Galway's traffic issues

cgcsb

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

I’m saying that a large portion of the journeys that finish in the city are far more than 5km, you are trying to claim otherwise.

I never said other wise. I made 2 statements:

1)the vast majority of trips are short
2)almost all trips start and/or end in the city

The two aren't mutually exclusive statements. Being a scientist, you'd think you'd cop that.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

The engineering firm better hope they're not found out or they'll lose their accreditation and professional status.

Really? ARUP so big does one "small" but expensive project in the West of Ireland matter that much?
Anyhow - they have been hedging bets on it. Since the start at public meetings in Galway they have said that MORE roads are not the only solution to Galways Car Traffic problem. They know themselves alright but the Client is always right!(Client = Galway City/County Council)

Geuze

Special offer on Galway city buses during July


From the 1st to the 28th July, using your TFI Leap Card, students and adults can travel for just €1 on Bus Éireann routes within the city zone

xckjoo

what_traffic wrote: »

Really? ARUP so big does one "small" but expensive project in the West of Ireland matter that much?
Anyhow - they have been hedging bets on it. Since the start at public meetings in Galway they have said that MORE roads are not the only solution to Galways Car Traffic problem. They know themselves alright but the Client is always right!(Client = Galway City/County Council)

If they're found to be fudging the numbers to fit an agenda you bet they'd be in trouble. Engineering bodies take a very dim view on that kind of thing. It wouldn't be worth the risk for them to put it in an official report that can be easily reviewed and analysed.

I'm sure one of the posters here who rubbishes their conclusions would easily put together a report outlining where they went wrong and submit it to the relevant body. Sure "it's obvious" after all....

cgcsb

xckjoo wrote: »

If they're found to be fudging the numbers to fit an agenda you bet they'd be in trouble. Engineering bodies take a very dim view on that kind of thing. It wouldn't be worth the risk for them to put it in an official report that can be easily reviewed and analysed.

I'm sure one of the posters here who rubbishes their conclusions would easily put together a report outlining where they went wrong and submit it to the relevant body. Sure "it's obvious" after all....

Arup are more into the technical design. Jacobs and Systra done the modelling and evaluated the scheme's usefulness. Overall it's not positive for the bypass but worded open endedly because the client wants it built.

Gwen Shallow Raccoon

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

As a scientist I’m well aware of scientific methods and I also am very aware that people can find the results they want, misinterpret, misrepresent or set conditions to end up with a certain finding etc. I simply don’t believe the findings are accurate.

They utilised the census 2011 data which is publicly available for analysis. If you don't believe them, lash ahead and do the same analysis and show how incorrect their figures are. I'm interested to see what you come up with

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

They utilised the census 2011 data which is publicly available for analysis. If you don't believe them, lash ahead and do the same analysis and show how incorrect their figures are. I'm interested to see what you come up with

The statement made by the poster was that the vast amount of commute lengths in Galway are 5km or less, then you have people talking about cross town only being considered, are only people within the city commuting being considered etc then you have some other variants. What’s the definition people are using?

Are the vast majority of people who commute to work in Galway traveling 5km or less? Absolutely no way is the answer to that straight forward statement.

Gwen Shallow Raccoon

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

And you think this sort of s*it is fair? Its total bull. Public transport is fine for some people some of the time but it can in no way replace using a car for most of the people most of the time unless you are willing to put up with a lot of hardship which I and most are not willing to do, we pay well enough for using our cars as it is its a reduction in motoring costs that is needed. Use public transport and cycle/walk all you want but keep your nose our of other peoples business who want or need to drive.

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Maybe you are expecting us to regress back to a time where many were too poor to have their own means of transport or to before cars were invented but I certainly am not nor are the vast majority of people. There will never in my lifetime be a form of public transport that will be feasible for me to use from my home.

You really should read my post again.

Simply put the private car WILL see its priority being lowered for 2 main reasons

1. It's the least efficient mode of transport (space/capacity)
2. Galway roads are at/over capacity during peak times.

As the population grows the matter becomes not about what each individual wants, but rather presenting the more efficient modes of transport as the better options when looking at going from point A to Point B

You want to stay in your private car, lash ahead, nobody is going to force you out of it so relax. However, don't be surprised when you are being passed out by buses, cyclists and in some cases, pedestrians as it'll be the slowest/lowest priority during peak travel times.

Pinch Flat

Can't believe some people are still putting forward a private single occupant car as the answer to Galway's traffic problems. There's no where else on the planet this works, why is Galway so different?

cgcsb

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Can't believe some people are still putting forward a private single occupant car as the answer to Galway's traffic problems. There's no where else on the planet this works, why is Galway so different?

The only answer you're going to get will be a series of 'I, Me, My' statements and/or 'I know 10 lads who...' and all of the modelling, data collection, international experience etc. will be deemed invalid.

yer man!

I'm living in the Netherlands now, I know it's not really comparable but anyway. Despite them have fantastic road infrastructure, there are still a pile of traffic jams every morning on the main routes. No matter how attractive you make public transport, and it is very very attractive here and my employer even pays for all of it, you will still have traffic issues. I considered bringing my car over here but for a diesel it's about €100 a month in motor tax and diesel is considerably more expensive compared to ireland so I decided not to and it was the best decision I ever made. I decided it was too expensive to have a motor here so I opted for the public transport and that's the point! The government don't want you driving here and make it as expensive as possible so you won't do it. Now obviously this only works when you have that joined up thinking with regards better buses, trains and cycle infrastructure, but bit by bit even this should be achievable in Galway.

Mrs OBumble

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Can't believe some people are still putting forward a private single occupant car as the answer to Galway's traffic problems. There's no where else on the planet this works, why is Galway so different?

In the same way that private single occupant bicycles aren't the answer.


There is no one answer. The best approach is to combine a variety of modes, and make the ones that most most people using the least fuel*(total space) the most favoured. Making this happen will take a big cultural shift because people Don't Like Sharing. We also need to think a lot harder about demand-reduction, and incentivise people choosing living and working locations that are close togehter. That's best done at a population level, though, so takes more though than many can muster.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In the same way that private single occupant bicycles aren't the answer.

Given that literally everyone on this thread advocating for a move away from single occupancy cars has recommended a multi-pronged approach, of which, bikes are only one part and the fact that nobody, anywhere, ever stated that they are the only solution, one wonders at the point of your statement. I get that you are anti-bike but are flippant, throw-away remarks like that going to do anything to further the discussion?

McGiver

what_traffic wrote:

It is not illogical argument. If it cannot be maintained - then its failed concept. (Our model of local Government is the point of failure ) Yes I do object, and I am saying this as somebody who spends 90%+ time travelling by bicycle in Galway City. Many of our cycle lanes are rubbish to use and I often take routes that avoid them. I give you the Doughiska Road Cycle Paths/Lanes - 5 years after it was constructed - City Council gave themselves a 'D' rating on it in the Galway Transportation Study 2015. Its a failure but they could not give themselves an 'F ' or 'E' on it.

I understand where you are pointing at. But that's an issue of the local pathetic governance, again not of the concept itself per se. Improve the governance and it becomes a succes.

McGiver

Pinch Flat wrote:

Can't believe some people are still putting forward a private single occupant car as the answer to Galway's traffic problems. There's no where else on the planet this works, why is Galway so different?

It does work. In towns in Alabama. Lot of space. But in European context, it doesn't work.

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

I understand where you are pointing at. But that's an issue of the local pathetic governance, again not of the concept itself per se. Improve the governance and it becomes a succes.

True - but this is what we have. No sign of any major change either in Ireland. If I was a resident in Netherlands or Denmark and we were discussing this concept my answer would be very different

motley

Anyone notice a change in the traffic on Bother na dTreabh / Eastern bypass going East.

Commuting home in the evenings the road between Tuam Rd junction and Ballybane Rd junction was full in both lanes every day this week. That used to happen the odd time but it was every day this week.

Going out to Briarhill has also got busier and this is meant to be the quiet time of year for traffic. If it stays like this it will be chaos in September.
Have they changed the timing of the lights?

McGiver

what_traffic wrote:

True - but this is what we have. No sign of any major change either in Ireland. If I was a resident in Netherlands or Denmark and we were discussing this concept my answer would be very different

Whilst I agree that RoI governance isn't great (it will has improved though), I'd localise it further. Some towns in Ireland are well managed, Galway certainly isn't one of them. I wouldn't be so fatalistic. Improvement is possible but needs ditching the Galway Council completely. Now, only 20-30% councillors have been replaced in the last LE, but there has been some progress.

McGiver

motley wrote:

Anyone notice a change in the traffic on Bother na dTreabh / Eastern bypass going East.

I did notice alright, and I also noticed slightly different sequence of the lights at least once, but I thought I just didn't look right.

zell12

motley wrote: »

Anyone notice a change in the traffic on Bother na dTreabh / Eastern bypass going East.
Commuting home in the evenings the road between Tuam Rd junction and Ballybane Rd junction was full in both lanes every day this week. That used to happen the odd time but it was every day this week.
Going out to Briarhill has also got busier and this is meant to be the quiet time of year for traffic. If it stays like this it will be chaos in September.
Have they changed the timing of the lights?

A few posts up #626

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

What are you basing that opinion on?
None of those places require you to pass through the city unless you work West of the river. Most jobs are on the East in places like the aforementioned Parkmore.

The number of people who I have met who work in Parkmore, and live in those places. The number of people who post similar things here about their own workplaces. And the number of people I've met who say similar things.

I do not have statistics about the numbers involved (only Parkmore employers have that, and they're not telling) - but I have enough informally-gathered information to be 100% confident that it's not unrepresentative anecdotes.



Also, I've now put a map of Galway City's boundaries into Google Maps (published here for the curious). People who come into town using the Tuam Rd cross only a tiny bit of Galway City (basically the Parkmore roundabout). But everyone else has to well and truly enter the city area, before exiting out again to work. They aren't in the city-centre - but they are in the parts of the city which have some of the worse traffic problems.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The number of people who I have met who work in Parkmore, and live in those places. The number of people who post similar things here about their own workplaces. And the number of people I've met who say similar things.

I do not have statistics about the numbers involved (only Parkmore employers have that, and they're not telling) - but I have enough informally-gathered information to be 100% confident that it's not unrepresentative anecdotes.



Also, I've now put a map of Galway City's boundaries into Google Maps (published here for the curious). People who come into town using the Tuam Rd cross only a tiny bit of Galway City (basically the Parkmore roundabout). But everyone else has to well and truly enter the city area, before exiting out again to work. They aren't in the city-centre - but they are in the parts of the city which have some of the worse traffic problems.

Thanks but I think I'll trust the figures research and published in the report above some persons feelings on the matter based on people they talk to. If you can point out flaws in their analysis or data gathering then I'll pay attention. Otherwise it's just anecdotal waffle best saved for the pub.



My point about entering the city was more about crossing the river but I take your point. I still don't see the ring road relieving those pinch points though. Be they within the city limits or anywhere else.

cgcsb

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The number of people who I have met who work in Parkmore, and live in those places. The number of people who post similar things here about their own workplaces. And the number of people I've met who say similar things.

I do not have statistics about the numbers involved (only Parkmore employers have that, and they're not telling) - but I have enough informally-gathered information to be 100% confident that it's not unrepresentative anecdotes.

:rolleyes:

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

If you can point out flaws in their analysis or data gathering then I'll pay attention. .

Done over and over again: the analysis excludes people who travel from other countries, through Galway city and then end their journey in Parkmore ie in County Galway.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Done over and over again: the analysis excludes people who travel from other countries, through Galway city and then end their journey in Parkmore ie in County Galway.

What makes you say that? The analysis uses national data. I guess it's not obvious from the GTS document but the it's clear in the original data sources.

From your own map, Parkmore is literally bisected by the city boundaries so can we please move on from this nit picking about it. Define it however you want. I don't see how relevant in practical terms. My original point was about how few people from outside the county have to cross the river to get to work, but I should have made that clearer.

cgcsb

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Done over and over again: the analysis excludes people who travel from other countries, through Galway city and then end their journey in Parkmore ie in County Galway.

You claimed that, but it's not true.

cgcsb

xckjoo wrote: »

What makes you say that? The analysis uses national data. I guess it's not obvious from the GTS document but the it's clear in the original data sources.

From your own map, Parkmore is literally bisected by the city boundaries so can we please move on from this nit picking about it. Define it however you want. I don't see how relevant in practical terms. My original point was about how few people from outside the county have to cross the river to get to work, but I should have made that clearer.

The zones considered by the modelling includes all of Parkmore regardless of the administrative boundary.

motley

Anyone in the middle of the bedlam that was the traffic today? It seemed a perfect storm with the crash on the Quincentenary bridge and the accident on the Salmon Weir Bridge as well.

Storm 10

Absolutely chaotic the Siobhan McKenna road was bumper to bumper heading towards Corrib Park never saw cars from Dunnes Westside in a jam heading towards the Siobhan McKenna road took me almost an hour trying to get from Bohermore to Newcastle

Frozen Veg

Is there any short to medium term plan to solve the calamity that is Galway traffic?

It's reached crisis point.