Galway's traffic issues

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

Is this not a contradiction?
I never use it on the bike and use this junction every day going to and from Parkmore. Littered with glass.

Quite well done. Not really well done. Spot the difference.

youngrun

youngrun wrote: »

Train line appraisals for Tuam -Galway and Curraghline- Galway

You were doing great but lost the plot at the end

jjpep

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Quite well done. Not really well done. Spot the difference.

Quite well done = not usable on a bike and not usable by people at night.

What would would bad or poor be like? Flooded with man eating sharks? peppered with landmines?:D:D:D

cgcsb

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And a huge number of people who drive thru the city don't start or end their commute in the city so are excluded, making those oft-quoted statistics meaningless.

That's not true, inter regional trips were considered in the modelling, and surprise surprise the amount of trips going from Conemara to the East of the county and beyond are minute, due to the lack of population and trip generators in Conemara surprisingly. The vast majority of trips within the City are going to/from the city, and most commute lengths are short, sub 5km, i.e. a leisurely cycle.

cgcsb

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Repeating something does not make it true. There is no way on earth that the vast majority of commute lengths are within 5kms. There are 1000’s of people commuting into the city who all have commutes in excess of 5km to begin with, anyone cross the city exceeds 5km etc etc.

Incorrect, the relevant appendix in the Systra/Jacobs study shows the trip lengths. This ahs been posted on this thread many times.

Mrs OBumble

cgcsb wrote: »

That's not true, inter regional trips were considered in the modelling, and surprise surprise the amount of trips going from Conemara to the East of the county and beyond are minute, due to the lack of population and trip generators in Conemara surprisingly. The vast majority of trips within the City are going to/from the city, and most commute lengths are short, sub 5km, i.e. a leisurely cycle.

The number of trips from Mayo, north Galway, Roscommon, east Galway, south Galway, Clare and Limerick, through the city and into Parkmore is *not* minute.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The number of trips from Mayo, north Galway, Roscommon, east Galway, south Galway, Clare and Limerick, through the city and into Parkmore is *not* minute.

What are you basing that opinion on?
None of those places require you to pass through the city unless you work West of the river. Most jobs are on the East in places like the aforementioned Parkmore.

cgcsb

McGiver wrote: »

Lack of over and underpasses for pedestrians is obviously a problem in Galway. It's evident straight away to the anyone coming from a larger city.

The 1960s called, they want their solutions back. Haven't many cities across Europe been removing them over the past decade.

cgcsb

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The number of trips from Mayo, north Galway, Roscommon, east Galway, south Galway, Clare and Limerick, through the city and into Parkmore is *not* minute.

Yes they are. Here's the link....again

https://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Appendix%20A%20Transport%20Demand.pdf

So we're back to square one, the vast majority of trips are short in length, mostly within cycling distance, the number of inter regional trips are small, with almost all trips starting and/or finishing in the City.

No doubt we'll have the same posters re-iterate that they know a lad who drives 20km and public transport wouldn't suit him, at that single data point will be sufficient for that person to ignore all available data on the topic.

spurscormac

While I can get door to door in a car at peak hours, in half the time it takes public transport, even though I'm sitting in a traffic jam at times, then there's zero incentive to use public transport.

xckjoo

spurscormac wrote: »

While I can get door to door in a car at peak hours, in half the time it takes public transport, even though I'm sitting in a traffic jam at times, then there's zero incentive to use public transport.

So more bus lanes?

spurscormac

xckjoo wrote: »

So more bus lanes?

Or give me an incentive to use the public transport - Make it free.
Do that and people will start to make the move.
Make it so the schools are properly served by buses from residential areas.

Do it along with park and ride to encourage out of town people to use it.

It needs to be more than tweaks, a radical overhaul is required.

cgcsb

spurscormac wrote: »

While I can get door to door in a car at peak hours, in half the time it takes public transport, even though I'm sitting in a traffic jam at times, then there's zero incentive to use public transport.

Yes, which is solved by better pt infrastructure, which can be delivered at very low cost with ideology being the main barrier.

cgcsb

spurscormac wrote: »

Or give me an incentive to use the public transport - Make it free.
Do that and people will start to make the move.
Make it so the schools are properly served by buses from residential areas.

Do it along with park and ride to encourage out of town people to use it.

It needs to be more than tweaks, a radical overhaul is required.

What ever is wrong with PT in Galway, it's not a lack of people using it, but rather that the system does not function for the existing users due to the high level of interaction with private traffic, attracting more users through lower fares is a very distant prospect. All modelling on this shows that the larges modal change that occurs from setting the fare to €0 is that people who would otherwise walk or cycle switch to PT in large numbers, which is not desirable, the number of people who switch from car to PT in those scnearios is very small.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

What ever is wrong with PT in Galway, it's not a lack of people using it, but rather that the system does not function for the existing users due to the high level of interaction with private traffic, attracting more users through lower fares is a very distant prospect. All modelling on this shows that the larges modal change that occurs from setting the fare to €0 is that people who would otherwise walk or cycle switch to PT in large numbers, which is not desirable, the number of people who switch from car to PT in those scnearios is very small.

Yup, this

To encourage car users to switch you simply make driving the car the least attractive option. Increase parking costs, reduced priority, reduced parking, lanes given over to other modes, increase fuel prices + car tax, etc

While at the same time increasing the frequency of buses, bus + cycle + pedestrian priority measures, cycling and bus infrastructure etc

You won't be long shifting people out of their cars. Those that choose to remain in them will be paying well for the privilege

youngrun

spurscormac wrote: »

Or give me an incentive to use the public transport - Make it free.
Do that and people will start to make the move.
Make it so the schools are properly served by buses from residential areas.

Do it along with park and ride to encourage out of town people to use it.

It needs to be more than tweaks, a radical overhaul is required.

Why free? There is a cost and a value. People pay for cars why not a low charge for PT.
More buses, more bus lanes , more P&Rs needed. Routes across the QCB etc needed
Plus people mindsets need to change. 5k/8k commutes are nothing on a bike .

Too many cars in too small capacity roads, not going to change unless
A) a big road - 2025 anyone ? Or
just get the bus infra, P&R, and routes up and running next year, Or
C) mass conversion to bike , walk or scooter to work

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

Yes they are. Here's the link....again

https://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Appendix%20A%20Transport%20Demand.pdf

So we're back to square one, the vast majority of trips are short in length, mostly within cycling distance, the number of inter regional trips are small, with almost all trips starting and/or finishing in the City.

No doubt we'll have the same posters re-iterate that they know a lad who drives 20km and public transport wouldn't suit him, at that single data point will be sufficient for that person to ignore all available data on the topic.

Where is the solid line of cars from the junction at the bridge/sean mulvoy road out to the far side of cloonboo, the solid line of traffic from the junction on the tuam road out to claregalway etc at peak times coming from so? Its isn't "one data point"

Where ever they got their data its rubbish.

xckjoo wrote: »

What are you basing that opinion on?
None of those places require you to pass through the city unless you work West of the river. Most jobs are on the East in places like the aforementioned Parkmore.

Isn't parkmore considered the city? It certainly is when it suits certain agendas anyway.

Deleted User wrote: »

You won't be long shifting people out of their cars. Those that choose to remain in them will be paying well for the privilege

And you think this sort of s*it is fair? Its total bull. Public transport is fine for some people some of the time but it can in no way replace using a car for most of the people most of the time unless you are willing to put up with a lot of hardship which I and most are not willing to do, we pay well enough for using our cars as it is its a reduction in motoring costs that is needed. Use public transport and cycle/walk all you want but keep your nose our of other peoples business who want or need to drive.

cgcsb

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Where is the solid line of cars from the junction at the bridge/sean mulvoy road out to the far side of cloonboo, the solid line of traffic from the junction on the tuam road out to claregalway etc at peak times coming from so? Its isn't "one data point"

Where ever they got their data its rubbish.

What part of 'starts and/or ends in the city' don't you follow?

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

and you think this sort of s*it is fair? Its total bull. Public transport is fine for some people some of the time but it can in no way replace using a car for most of the people most of the time unless you are willing to put up with a lot of hardship which I and most are not willing to do, we pay well enough for using our cars as it is its a reduction in motoring costs that is needed. Use public transport and cycle/walk all you want but keep your nose our of other peoples business who want or need to drive.

If that's genuinely your attitude and you're not trolling, may I suggest you're going to find the 21st century surprising af.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

What part of 'starts and/or ends in the city' don't you follow?

I understand it perfectly well, its you who has difficulty understanding that a large proportion of the commutes into the city actually end in the city

cgcsb wrote: »

If that's genuinely your attitude and you're not trolling, may I suggest you're going to find the 21st century surprising af.

Maybe you are expecting us to regress back to a time where many were too poor to have their own means of transport or to before cars were invented but I certainly am not nor are the vast majority of people. There will never in my lifetime be a form of public transport that will be feasible for me to use from my home.

McGiver

Deleted User wrote:

Under/over passes suit motorists, not pedestrians

That's a nonsense, and I say that as someone who largely agrees with you and as a serious supporter of pedestrianised zones, cycle lanes and public transport. I literally grew up in trams.

Underpasses are sometimes the best solution for pedestrians and cyclists. No need to be ideological to the extreme.

Deleted User wrote:

Thank fup we don't have them in Galway

Well, that's why Galway hasn't matured to a city and is stuck in the a town mentality, which manifests itself in how the city looks and operates perhaps?

McGiver

what_traffic wrote:

Is this not a contradiction? I never use it on the bike and use this junction every day going to and from Parkmore. Littered with glass.

Lack of maintenance is not the issue of the concept itself. This is an illogical argument.
It's like saying cycle lanes are useless because they are littered with glass. Which is actually true in many places in Galway, but we don't object to the concept because of that, do we?

McGiver

cgcsb wrote:

The 1960s called, they want their solutions back. Haven't many cities across Europe been removing them over the past decade.

Don't think so.

McGiver

Sara Shapely Bead wrote:

Where ever they got their data its rubbish.

Scientific method versus anecdotal evidence. You claim that your anecdotal evidence has higher value than research, which is a bit rich. I'd suggest you to perform a proper research if you want to dispute the data.

If you don't accept scientific evidence and scientific method as the basis of the discussion then there's no point discussing really.

McGiver

Sara Shapely Bead wrote:

... we pay well enough for using our cars as it is its a reduction in motoring costs that is needed.

Fantasy, not going to happen. Especially not in Ireland with governments of track record of punitive taxes and businesses with track record of rip-off.

There will be a rapid increase of costs as part of decarbonising the private transport. Carbon taxes first, heavy taxation of diesel and petrol fuel as well as cars. You're in for a surprise if you expect reduction in motoring costs.

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

Lack of maintenance is not the issue of the concept itself. This is an illogical argument.
It's like saying cycle lanes are useless because they are littered with glass. Which is actually true in many places in Galway, but we don't object to the concept because of that, do we?

It is not illogical argument. If it cannot be maintained - then its failed concept. (Our model of local Government is the point of failure )
Yes I do object, and I am saying this as somebody who spends 90%+ time travelling by bicycle in Galway City. Many of our cycle lanes are rubbish to use and I often take routes that avoid them. I give you the Doughiska Road Cycle Paths/Lanes - 5 years after it was constructed - City Council gave themselves a 'D' rating on it in the Galway Transportation Study 2015. Its a failure but they could not give themselves an 'F ' or 'E' on it.

cgcsb

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

I understand it perfectly well, its you who has difficulty understanding that a large proportion of the commutes into the city actually end in the city

Which is what I have said

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Maybe you are expecting us to regress back to a time where many were too poor to have their own means of transport or to before cars were invented but I certainly am not nor are the vast majority of people. There will never in my lifetime be a form of public transport that will be feasible for me to use from my home.

Are you a baby boomer by chance?

grbear

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You were doing great but lost the plot at the end

I don't think either route mentioned would be viable anytime soon but I'd still like to see a proper assessment.
Establish what criteria would need to be met to make a new line viable and enforce a policy of not allowing anyone to build on the potential route for each line.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Scientific method versus anecdotal evidence. You claim that your anecdotal evidence has higher value than research, which is a bit rich. I'd suggest you to perform a proper research if you want to dispute the data.

If you don't accept scientific evidence and scientific method as the basis of the discussion then there's no point discussing really.

As a scientist I’m well aware of scientific methods and I also am very aware that people can find the results they want, misinterpret, misrepresent or set conditions to end up with a certain finding etc. I simply don’t believe the findings are accurate.

If I have time at some stage I will go through it and find the faults.

cgcsb wrote: »

Which is what I have said

I’m saying that a large portion of the journeys that finish in the city are far more than 5km, you are trying to claim otherwise.

cgcsb wrote: »

Are you a baby boomer by chance?

Had to google this, if what google tells me is accurate then I’m decades younger than a baby bloomer.

xckjoo

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Isn't parkmore considered the city? It certainly is when it suits certain agendas anyway.

Tis on the outskirts of the city so classify it however you want. But you aren't passing through the city to get to it unless you're coming from west of the river.

xckjoo

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

As a scientist I’m well aware of scientific methods and I also am very aware that people can find the results they want, misinterpret, misrepresent or set conditions to end up with a certain finding etc. I simply don’t believe the findings are accurate.

So do you reckon there's a conspiracy by either a professional engineering firm or the GCC to push an anti-car agenda? Despite the most vocal people calling for more roads and car prioritisation? Seems illogical to me. Would have been far easier for them to just throw up a few roads and wait out the pension. The engineering firm better hope they're not found out or they'll lose their accreditation and professional status.