L drivers, cars taken

ayux4rj6zql2ph

emilymemily wrote: »

Its nothing to do with entitlement and thats rich coming from a generation who could learn how to drive for a fraction of what it costs now and didnt have a hundred and one regulations and hoops to jump through just to get a car on the road.
There are allot of new drivers that dont have anyone to sit with them in the car while they go about their day. Im in my early 30's and only now learning how to drive because its taken me this long to be able to afford to do it. Now I cant even drive my car to practice or get from A to B because of more regulations.
I would be more on board with this if they even tried to make the whole process of learning to drive, getting a car insured and taxed a little easier and less expensive and sorted out the extensive waiting times that it takes to get the full license after passing the driving test but theyre just making it harder and harder. Its an uphill battle trying to get the basics like a car that your generation got with ease compared to how it is now.

I’m of a similar age to you, it cost me a bomb as well to get on the road, I worked for it, didn’t go on social media complaining (98FM/Liveline, I’m from Dublin originally) either, I just got on with it and had to abide by the rules of the road, I’ve got all the driving licences, had to do IBT last year for bikes, didn’t want to do it but again part and parcel of it, have to do driver CPC every year for the rest of my professional driving career, a waste of time and money, but again I have to do it.

What went on back in the day was back then, this is 2019.

I just applied for my test, got practice with my instructors, passed and off I went, job done.

While your situation is no doubt difficult from what you say these rules are brought in for good reason.

Some will agree with them others will disagree, we must live and learn.

tabby aspreme

Gardai were checking the young unaccompanied drivers in the local school carpark, yesterday morning

ayux4rj6zql2ph

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Gardai were checking the young unaccompanied drivers in the local school carpark, yesterday morning

Setting up checkpoints outside schools at finishing time?

fritzelly

Marina Young Lodging wrote: »

Setting up checkpoints outside schools at finishing time?

Taking candy from a baby

When I did my test many moons ago I opted for an intensive course, 3-5 lessons a week for a month. Came to the test, nervous as hell, instructor says take the next right mid way thru the test - so the next left was a little lane way into a graveyard. Thought strange but what do I know, enough to be thinking about.
Thought I had failed because of that but passed first time

No excuse for anyone to be driving alone without a full licence, for some people no amount of lessons will ever sink in that they are an unsafe driver.
Drivers licence is a privelege bestowed upon those who have demonstrated the capability to hold it, not an entitlement

bpmurray

What I find weird about this is that people are complaining about the injustice of it all. I can't think of a country on the planet that allows people who have not passed their test to drive with no trainer/minder. Now that Ireland has joined that group, apparently it's a matter of human rights. What about the people who live in Northern Norway or Sweden, 100km or more from the nearest town? Of course they are not allowed to drive unless they are accompanied by a qualified driving instructor.

I took my driving test while I was living in Denmark and I can assure you that it was in no way easier than here. The theory test was a lot more difficult (I was asked how to measure the wear on a rack & pinion steering), and the driving test was thorough. There was no chance to drive without an instructor, which is exactly why the failure rate is so much lower than here. If you can only drive with someone who constantly and consistently corrects your errors, you'll actually learn to drive.

This whole idea of learning to drive by being let loose on the roads is crazy. Worse, people who have failed the test, i.e. who can guarantee that they cannot drive safely, they too want to be allowed to drive around with no limits. Are they really that stupid?

Dakota Dan

emilymemily wrote: »

Its nothing to do with entitlement and thats rich coming from a generation who could learn how to drive for a fraction of what it costs now and didnt have a hundred and one regulations and hoops to jump through just to get a car on the road.
There are allot of new drivers that dont have anyone to sit with them in the car while they go about their day. Im in my early 30's and only now learning how to drive because its taken me this long to be able to afford to do it. Now I cant even drive my car to practice or get from A to B because of more regulations.
I would be more on board with this if they even tried to make the whole process of learning to drive, getting a car insured and taxed a little easier and less expensive and sorted out the extensive waiting times that it takes to get the full license after passing the driving test but theyre just making it harder and harder. Its an uphill battle trying to get the basics like a car that your generation got with ease compared to how it is now.

This is exactly the same mentality as on Facebook, us versus them, it’s not fair.

Marcusm

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Gardai were checking the young unaccompanied drivers in the local school carpark, yesterday morning

If it’s a school car park, the board of management should ensure that access is only available to appropriately licensed and insured drivers. The school’s in loco parentis responsibilities would leave it open to claims.

fritzelly

Marcusm wrote: »

If it’s a school car park, the board of management should ensure that access is only available to appropriately licensed and insured drivers. The school’s in loco parentis responsibilities would leave it open to claims.

Could have been stopping them leaving the car park...

pablo128

fritzelly wrote: »

Could have been stopping them leaving the car park...

No use doing that. Sure they would catch the first 2 or 3 and the rest would just park up and walk away.

Henry Ford III

Marcusm wrote: »

If it’s a school car park, the board of management should ensure that access is only available to appropriately licensed and insured drivers. The school’s in loco parentis responsibilities would leave it open to claims.

Install ANPR?

tabby aspreme

fritzelly wrote: »

Could have been stopping them leaving the car park...

No, it was morning time, Garda car parked in the school car park, any young drivers been spoken too, all were above board and legal

tabby aspreme

Marcusm wrote: »

If it’s a school car park, the board of management should ensure that access is only available to appropriately licensed and insured drivers. The school’s in loco parentis responsibilities would leave it open to claims.

Should the owners / management of every privately owned car park do the same.

goat2

If the learner driver cars can be taken, then also should the cars driven by those that have no driving test done yet, as it came out in the news last week, that people are booking and not turning up to do tests, they are also learners until they have a full licence, what is the difference

punisher5112

goat2 wrote: »

If the learner driver cars can be taken, then also should the cars driven by those that have no driving test done yet, as it came out in the news last week, that people are booking and not turning up to do tests, they are also learners until they have a full licence, what is the difference

None they just can't say no or take the car as they may well have someone with them.... Obviously highly unlikely if insured and actually have a car.

If found driving alone car is gone but the biggest issue is how easy it is to get back.

pablo128

goat2 wrote: »

If the learner driver cars can be taken, then also should the cars driven by those that have no driving test done yet, as it came out in the news last week, that people are booking and not turning up to do tests, they are also learners until they have a full licence, what is the difference

If they haven't passed a test, they are still a learner. No difference. If you are on your 23rd provisional licence, you are still a learner.

Red Lightning

Learner drivers should not be on the road but the lessons are so darn expensive and if you don't have any accompanied driver then you're gonna need a lot of them to have any chance of passing.

Strumms

Good thing that this enforcement is being publicized. Those that don’t care about this rule of the road and it’s safety implications on those around them are not just NOT going to care about L plates. It WILL be an attitude that filters across other elements of their driving, potentially at a greater cost then just getting a fine or a car taken off them.

SCOOP 64

Was at the driving test center last week with my son , 2 drivers turned up at test center with own car unaccompanied test was taken in their own car and drove out if test center by themselves, would have though the tester would have something to say about it?

iamwhoiam

Red Lightning wrote: »

Learner drivers should not be on the road but the lessons are so darn expensive and if you don't have any accompanied driver then you're gonna need a lot of them to have any chance of passing.

As is the way in most EU countries . You do lessons until you pass the test . In Germany for example absolutley no one is on the road without a full licence unless in a driving school car .
The young people start saving for lessons early on and usually do intensive lessons at 18 .

ayux4rj6zql2ph

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Was at the driving test center last week with my son , 2 drivers turned up at test center with own car unaccompanied test was taken in their own car and drove out if test center by themselves, would have through the tester would have something to say about it?

Legally the tester cannot stop them, it is a matter for the Gardai when the learner turns up and even if they pass and upon leaving do not have a full licence, it is clearly stated that a certificate of competency is not a full licence.

Until the full licence is in a drivers hand then they must be accompanied. We need proper people to run the relevant departments in this country, Lord Ross never owned a car yet is in charge of the entire transport network across the 26 counties, A solicitor with years of experience working on road traffic legislation would be one such idea that would help shake up the laws, it's something i feel strongly about.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

iamwhoiam wrote: »

As is the way in most EU countries . You do lessons until you pass the test . In Germany for example absolutley no one is on the road without a full licence unless in a driving school car .
The young people start saving for lessons early on and usually do intensive lessons at 18 .

But this is Ireland in 2019 where the sense of entitlement is higher than anywhere else known to man, there is a fcuk you attitude to our laws and law enforcement.

iamwhoiam

Marina Young Lodging wrote: »

But this is Ireland in 2019 where the sense of entitlement is higher than anywhere else known to man, there is a fcuk you attitude to our laws and law enforcement.

And added to that is the lack of enforcement of our laws .

ayux4rj6zql2ph

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And added to that is the lack of enforcement of our laws .

Look no further than King Leo and Prince Paschal on that one, they are the (un-elected) leader & purse string controller respectively. The garda force needs to be doubled, each and every motor vehicle fitted with ANPR technology, roll out the roadside app as a matter of urgency. Build more prisons on top of it, this revolving door system in jails plus soft sentences handed down by the judiciary make a mockery of this country. Head over the border into 'norn iron' and they don't take anywhere near the sh1t that is tolerated here.

brightspark

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And added to that is the lack of enforcement of our laws .

Yes, a lot of people seem have been under the impression that it was only this year that driving unaccompanied became illegal, it has been illegal since 2010.

BarryD2

Marina Young Lodging wrote: »

Look no further than King Leo and Prince Paschal on that one, they are the (un-elected) leader & purse string controller respectively. The garda force needs to be doubled, each and every motor vehicle fitted with ANPR technology, roll out the roadside app as a matter of urgency. Build more prisons on top of it, this revolving door system in jails plus soft sentences handed down by the judiciary make a mockery of this country. Head over the border into 'norn iron' and they don't take anywhere near the sh1t that is tolerated here.

Sounds like you want to replicate the USA system! Lots of prisons, lots of employment keeping the inmates under control. Lots of Gardai to feed above system.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

brightspark wrote: »

Yes, a lot of people seem have been under the impression that it was only this year that driving unaccompanied became illegal, it has been illegal since 2010.

Each and every permit issued since then be it 1st,2nd,3rd or 103rd all have code 999 on the back 'must be accompanied by a qualified driver'

ayux4rj6zql2ph

BarryD2 wrote: »

Sounds like you want to replicate the USA system! Lots of prisons, lots of employment keeping the inmates under control. Lots of Gardai to feed above system.

And would you believe i've never been out of the country.

iamwhoiam

BarryD2 wrote: »

Sounds like you want to replicate the USA system! Lots of prisons, lots of employment keeping the inmates under control. Lots of Gardai to feed above system.

Well a fit punishment for a crime would be a start . Plus enforcement of laws and penalties when broken . That might help

brightspark

Marina Young Lodging wrote: »

Look no further than King Leo and Prince Paschal on that one, they are the (un-elected) leader & purse string controller respectively. The garda force needs to be doubled, each and every motor vehicle fitted with ANPR technology, roll out the roadside app as a matter of urgency. Build more prisons on top of it, this revolving door system in jails plus soft sentences handed down by the judiciary make a mockery of this country. Head over the border into 'norn iron' and they don't take anywhere near the sh1t that is tolerated here.

I don't think the amount of Gardai is the problem, the revolving door system is though. I'm sure every Garda is frustrated at having to bring the same faces through the courts every few months.
However as it keeps the judges, barristers and solicitors paid I don't think we will see any changes there.

MIKEKC

brightspark wrote: »

Yes, a lot of people seem have been under the impression that it was only this year that driving unaccompanied became illegal, it has been illegal since 2010.[/QU
2010 ? .I learned to drive in 1967, and you had o be accompanied then

ayux4rj6zql2ph

brightspark wrote: »

I don't think the amount of Gardai is the problem, the revolving door system is though. I'm sure every Garda is frustrated at having to bring the same faces through the courts every few months.
However as it keeps the judges, barristers and solicitors paid I don't think we will see any changes there.

Every few months? Every week or every few weeks, you’d regularly see it online. The judges are appointed due to their political connections in some cases.

BarryD2

MIKEKC wrote: »

2010 ? .I learned to drive in 1967, and you had o be accompanied then

I and many friends learnt to drive in early 1980s and I don't recall any such stricture at all. You got in, you drove, you got experience and then you passed your test. I did the test twice, took me the first to figure out what the examiner was looking for and then took that into account on repeat.

That's how you pass all tests/ exams - you figure what's required. I was no safer or better a driver after passing than I was going into first test. I'd already figured out how to drive safely and competently by simply driving and taking responsibility.

And that's what's wrong with the current system - how to get real experience..

brightspark

BarryD2 wrote: »

I and many friends learnt to drive in early 1980s and I don't recall any such stricture at all. You got in, you drove, you got experience and then you passed your test. I did the test twice, took me the first to figure out what the examiner was looking for and then took that into account on repeat.

That's how you pass all tests/ exams - you figure what's required. I was no safer or better a driver after passing than I was going into first test. I'd already figured out how to drive safely and competently by simply driving and taking responsibility.

And that's what's wrong with the current system - how to get real experience..

Mid 80s for me, and yes you had to be accompanied on your 1st, 3rd and subsequent provisional licences (note they were called licences then, not permits)

Many of course ignored the law as the penalties were relatively minor (No points back then either)

I came across this and had to laugh.

“Attention All L Plate Drivers,
Driving is a necessity, NOT a luxury.
Our Irish Government, specifically Shane Ross The Minister of transport Campaigned for and passed a law banning L Drivers off the roads. To summaries this means :
L Drivers cannot Drive unaccompanied.
Cars are liable to be seized
If your car is seized you have to pay a hefty fine
If the fines are not paid, the alternative is prison time.
Penalty points on your liscence
A possible ban off the roads
This law discriminates against all who are simply trying to:
Learn how to drive
Get to work
Get yourself/kids/family to Hospital appointments
Get to college/School
When this law was brought in, The working class people in this country living in rural areas/towns were not considered.
Many people are struggling to now afford to pay the bills/buy messages/attend Work & College which means - their livelihood & future is being robbed from them.
On top of this - The waiting times to even get a practical test is atrocious in some areas, in many cases people are waiting 6months-1Year for a test.
We are calling for an alternative solution to this law such as:
Completing Your 12 Required lessons, getting your instructor to sign a document of some kind saying you can drive alone up to your practical test date in order to keep your job and sustain your quality of living. (if instructor feels you need more lessons, then more lessons can be gotten until the instructor sees fit to sign off on your ability to drive alone)
This is just one of many alternatives to this law, and it would benefit everyone. This discrimination against L Plate Drivers cannot go on, especially When it affects people’s ability to live securely.
Driving is a necessity and NOT a luxury.”

https://www.change.org/p/irish-government-abolish-discriminative-driving-laws-against-l-drivers-in-ireland

JohnMc1

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

i think the long wait times for test and retest need to be looked at, a lot of drivers are just to impatience to wait, still surprised at the response of Garda to this new law and the rate of prosecution, but i suppose because with L plates on the car, big red flag. (not advising to take off L plates before going out unaccompanied).but at the end of of the day its a piece of paper and one tester saying your ok to drive, the day before you were not,you were just a Criminal breaking the law.
but it must be keeping the Guards busy.

The RSA has taking their share of responsibility for this. What's an Adult L driver supposed to do? Give up their jobs? [Good luck getting taxes from people in this economy then] The RSA got greedy and made the test expensive [from €35 to €90] and harder and harder to ensure people would have to re test at €90 a pop [and I wonder if the tester can pass by their own standards] Waiting list that last nearly half the year,etc. Do they expect people to put their lives on hold until they grow a brain and cop on?

Plumbthedepths

Deleted User wrote:

“Attention All L Plate Drivers, Driving is a necessity, NOT a luxury. Our Irish Government, specifically Shane Ross The Minister of transport Campaigned for and passed a law banning L Drivers off the roads. To summaries this means : L Drivers cannot Drive unaccompanied. Cars are liable to be seized If your car is seized you have to pay a hefty fine If the fines are not paid, the alternative is prison time. Penalty points on your liscence A possible ban off the roads This law discriminates against all who are simply trying to: Learn how to drive Get to work Get yourself/kids/family to Hospital appointments Get to college/School When this law was brought in, The working class people in this country living in rural areas/towns were not considered. Many people are struggling to now afford to pay the bills/buy messages/attend Work & College which means - their livelihood & future is being robbed from them. On top of this - The waiting times to even get a practical test is atrocious in some areas, in many cases people are waiting 6months-1Year for a test. We are calling for an alternative solution to this law such as: Completing Your 12 Required lessons, getting your instructor to sign a document of some kind saying you can drive alone up to your practical test date in order to keep your job and sustain your quality of living. (if instructor feels you need more lessons, then more lessons can be gotten until the instructor sees fit to sign off on your ability to drive alone) This is just one of many alternatives to this law, and it would benefit everyone. This discrimination against L Plate Drivers cannot go on, especially When it affects people’s ability to live securely. Driving is a necessity and NOT a luxury.â€

What utter crap. This petition will get the attention it deserves....none .

Rechuchote

I know of two people who were knocked off bicycles by unaccompanied L drivers; one was in a coma for weeks and has had a long, slow, difficult recovery; the other was also seriously injured.

You shouldn't be driving alone until you've passed a test to prove that you're competent to be in charge of a couple of tons of machinery on a public road. In fact, if I had my way drivers would take a retest every five years.

Around 150 people are killed by drivers every year in Ireland, never mind the thousands that are maimed and crippled.

brightspark

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The RSA has taking their share of responsibility for this. What's an Adult L driver supposed to do? Give up their jobs? [Good luck getting taxes from people in this economy then] The RSA got greedy and made the test expensive [from €35 to €90] and harder and harder to ensure people would have to re test at €90 a pop [and I wonder if the tester can pass by their own standards] Waiting list that last nearly half the year,etc. Do they expect people to put their lives on hold until they grow a brain and cop on?

An adult L driver should take lessons and pass the test. Again there is nothing new in not being allowed to drive unaccompanied on a learner permit, those who think otherwise are only highlighting their own ignorance of the rules of the road.

Posy

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Was at the driving test center last week with my son , 2 drivers turned up at test center with own car unaccompanied test was taken in their own car and drove out if test center by themselves, would have though the tester would have something to say about it?

I was called in from the waiting room by myself, drove with the tester and then went back to the centre for my result/feedback where I was told the certificate of competency isn't a licence to drive alone.
The tester didn't see me arrive or leave in the car, so wouldn't have known who was/wasn't accompanying me!

SCOOP 64

Posy wrote: »

I was called in from the waiting room by myself, drove with the tester and then went back to the centre for my result/feedback where I was told the certificate of competency isn't a licence to drive alone.
The tester didn't see me arrive or leave in the car, so wouldn't have known who was/wasn't accompanying me!

I suppose the tester wouldn't necessarily see it and ask no questions, but i though it was brazen to turn up unaccompanied especially with recent clamp down.

Rechuchote

brightspark wrote: »

An adult L driver should take lessons and pass the test. Again there is nothing new in not being allowed to drive unaccompanied on a learner permit, those who think otherwise are only highlighting their own ignorance of the rules of the road.

As far as I remember, it was forbidden, then it was allowed for a while, now it is, thankfully, forbidden again.

Isambard

Rechuchote wrote: »

As far as I remember, it was forbidden, then it was allowed for a while, now it is, thankfully, forbidden again.

it was only permitted on a second provisional for some unfathomable reason. Rightly outlawed and now being enforced .

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Isambard wrote: »

it was only permitted on a second provisional for some unfathomable reason. Rightly outlawed and now being enforced .

It was probably the opinion of the government of the day that you had 2 years experience under your belt once you hit the then second provisional licence, if you were on a third you either failed/refused/couldn't do your test.

Isambard

Marina Young Lodging wrote: »

It was probably the opinion of the government of the day that you had 2 years experience under your belt once you hit the then second provisional licence, if you were on a third you either failed/refused/couldn't do your test.

yes but you could apply for a provo, never turn a wheel and then when you got your second, drive on your own. inevitably, having driven solo for a year or so, noone went back to being accompanied. Totally twisted thinking.

Eggs For Dinner

Some need to stop this nonsense about needing to drive unaccompanied because of jobs or college etc. This law is rightly here to stay. Get your permit as soon as you're eligible, take the lessons and pass your test before it becomes an issue

punisher5112

Should be taught in schools.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Some need to stop this nonsense about needing to drive unaccompanied because of jobs or college etc. This law is rightly here to stay. Get your permit as soon as you're eligible, take the lessons and pass your test before it becomes an issue

The amount of excuses are something else, i think even dudara the admin around here took issue with that saying she lived in the sticks and just had to get on with it she hit the nail on the head there, it's the entitlement culture that has people like that.

Eggs For Dinner

punisher5112 wrote: »

Should be taught in schools.

Exactly. And it costs the same amount of money for an 18yr old to get the permit, do the lessons and sit the test as it does for a 40yr old person

crossman47

punisher5112 wrote: »

Should be taught in schools.

Schools have enough on their plate with the constant pressure to add new subjects without adding one that comes with added complications such as appropriate insurance for one.

Jim Gazebo

crossman47 wrote: »

Schools have enough on their plate with the constant pressure to add new subjects without adding one that comes with added complications such as appropriate insurance for one.

I think there should be a program in schools. Lots of people can't afford to learn to drive which leads to the issues you see learning later. Learning younger always proves better.