Toyota "self-charging" hybrids

Edit: there wasn't 20 Billion allocated for charge points it was 20 million ! lol

drunkmonkey

Harris hasn't a patch on ye.

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

Most here thinks its a stupid idea

Think it's a great idea myself, huge Canadian service station group Petro are installing 50 of them

https://mobilesyrup.com/2019/02/13/petro-canada-canadian-coast-to-coast-ev-charging/

Those god awful franchises like Circle K, Maxol etc should be made put them in anyway

Yeah it's baffling why Garages won't install charge points , the new/upgraded garages on the N7 had the perfect opportunity but not a charge point in sight.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it's baffling why Garages won't install charge points , the new/upgraded garages on the N7 had the perfect opportunity but not a charge point in sight.

Not baffling at all really.... no money in it.
The outlay for the grid upgrade to ESB and then the cost of the rapid and ongoing maintenance. It makes no financial sense to add one off your own back.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it's baffling why Garages won't install charge points , the new/upgraded garages on the N7 had the perfect opportunity but not a charge point in sight.

A quick review of the IEVOA website and if I was building a garage I wouldn't let it near it


between the hourly posts about other electric cars blocking the charger, to the 2 hourly posts about someone complaining because it was blocked by petrol/diesel car, and then the 3 hourly posting because a PHEV has plugged in


Why would anyone bother? you would have staff blocked up all day trying to manage the bloody thing. Then everyone complaining at you about the cost per kWH....


Even if you did install the charger a lot of people dont have the manners to even put it back correctly and cause huge damage to it. Ask Nissan if you don't believe me....


The fact the IEVOA website is open to anyone search's does more damage than good. I have stopped posting on it because it shows up on my timeline. Then my friend would go in and see page after page of the above....why would anyone change to electric?

Haha Funny,


I have to say I'm really glad I no longer have a facebook account.

PaulKK

ForestFire wrote: »

Just notified of this review from one of my favourite car review channels. What a coincidence :-)

https://youtu.be/tI9vx7vtNas

Anyone else notice what seems to be terrible paint work on that Corolla? Orange peel anyone?

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

How much can it realistically fall?

Its not even the 20k market, the rich are a tough sale too

Look at Jaguar struggling to sell the I-Pace in the States

Tesla demand dropping already there

https://electrek.co/2019/02/16/jaguar-i-pace-financing-deal/

That's with a big incentive package for Jag, Tesla used most of its one

Governments will have to kill ICE through taxation for the EV to succeed, it can't compete otherwise

Fine for Norway but we cant afford to have revenue drop from fossil fuel sales at the pump and at the same time give out 10k subsidy for new EVs

If anyone wants an EV they should buy soon imo

We sold like 130k cars last year

If EV reached even 10% of that, which by late 20/21 should happen imo with VW going big

Thats 1.3 billion government is out of pocket

Thats not going to last

Jaguar just announced they are thinking about swapping all lines to electric after the huge success of the i-Pace


Electric is in early days, the uptake will coincide with the main manufacturers release patterns which is from 2020 onwards.

Eric Cartman

TBi wrote: »

I hate these attacking ads. Electric cars can’t satisfy everyone’s needs and these hybrids are more environmentally friendly than a diesel or petrol.

What do these ad makers want us to do? Drive a dirty diesel just because the hybrid tech isn’t perfect?

Why don’t we all just drive gas guzzling v8’s cuz what’s the point in a more efficient car anyway?

A brilliant idea.

creedp

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah it's baffling why Garages won't install charge points , the new/upgraded garages on the N7 had the perfect opportunity but not a charge point in sight.

Same with new garage at the City North Hotel on M1

DrPhilG

Had a Toyota dealer up north last night give me a sales pitch for a self charging hybrid, lol.

"the car charges from kinetic energy generated by the movement of the wheels"

The car can do 52% of ANY journey in EV mode only"

(later)

"the engine combusts petrol to power the battery"

Huh?

Silence...

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

Had a Toyota dealer up north last night give me a sales pitch for a self charging hybrid, lol.

"the car charges from kinetic energy generated by the movement of the wheels"

The car can do 52% of ANY journey in EV mode only"

(later)

"the engine combusts petrol to power the battery"

Huh?

Silence...

I do like the new RAV4 but you wonder where they get their numbers from


Like on the motors forum a few days back, what I can only guess is Honda salesman, was posting about CRV....seemingly 95% of your journey will be done on battery??????

roosterman71

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I do like the new RAV4 but you wonder where they get their numbers from


Like on the motors forum a few days back, what I can only guess is Honda salesman, was posting about CRV....seemingly 95% of your journey will be done on battery??????

Got a link to that thread by any chance?
I seen a video on Youtube before where they explained the workings of the Honda hybrid. It seems to be different to the Toyota setup. From memory, even on motorways the battery is powering the car with the engine off. I think they say 33% of the time the car is driven by the battery. I'll try dig out the video and link it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmMb45PPrmg

Shefwedfan

roosterman71 wrote: »

Got a link to that thread by any chance?
I seen a video on Youtube before where they explained the workings of the Honda hybrid. It seems to be different to the Toyota setup. From memory, even on motorways the battery is powering the car with the engine off. I think they say 33% of the time the car is driven by the battery. I'll try dig out the video and link it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmMb45PPrmg

It was on the main motors forum, I asked for the person to explain but got nothing back.....


33% and 95% is a bit of a gap...


The battery in the Honda would be similar to the RAV from what I can see, 1.X kWh.....how is it possible to drive a car 95% on battery unless you are driving 1.1km and the first km you do at 20kmph and stay on the battery

n97 mini

roosterman71 wrote: »

I think they say 33% of the time the car is driven by the battery.

Slight misinterpretation there. 33% of the driving modes (i.e. one out of three) is purely on battery.

How much time is spent on battery completely depends on the journey.

Mickeroo

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/toyota-s-focus-remains-on-hybrids-despite-rise-of-battery-electric-cars-1.3795133?mode=amp

More recently, the publicising of Toyota’s hybrid line-up as “self-charging” has seen feathers being ruffled again, this time the feathers of the electric carmakers who claim that such a phrase muddies the waters of the battery power and charging debate. Tormey says that, actually, it’s about educating the consumer, not confusing them. “We would have had people coming in to look at cars in dealerships, and when the word ‘hybrid’ was mentioned they immediately put their hands up and would say ‘I don’t want to be messing about with plugs or anything like that’ and they just wouldn’t discuss it further. So the ‘self-charging’ thing is about trying to communicate one of the core benefits of the hybrid powertrain, not to try and confuse people, nor put them off electric cars.”

So the ‘self-charging’ thing is about trying to communicate one of the core benefits of the hybrid powertrain, not to try and confuse people, nor put them off electric cars.”

Ha ha yeah right, I wonder has it anything to do with the fact Toyota have 0 electric cars and spent billions on Hydrogen R&D with nothing to show for it except 1 Hydrogen car that no one wants ?

Perhaps because the only have to offer hybrids or Petrol only ?

Both perhaps ?

lol

DrPhilG

The lads up in Ballymena have stopped taking the bait.

After claiming 52% of any journey on EV mode, denying and then confirming that the car just burns petrol to charge the battery, and best of all describing a Toyota hybrid as "an electric car with a petrol backup", they've now gone quiet and won't respond to any more questions.

Still can't believe they haven't just deleted the post even after one guy said he was screen grabbing their scandalous claims to go to the ASA.

KaneToad

ForestFire wrote: »

Just don't believe any of their marketing, this is solely designed to convince you how to buy their car, by whatever "legally acceptable" means they can.

Look at Nissians claim of 2 new cars for the price of 1.
Well not really, as you never have 2 cars at any stage.

My personal favourite is the radio ad, "Hyundai, the most googled car in Ireland".

I imagine people googling:
"Why did I buy a Hyundai"
"Why won't my Hyundai start"
" How to trick someone into buying my Hyundai"

Probably not the objective of the marketing team

(Ironically, I've no probs with Hyundai)

zilog_jones

DrPhilG wrote: »

The lads up in Ballymena have stopped taking the bait.

After claiming 52% of any journey on EV mode, denying and then confirming that the car just burns petrol to charge the battery, and best of all describing a Toyota hybrid as "an electric car with a petrol backup", they've now gone quiet and won't respond to any more questions.

I'd never trust anything a car salesman says, and I've never gone to a dealer looking at a car without already knowing more than the salesman. Obviously nothing has changed here

peposhi

Just got this one in my mail...

“I refer to your complaint regarding the above mentioned advertising.
The function of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland is to ensure that advertisers comply with the requirements of the Code of Standards for Advertising and Marketing Communications in Ireland. We are prepared to investigate complaints concerning advertisements that may be considered to be in breach of the Code.
When investigating complaints, we do not normally identify an individual consumer complainant to the advertisers, however, where complainants may have a relevant interest in the product or service being advertised, we may consider that, in the interests of providing necessary transparency to stakeholders, their identity be disclosed.
Before receipt of your complaint we were already in the process of investigating earlier complaints and have received a response from the advertisers. In their response, the advertisers have queried whether any of our complainants have some form of interest, other than as an individual consumer, in making their complaint because of the language used in the complaints. In view of this we are asking all complainants to clarify in what capacity they are lodging their complaint. In the light of this we would be grateful if you could advise us if you are involved in any lobby groups in the motoring sector or are you are involved professionally in the motoring industry. If so, please state the capacity on which you are making your complaint.
If it transpires that you have a professional interest in making a complaint then we would ask you to provide us with details, including the general subject matter of your professional activities, your general current area of professional expertise and the identity of the organisation you work with. Please note that any information disclosed by you regarding a potential interest will remain confidential until such time as we revert to you and seek your agreement to any steps that we may wish to take regarding your identity or potential interest in pursuing your complaint further.
I look forward to hearing from you in the matter.“

Now on to stretch my itchy fingers and put a nice answer from an EV enthusiast’s perspective feeling annoyed by misleading statements...

n97 mini

DrPhilG wrote: »

The lads up in Ballymena have stopped taking the bait.

After claiming 52% of any journey on EV mode, denying and then confirming that the car just burns petrol to charge the battery, and best of all describing a Toyota hybrid as "an electric car with a petrol backup", they've now gone quiet and won't respond to any more questions.

Still can't believe they haven't just deleted the post even after one guy said he was screen grabbing their scandalous claims to go to the ASA.

I see it here, and the threat to go to the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland. The ASAI don't have any jurisdiction over NI though...

peposhi

n97 mini wrote: »

I see it here, and the threat to go to the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland. The ASAI don't have any jurisdiction over NI though...

Page not available

DrPhilG

peposhi wrote: »

Page not available

Go to Curtis Toyota Ballymena Facebook page and check their event listing from February 19th. Only post on their page that has 30+ comments.

KCross

peposhi wrote: »

Just got this one in my mail...

“I refer to your complaint regarding the above mentioned advertising.
The function of the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland is to ensure that advertisers comply with the requirements of the Code of Standards for Advertising and Marketing Communications in Ireland. We are prepared to investigate complaints concerning advertisements that may be considered to be in breach of the Code.....
I look forward to hearing from you in the matter.“

Now on to stretch my itchy fingers and put a nice answer from an EV enthusiast’s perspective feeling annoyed by misleading statements...

While I dont like Toyota's catchphrase I'm wondering if they have actually told any lies or been misleading in any way.

Technically the car does charge itself. They just have not specifically said its with dino juice but I dont think anyone needs to have it explained that its still a petrol car... put another way does anyone think that if they buy a self-charging hybrid that it will run forever without any fuel being added.... i think not.... so have they really broken any advertising standard?

I'm not sure they have, but I'm interested to hear what part of the statement is misleading in your eyes?

I think Toyota will just say that they dont need to state the obvious... i.e. it still needs petrol and its inherent in the name... hybrid.

It's just clever marking to attract the lazy side of people by making it sound as if plugging in a car is bad or in some way difficult or a chore no one wants to do.

They did emphasis that "and you don't have to plug it in"

Nissan, Hyundai etc could have an add that says "3 times cheaper to fuel than a hybrid" "much less maintenance" etc.

Self charging makes it sound good as if the battery is charging by some free means.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

It's just clever marking to attract the lazy side of people by making it sound as if plugging in a car is bad or in some way difficult or a chore no one wants to do.

They did emphasis that "and you don't have to plug it in"

Nissan, Hyundai etc could have an add that says "3 times cheaper to fuel than a hybrid" "much less maintenance" etc.

Self charging makes it sound good as if the battery is charging by some free means.

Right, but its not a lie though. Its factually correct to say "you dont have to plug it in" and they are entitled to an opinion that that is better.... eventhough they didnt expressly say that.

It is just marketing and playing to their strengths. We may not agree/like the fact that they have not invested in BEV but thats their choice.

bp_me

Deleted User wrote: »

It's just clever marking to attract the lazy side of people by making it sound as if plugging in a car is bad or in some way difficult or a chore no one wants to do.

It also appears to be working though. I've had more than one person ask me if "that's a self charging one" and ask how it was.

It does work, I see far more than any EV on the road but that's mainly down to lack of proper charging infrastructure and also lack of proper education in regard to electric cars you'd be surprised how many people think they can't go further than 80 Km or faster than 100 Km/h or take 20 hrs to charge.

zilog_jones

And those are the same kind of people who think all hybrids "have to be plugged in", which is why Toyota started this nonsense. The general public will get to understand these things better... eventually.

zilog_jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

And those are the same kind of people who think all hybrids "have to be plugged in", which is why Toyota started this nonsense. The general public will get to understand these things better... eventually.

Eventually is right..... lol

At least 1 hybrid is 1 less diesel so that's good and less noisy rattling soot boxes in our towns.

creedp

Would agree. Any car that has regenerative braking and a battery has 'self-charging' capability, including hybrids, PHEVs and BEVs.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

While I dont like Toyota's catchphrase I'm wondering if they have actually told any lies or been misleading in any way.

Technically the car does charge itself. They just have not specifically said its with dino juice but I dont think anyone needs to have it explained that its still a petrol car... put another way does anyone think that if they buy a self-charging hybrid that it will run forever without any fuel being added.... i think not.... so have they really broken any advertising standard?

I'm not sure they have, but I'm interested to hear what part of the statement is misleading in your eyes?

I think Toyota will just say that they dont need to state the obvious... i.e. it still needs petrol and its inherent in the name... hybrid.

Just saw one of their ads again for the CH-R and it threw up “50% electric”.

Is that new or did I miss that before?

50% electric is possible but clearly misleading unless they have some small print that explains it. A lot of people would interpret that as “it’s half electric” but it’s far from that.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Just saw one of their ads again for the CH-R and it threw up “50% electric”.

Is that new or did I miss that before?

50% electric is possible but clearly misleading unless they have some small print that explains it. A lot of people would interpret that as “it’s half electric” but it’s far from that.

The spoofer dealer I trolled on Facebook claimed that 52% of "any" journey would be done without the engine combusting any fuel.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

The spoofer dealer I trolled on Facebook claimed that 52% of "any" journey would be done without the engine combusting any fuel.

LOL! Linky?

samjames

I did not read everything here but would you still not be better off with a fully electric car and there is still VRT to be paid on these

Shefwedfan

samjames wrote: »

I did not read everything here but would you still not be better off with a fully electric car and there is still VRT to be paid on these

Depends on what driving you are doing

Toyota might be annoying but their technology and cars are good....for some drivers the hybrid is perfect

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Depends on what driving you are doing

Toyota might be annoying but their technology and cars are good....for some drivers the hybrid is perfect

Sure, those that "don't want to plug in"

Or those that want to experience more running costs.

Or those who "don't want to run up the electric bill" that is already expensive

Lol


The sad fact is that Toyota are conning people and doing it well, this technology goes back to 1998 when Toyota released the first hybrid and has not changed all that much, more powerful motor much the same battery, Toyota are a joke.

At the very least they should have a PHEV with decent size Li battery.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, those that "don't want to plug in"

Or those that want to experience more running costs.

Or those who "don't want to run up the electric bill" that is already expensive

Lol


The sad fact is that Toyota are conning people and doing it well, this technology goes back to 1998 when Toyota released the first hybrid and has not changed all that much, more powerful motor much the same battery, Toyota are a joke.

At the very least they should have a PHEV with decent size Li battery.

People in apartments, for a number of reasons people dont have access to charger. You can hardly use the public network because is it useless....PHEV needs a charger



Whats the alternative? buy a BMW with a strap on small petrol engine? without charging the battery it is pointless technology as well. You carrying around a huge battery to charge with a tiny engine.



Toyota technology will become redundant soon, but at the moment it is far from redundant and they are the only company who has successful removed diesel off the Irish roads

I don't know why people continuously knock the Rex, it's an amazing piece of engineering that actually works.

But yeah you're right they still need to charge it.

However I seriously doubt Toyota's lack of EV or proper PHEV is anything to do with the thoughts of apartment owners with no charging.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know why people continuously knock the Rex, it's an amazing piece of engineering that actually works.

But yeah you're right they still need to charge it.

However I seriously doubt Toyota's lack of EV or proper PHEV is anything to do with the thoughts of apartment owners with no charging.

I don't knock REX, I just dont see point anymore with larger batteries....


I dont knock toyota either. I have family with a number of them and they find it great but they are due to swap in the next 15-18 months and all looking at ful electric. When they bought the hybrid it was best solution.



I would love a BEV RAV4 but not available yet. Would I buy the hybrid, potentially because it is exactly what I am looking for but i know after a few months of filling it with petrol it would drive me nuts

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't knock REX, I just dont see point anymore with larger batteries....

This the point............... and yes , batteries are getting larger but the problem still exists, they still need to be charged when away from home and more and more people are buying electric cars and the problem will get worse before it gets better.

Atlantic Dawn

Deleted User wrote: »

This the point............... and yes , batteries are getting larger but the problem still exists, they still need to be charged when away from home and more and more people are buying electric cars and the problem will get worse before it gets better.

There's a big need for a €10 per first hour over full charge and then a €10 a minute charge afterwards to free up charge points, that's the key to having access to all to charge points and not Nissan Leaf owners on 3 bars at 7.30 am leaving their cars on charge until they come home from work and doing this 5 days a week like a selfish ultra w@nker.

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There's a big need for a €10 per first hour over full charge and then a €10 a minute charge afterwards to free up charge points, that's the key to having access to all to charge points and not Nissan Leaf owners on 3 bars at 7.30 am leaving their cars on charge until they come home from work and doing this 5 days a week like a selfish ultra w@nker.

What I'd like to see happen is a penalty for every 30 mins after the car is charged to 100 on the AC points.

On DC, after 90% car disconnects, a lot of cars now charge quite fast to 90%.

Every minute the car is left plugged in the owner gets charged a high premium.

Shefwedfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This the point............... and yes , batteries are getting larger but the problem still exists, they still need to be charged when away from home and more and more people are buying electric cars and the problem will get worse before it gets better.

We live in a tiny island, a 64kWh battery getting topped up at night and the odd long trip is not going to put a huge load on system

People are using and blocking as it’s free...make it cheaper to charge at home and see what the network is like then

Shefwedfan

Anyway off point, if you don’t or can’t have home Charger then Toyota is great option

You're an early riser for a Saturday ! lol

There are a lot more electrics on the road , this is what is and has already put a big strain on the public charging network, so when you need it you can't depend on it , 400 Km range or not.

The ESB claim they will introduce charges later this year , so yes, it will help but electric car sales are growing and it will be a few years before the network is in a decent state. A few single chargers dotted around the "tiny Island " is no good to anyone but as I keep saying to People, use the AC network as much as possible which reduced the need to fast charge in the first place but unfortunately they are a lot busier now too, thankfully the AC Network is also to get investment.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Anyway off point, if you don’t or can’t have home Charger then Toyota is great option

Yeah but it's Toyota's only option , I bet most People who own a Hybrid have home charging.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah but it's Toyota's only option , I bet most People who own a Hybrid have home charging.

Up since 6 with kids but it is Sunday



Toyota have one option but I don't see an issue with that. They had stopped making diesel engines so why try selling someone else's engine.....


Hyundai have too many options and I think they are confusing their customers. Do they really need a Hybrid/PHEV and BEV Ioniq?

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Up since 6 with kids but it is Sunday



Toyota have one option but I don't see an issue with that. They had stopped making diesel engines so why try selling someone else's engine.....


Hyundai have too many options and I think they are confusing their customers. Do they really need a Hybrid/PHEV and BEV Ioniq?

Yes it is Sunday, oh well , just finished 3 night shifts, one more to go !

Hyundai could do with a larger battery PHEV and the engine could be used like the Rex in the i3.