Have you ever experienced true corruption?

harry Bailey esq

Nothing wrong with greasing the wheels a little.

Wheeliebin30

wally79 wrote: »

Experienced it very recently

Went to the bank to apply for a mortgage and the well dressed lady, without even a hint of subtlety, told me I’d need a 10% “deposit” to get a mortgage.

From speaking to others I was lucky as some were charged up to 20%. I got some kind of introductory offer designed to pull you into the web

20% if you’re a second time buyer.

10% if first.

Well known and not one bit corrupt.

wally79

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

20% if you’re a second time buyer.

10% if first.

Well known and not one bit corrupt.

Whoosh

arybvtcw0eolkf

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you never heard about the lads on UN service selling their allocations of duty free booze to the local clubs? Quite a big operation at some locations, so I'm told.

I don't even know what that means tbh.

Do you mean the duty free you're entitled to bring home from oversea's?. Its what, a bottle of spirits and two hundred cigarettes?.

Seriously I've no idea what you mean, as regards having never heard of something I go by this saying

If you haven't seen it with your own eyes or heard it with your own ears, don't invent it in your small mind and spread it with you big mouth.

I'm very proud of my job and the work we do and I don't listen to tittle tattle or spread it.

JohnnyFlash

Aryanna Tangy Nostril wrote: »

Seriously I've no idea what you mean, as regards having never heard of something I go by this saying

If you haven't seen it with your own eyes or heard it with your own ears, don't invent it in your small mind and spread it with you big mouth.

I'm very proud of my job and the work we do and I don't listen to tittle tattle or spread it.

Not a great saying, dude. Bit long-winded and not very memorable.

As for the army, let’s not pretend it’s a difficult job. I know a fair few fellas who did tours. Most of the time is spent chatting and getting a tan. It’s toy soldier stuff.

Del2005

Family members of the organisers of the local GAA/football club win the club lotto too often for luck.


People asking tradespeople for the "cash" price for a job.

heldel00

mikemac2 wrote: »

Applying for internal jobs that were already filled but they had to interview a few losers to tick a box.

Been done to me and seen it done to others

Im not a teacher but think teachers have this worst of all.

I was applying for a teaching job. My 90 yr old grand-aunt was in a nursing home and was asking me, during a visit how the job hunt was going. (Back almost 18 years ago btw)
I was telling her about different ones i had seen advertised. She said "oh Fr. Drinkygambler is parish priest there".
He used to be her priest but had moved back years before, closer to his home place.
Anyway, fast forward two months she rang me because she heard the job hunt was still going on. When she asked about the interview with Fr. Drinkygambler and i told her i didn't get the job, her response was "well that is the useless fúcker and me after sending him €50!"

Closest I've ever got to corruption!

celtic_oz

all you have to see :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpko_hXWb7Q

padd b1975

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not a great saying, dude. Bit long-winded and not very memorable.

As for the army, let’s not pretend it’s a difficult job. I know a fair few fellas who did tours. Most of the time is spent chatting and getting a tan. It’s toy soldier stuff.

That lot are still bitching about having to camp out for a couple of nights (in the middle of summer!!) during the Pope's visit.

Dedicated and professional my arse.

Remember the deluge of compensation claims that were made because their guns made a loud noise when fired?

A complete laughing stock.

Pintman Paddy Losty

padd b1975 wrote: »

That lot are still bitching about having to camp out for a couple of nights (in the middle of summer!!) during the Pope's visit.

Dedicated and professional my arse.

Remember the deluge of compensation claims that were made because their guns made a loud noise when fired?

A complete laughing stock.

The overseas trips are a total joke. Lads out there getting scuttered on bottles of Al Maza and working on their tan all day.

That hurler fella Colin Fenelly exposed it all. Said he was bored silly both at home and over there.

Mad_maxx

Del2005 wrote: »

Family members of the organisers of the local GAA/football club win the club lotto too often for luck.


People asking tradespeople for the "cash" price for a job.

Half the tradesmen won't do the job for anything but cash

Speedsie

arctictree wrote: »

On the other hand I have done business in various African countries and the scale of corruption is really something to behold. It goes from the top all the way down.

Corruption is so rife in Western Africa that bribes were listed as a monthly expense in an episode of Nigeria's Dragon's Den!

https://www.cips.org/en/supply-management/opinion/2009/november/pitching-for-bribery-im-out/

Supernintento Chalmers

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The overseas trips are a total joke. Lads out there getting scuttered on bottles of Al Maza and working on their tan all day.

That hurler fella Colin Fenelly exposed it all. Said he was bored silly both at home and over there.

The Irish Army, ya, real professional outfit 🙄
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/soldier-under-investigation-after-rifle-discharged-in-prisoner-escort-convoy-37821095.html

And I can confirm that the aforementioned booze scam is real. My cousin Ghazif has a boozer over there and has been getting supplied by Irish Army lads for years.

keepalive213

Some years back a friend applied for a council mortgage to renovate an old house. After many months he still had not received any answer from them.
In the meantime the local builders providers was giving him tick so he carried on with the job.
He bumped into the manager one day who asked him about the bill and he explained about the mortgage application, when I get paid so do you etc...
Manager was also on the county council.
Mortgage came through few days later.

Your Face

I've a 50 here if you'll make this thread go away. Good lad.

Trigger Happy

I set up a service centre for my company in Morocco many years ago. We shipped a load of service parts in but customs held them up.
We had 120 new hires waiting to start training but sitting idle as no hardware.
So I end up in the customs office in Rabat trying to get the product released.
I ended up giving in to the demand of the clearance customs fella for about a hundred and fifty euro. Still raging to this day.

Drumpot

Corruption is Dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power.

Ireland’s financial regulator publicly asked financial institutions to engage in share price manipulation. That’s an illegal act. Financial institutions loaned money to each other to cook their books and nobody was held accountantable for this illegal practice. Bailing out banks and financial institutions is a corruption of the normal laws of business that everybody else has to abide by but since it became the norm people forgot its a corrupt concept. Iceland chose a more honest method in dealing with their banks. You can rationalize and argue reasons why nationizing banks had to be done but it was a corruption of the system.

Corruption is part and parcel of most countries and a lot of it is right in front of our faces. People lower the bar “we aren’t Nigeria” or quote some survey or something that shows how great we are but normalized corruption is hard to quantify. That is corruption that happens but is actually accepted as just part and parcel of the system.

My house was built on a flood plain that has had flooding issues. The OPW strongly advised agaisnt zoning this land for building and yet politicians zoned it for building. Is that honest conduct, to dismiss professional , informed advice for some other reasons? People will continually lower the bar on what constitutes corruption either through ignorance or a desire to not really reflect on the reality of this country. I think ignorance is preferable and when I choose not to think about it I do feel better.

I’ve had a very close family member robbed by a business partner. The banks facilitated the laundering of money. The fraud squad didn’t have the resources to catch the guy , who is regularly seen boasting about his exploits. The banks clearly facilitated the laundering , it was never in question but since the case had to go through the high court, the banks took it as far as they could Because they hoped the person taking the case would go bankrupt and run out of money! Even though the banks eventually owned up to their role , this person was financially ruined and never recovered. They died 4 days after receiving a letter to reposess their house after years of stress and pressure from banks. Had the banks effectively not laundered money this person would of had a completely different life and may actually be alive today.

I know a businessman who works in mental health rehabilitation field. He’s told me of examples where a person within the HSE was sending sick people on the public system to the UK for certain services at double the cost to the state, simply because they didn’t agree with the Irish pricing! ( basically a “f*ck you decision!). They told me about a proposal they told Mary Harney ( I was at an event where harney opened up one of their business centers) about which would save the public coffers 25 million , free up 100 hospital beds and would offer better rehabilitation for long term patients. But it didn’t happen because the hospital didn’t want to lose any control of it’s patients and red tape prevented them from taking it forward. He told me even more distressing stories of the upper management of the HSE that would make your skin crawl.

I’m sure if I thought about it a bit more I could think of more examples. I havent even looked at public service and politics but since nobody is responsible for anything in those fields I don’t see the point . I’d say most people see instances of corruption more frequent then they realize but they aren’t consciously paying attention.

cajonlardo

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The overseas trips are a total joke. Lads out there getting scuttered on bottles of Al Maza and working on their tan all day.

That hurler fella Colin Fenelly exposed it all. Said he was bored silly both at home and over there.

The Irish Army, ya, real professional outfit 🙄
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/soldier-under-investigation-after-rifle-discharged-in-prisoner-escort-convoy-37821095.html

And I can confirm that the aforementioned booze scam is real. My cousin Ghazif has a boozer over there and has been getting supplied by Irish Army lads for years.

Negligent discharges obviously shouldn't happen. The matter is being investigated and I can tell you that if the soldier is guilty he will face serious consequences.
Can you name an army that hasn't had negligent discharges BTW?

As fo the usual boards expert posting about hearing claims....
Less than 1 per cent of personnel who served in the defense forces lodged claims.

Given that the department were provided with the peer reviewed medical studies, as early as 1950, proving the damage to hearing and given that the civil servants couldn't bother their holes implementing the safety measures Every other modern army had in place it was inevitable there would be legal action. Soldiers were forbidden to provide their own hearing defenders.

As for Fennelly?
Lazy good for nothing twat who couldn't even get himself an nco course in 6 years and by his own admission spent his time hiding. Never applied for a single course to better himself and expected special treatment every step of his princess way.
Plenty of other great gaa army lads playing at County level who weren't bored in the army

Booze scams?
Never heard of them until now but provided theft isn't involved I could personally care less

AndrewJRenko

Aryanna Tangy Nostril wrote: »

I don't even know what that means tbh.

Do you mean the duty free you're entitled to bring home from oversea's?. Its what, a bottle of spirits and two hundred cigarettes?.

It was friend in Cyprus in the late 80s who told me about it - a fairly serious operation, they had their own van and everything. They got an allocation of duty free, something like one bottle every two weeks. They pooled their resources and had a serious little business selling half price booze to the pubs and clubs.

stampydmonkey wrote: »

Am have you? It is most definitely rife in the public sector. I could name 30+ people who have jobs because of who they know and not because they are the best candidate by a long shot.

Presumably you were in the room for all 30+ of the interviews, right? Because that's the only way you can judge how well or badly people performed at interviews.

I've been on the receiving end of claims of corruption and favoritism in recruitment and in procurement, when the truth was a bit less dramatic - just that one person had screwed up an interview, or a supplier had done a crap proposal. You'd be amazed at how many suppliers can't read basic instructions in a Request For Tenders.

Del2005 wrote: »

Family members of the organisers of the local GAA/football club win the club lotto too often for luck.

Does the draw not take place in public view?

Drumpot wrote: »

My house was built on a flood plain that has had flooding issues. The OPW strongly advised agaisnt zoning this land for building and yet politicians zoned it for building. Is that honest conduct, to dismiss professional , informed advice for some other reasons?

Dismissing professional informed advice happens all the time here. Just look at all the barstool experts here on boards that know how to fix everything and anything because they read an article on the journal?

Suckit wrote: »

Pretty sure this was corruption.
Local family, the father is friends with a retired (still very active) TD, they have been involved in plenty of fundraisers etc. for the replacement TD.
The children were looking to buy houses around 2006 ish.
One of the offspring got on a housing list (family fairly wealthy and from a reasonably wealthy area of the locality).
Got a house on the housing list pretty quickly.
Under the agreement, they had to live there for 10 -12 years (I think) before they could ever rent it themselves or move out etc..
Within a month (after painting it and decorating it), they were renting it out.

Why didn't you report the renting out of a Council house? What's the old saying about how all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not a great saying, dude. Bit long-winded and not very memorable.

Unlike some, I wasn't dropped on my head as a baby.. Its perfectly easy to remember.

But fire away, I won't be getting involved here so take the final word.

Woke Hogan

Aryanna Tangy Nostril wrote: »

Unlike some, I wasn't dropped on my head as a baby.. Its perfectly easy to remember.

But fire away, I won't be getting involved here so take the final word.

What an awful thing to say to someone. You should be ashamed.

razorblunt

There’s a reason Cork Airport is built where it is.

JohnnyFlash

Aryanna Tangy Nostril wrote: »

Unlike some, I wasn't dropped on my head as a baby.. Its perfectly easy to remember.

But fire away, I won't be getting involved here so take the final word.

Less of the personals please. All I was saying was that it wasn’t exactly a memorable phrase. I’d suggest you chill out and stop taking everything as a personal slight on your character.

The Tetrarch

In Zambia you needed your car engine/chassis number for some payment (motor tax?), and the engine/chassis number has to be inspected.
But the official can not see the engine number when he inspects it. It is too dirty, or he can not make out a few numbers. You have to take the car to a garage (named by him) where they will inspect the number (for a fee).

A courier company in Dublin received nine boxes of books I ordered from the UK. They would not deliver the boxes to me as they said the address was incomplete (on all nine boxes?). For some reason the invoice for the books (with the same address as on the boxes) arrived at my house without a problem.
That delivery company is well know for their "incomplete address" story.

Franz Von Peppercorn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Presumably you were in the room for all 30+ of the interviews, right? Because that's the only way you can judge how well or badly people performed at interviews.

I've been on the receiving end of claims of corruption and favoritism in recruitment and in procurement, when the truth was a bit less dramatic - just that one person had screwed up an interview, or a supplier had done a crap proposal. You'd be amazed at how many suppliers can't read basic instructions in a Request For Tenders.

Solution here is you recuse yourself from any interview or contract with anybody you know.

Dismissing professional informed advice happens all the time here. Just look at all the barstool experts here on boards that know how to fix everything and anything because they read an article on the journal?

We’re not in charge of anything here. And disquiet with badly run systems despite the supposed expertise of those in charge is justified.

Naos

Aryanna Tangy Nostril wrote: »

Not really at a high official level.

I've seen some in Martial Arts circles, usually centered around easy grading's for favors done.

I like the Judo grading system in Ireland for this reason. (Not sure if it's different worldwide?)

I know you know Mak, but for the non-Judokas - "For white, yellow, orange and green belt gradings are held in the practitioners club and are based on demonstration of a syllabus and kata. For promotion to blue and brown the judoka must compete at a national grading against players of their own rank and win at least two fights by ippon or wazari. To achieve black belt a judoka must earn 100 points i.e. 10 points for every ippon or waza-ari victory against a brown belt."

Muahahaha

Drumpot wrote: »

Corruption is part and parcel of most countries and a lot of it is right in front of our faces. People lower the bar “we aren’t Nigeria” or quote some survey or something that shows how great we are but normalized corruption is hard to quantify. That is corruption that happens but is actually accepted as just part and parcel of the system.

That's very true, anytime the subject of corruption in Ireland is addressed the old canand of "we aren't Nigeria" always pops up. Thats because in African countries corruption is highly visible and even a tourist holidaying there is likely to come across if they are driving and pulled over by the police. We dont have that type of corruption here but what we do have is corruption at the very highest levels which is invisible to the vast majority of the population, hence why when they release the global corruption index every year Ireland always scores well. The index is only a survey of people's perception of corruption so it really isn't set any kind of scientific basis when you are asking the general population who are not in a position to witness high level corruption which often involves tens of millions of euro.

It does go on here- a few examples, back in the Tiger years the State bought agricultural land that wasn't zoned for anything but farming. At best it had a value of €2m but the price paid was just short of €30m. I know for a fact that the Minister involved was a direct relation of the commercial property director who valued the land. What I don't know is if money ever switched hands but would be shocked if it didn't. The farmer got the deal of the century so someones back must of got scratched.

We all know about Haughey but what many don't realise is that he was arguably the most corrupt politician within Europe during the 1980's. His salary as Taoiseach was around IR£35,000 and upon his death his estate was €42million, it does not compute in any way, sense or form. The Haughey-Ben Dunne corruption was only the tip of the iceberg, Dunne paid him circa IR£100,000 which was small fry in relation to his accumulated wealth. I've always felt that Haugheys biggest trick was when Ireland devalued the punt by 10% on a couple of occasions. It would be hard to fathom Haughey not engaging in insider trading to take advantage of him re-valuing an entire currency. Coiincidentally it was around that time that some Irish businessmen became multi millionaires in the field of currency trading. They are billionaires today. Are the two events connected? It is not possible to say for sure but we do know that Haughey never missed a trick to line his pockets and a currency re-valuation is a sure fire way to do that and make millions literally over night.

It still goes on today at a high level. There was a Prime Time Investigates program on a few years back about procurement within the HSE where by the HSE manager overpaid for items to the tune of €500,000. I would think that corruption in procurement for the State happens regular enough, its all nod and wink stuff and very difficult to prove or catch out.

opfleet

Aryanna Tangy Nostril wrote: »

In my own job (army) I've never seen anything even close to dodgy. We're a professional disciplined force, it just wouldn't happen (either at home or oversea's).

Might want to open your eyes and ears then. No offence, but I was in the army for a short while and in that time I seen bullying and one person getting kicked out over malicious lies. There is corruption and bad apples in every job. As for a "professional disciplined force", there have been many headlines over the years of discrimination, harassment etc..Did you see the headline in the papers today about the soldier's gun going off on Spar! The reason why people don't have an interest in the IDF is cause they don't have any power over the public on a day to day basis like AGS which is why there is an obsession with AGS and politicians in this country.

Hotblack Desiato

stampydmonkey wrote: »

Am have you?

Yes and I've been through several promotion competitions.

It is most definitely rife in the public sector.

I have never seen or heard of anything corrupt and I don't know anyone who has, either, and I'll be 25 years in this year having worked in several different organisations during that time.

Hotblack Desiato

the_pen_turner wrote: »

he is actually very accurate.
a lot of those jobs are filled way before the job is advertised. i have seen i several times in the last few years. i appplied for 2 of them and didnt bother on a few more.

RIght, so which jobs were these then? If you know something is wrong and say nothing you are part of the problem.

Old diesel

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I think you're confusing corruption with incompetence there.

I'm reading it as the developer just wanting someone with letters after their name to sign off required paperwork.

The new engineer might be totally useless with concrete but he was wanted to his ability to sign paper.

If what you want is to sign off on **** houses - then the less the engineer knows about proper building the better.

Ninthlife

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

RIght, so which jobs were these then? If you know something is wrong and say nothing you are part of the problem.

I'm with Hotblack on this one.

Id love to know how and when. Open public sector recruitment is pretty transparent and frequently subjected to audit.

People who say sure a certain individual got the job everyone knew he'd get it. Maybe they were coached to reach that particular position. Showed a level of aptitude or interest and desire to get it this gets noticed and those in that position help you through mock interviews etc

Its not corruption but good management

bizidea

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

RIght, so which jobs were these then? If you know something is wrong and say nothing you are part of the problem.

So who do you say it to someone else with in the public sector that knows its going on

Ninthlife

bizidea wrote: »

So who do you say it to someone else with in the public sector that knows its going on

Report it to http://www.cpsa.ie/en/[url][/url]

AndrewJRenko

Muahahaha wrote: »

It still goes on today at a high level. There was a Prime Time Investigates program on a few years back about procurement within the HSE where by the HSE manager overpaid for items to the tune of €500,000. I would think that corruption in procurement for the State happens regular enough, its all nod and wink stuff and very difficult to prove or catch out.

I think it was buyers in St Vincent's Hospital (public sector) and Beacon Hospital (private sector) that were featured in that show, not the HSE.

So where is it going on today at high level?

AndrewJRenko

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Solution here is you recuse yourself from any interview or contract with anybody you know.

Nothing to do with 'anyone I knew' - just people who didn't make the grade in recruitment and procurement looking for anyone else to blame for their own poor results.

AndrewJRenko

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

We’re not in charge of anything here. And disquiet with badly run systems despite the supposed expertise of those in charge is justified.

Disquiet with poor experiences is often justified and valid.

Thinking that you know how to run HSE or AGS or ETB or whatever despite having zero experience in the field is not valid.

be interested to know if people are talking about political appointments or actual recruitment in the public sector

be hugely surprised if there was anything more than a handful of the latter over the lifetime of PAS that wouldnt stand up to the highest level of scrutiny

the inability to get selected people through PAS is actually a major problem in getting good people progressed in the system! but as a system, and im more than a decade in it, its pretty unquestionably neutral and transparent and impossible to game

appointments that are made more locally, i dunno. council appointments and the like.

but I never saw an appointment of any type yet that didnt leave more people unhappy than happy, and ireland being ireland its not like anyone looked at the job spec or the qualifications or anything. just straight into the usual "the system is stupid" or "the process is corrupt"

id suppose id also draw a line between influencing a selection to ensure the right person gets in (good management and service to the taxpayer, within the rules of course) and actual corruption (personal gain from it despite a worse result for the taxpayer).

PAS doesnt even allow for the former, and yet its how most private sector recruitment occurs. its a major constraint on public sector efficiency but hey must ensure transparency eh chaps.

bizidea

Ninthlife wrote: »

Report it to http://www.cpsa.ie/en/[url][/url]

So I wonder what they would do if you gave them the names of people that were going to be appointed to postitions before interviews had even been held.I'd have a feeling it would be fek all

Ninthlife

bizidea wrote: »

So I wonder what they would do if you gave them the names of people that were going to be appointed to postitions before interviews had even been held.I'd have a feeling it would be fek all

Well as the Ombudsman they are obliged to act on information given and the recruitment process used would be looked into

BeerWolf

We see it all the time in our ****ing useless Government, current big one being the Children's Hospital.

bizidea

Ninthlife wrote: »

Well as the Ombudsman they are obliged to act on information given and the recruitment process used would be looked into

I'm sure at the end of the day the ombudsman would find the whole process was hunky dory

Ninthlife

bizidea wrote: »

I'm sure at the end of the day the ombudsman would find the whole process was hunky dory

Regardless of what they would or would not find some people are just convinced its all corruption and nepotism

RobbingBandit

Nepotism parish pump and cronyism jobs for the lads nixers bullshirt in this country is sickening

Union Mafia Bastardy is ripe for a cleansing the quid pro quo systems are disgustingly outdated. Irish politics is a turncoats dream I'd impeach the lot of em single term then out for 2 elections then you can run again no more tables for the rats to nest at greedy ****ers serve themselves and their friends interest alone.

bizidea

Ninthlife wrote: »

Regardless of what they would or would not find some people are just convinced its all corruption and nepotism

Thats exactly what it is

AndrewJRenko

BeerWolf wrote: »

We see it all the time in our ****ing useless Government, current big one being the Children's Hospital.

Tell us more please. Who's on the take, and who's making the payments?

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Plenty ...

Yes?

Ninthlife

bizidea wrote: »

Thats exactly what it is

But youve given zero proof to back up your claim. Your perception is one of corruption and nepotism but that doesnt make it true

Drumpot

Ninthlife wrote: »

Regardless of what they would or would not find some people are just convinced its all corruption and nepotism

I remember one therapy session I was going on a rant about politics, corruption and the unfair things I have seen over the years. I said “listen I know I’m probably wrong or over the top but....” and the very respected and well known therapist stopped me. He said “the problem isn’t that you are wrong it’s that you are mostly right and you can’t let it go. My job isn’t to help you fix the problems that you have highlighted , it’s to help you live in that world that exists”.

It also ties in with the phrase “would you rather be happy or would you rather be right?”. I’ve chosen to be happy in as much ignorance as I can and my life has changed more for the better. Most people don’t care and that apathy allows corruption to thrive.

I don’t presume that it’s all corrupt but the two people I know who were politicians both said it’s a horrible pit. In the absence of knowing for sure I choose to try and not give a crap. But if you held a gun to my head and said that I had to decide if the system is generally corrupt free or had thriving corruption with vested interests , not public interests, being prioritised more often then not, I would bet my life on the latter.

Stephen15

Crock Rock wrote: »

When travelling through in Lagos, I was asked several times for a "mineral" (small monetary bribe) to expedite bag searches etc. In Egypt I was asked several times for "Baksheesh" for similar things and to "skip" official queues.


We don't see petty corruption like that here.

And that would because Nigeria and Eygpt would be regarded as third world countries. Rampant blantly obivious corruption like what you mentioned in most western countries wouldn't generally be commonplace.

For example Italy is often regarded as one of the most corrupt countries in Western Europe much more so than Ireland but I did not come across any obivious corruption when I travelled there.