MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

listermint

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

You want links for recent polls Google them yourself.

But since you said please, here's the results In the referendum.

60.7% voted leave in Penistone and Stocksbridge

54.6%. voted leave in Luton South

So, leave constituencies.


Smith has zero chance of being reelected. Tories will take that seat.

You made an assertion so back it up with recent polls or don't because it goes against what you are saying. And those calling for these to reflect the labour vote. They are reflecting more than anyone because the majority want a second referendum. These are facts that you lads keep ignoring or attempting to talk around. It's laughable.

Tom Mann Centuria

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's a break from the herd. I can see dozens more joining them if both parties maintain their current positions over the next seven weeks.

It'd actually help Labour if a few tories jumped ship and joined the independent registered company not a party, party.

Soubry and Grieve are too concerned with holding their seat though.

Professor Moriarty

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The tory vote has held solid, if anything there has been a small seepage to UKIP, when May's deal was announced for instance. Theres no obvious remainers leaving, if there were it would see the libs rise as the Tory's fall.

Labour remainers have largely held solid as well, but in recent polls it looks ike a few percentages have moved to the libs. Some of that may now go to the new party.

It might go to them and other MPs who might join them. Consider this too: A temporary Brexit coalition could form between Tory/Labour remainers, the Lib Dems and the SNP.

Havockk

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's a break from the herd. I can see dozens more joining them if both parties maintain their current positions over the next seven weeks.

Next round of polling is going to tell a tale?

If no tories join then the project will have been a total abject failure. Could you see Soubry with this lot? I'm not so sure. I hear there might be some more labour to come but there could now also have been cold feet in some quarters.

MrMusician18

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's a break from the herd. I can see dozens more joining them if both parties maintain their current positions over the next seven weeks.

No one will join them.

It's career suicide.

Professor Moriarty

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

It'd actually help Labour if a few tories jumped ship and joined the independent registered company not a party, party.

Soubry and Grieve are too concerned with holding their seat though.

With a week to go, I'd say they'd be gone. Today, groups of ministers and MPs have been calling into No.10 demanding that No Deal is taken off the table. If it isn't, Soubry and Grieve will go. If you think about it, they've already nailed their colours to the mast. Soubry, in particular, has been scathing about her own party.

Tom Mann Centuria

listermint wrote: »

You made an assertion so back it up with recent polls or don't because it goes against what you are saying. And those calling for these to reflect the labour vote. They are reflecting more than anyone because the majority want a second referendum. These are facts that you lads keep ignoring or attempting to talk around. It's laughable.

I made an assertion that 2 of the MPs were in leave constituencies, they are. I backed it up.

I think it's laughable, or maybe a bit worrying you're seeing things in posts that aren't there.

Professor Moriarty

MrMusician18 wrote: »

No one will join them.

It's career suicide.

It would depend on how Brexit goes. Look at how Brexit opinion has shifted in Labour since the referendum.

listermint

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I made an assertion that 2 of the MPs were in leave constituencies, they are. I backed it up.

I think it's laughable, or maybe a bit worrying you're seeing things in posts that aren't there.

Ahh I see. You went googling.... You've been gone a while and noticed all those leave constituencies you earmarked have switched to remain and the polls all indicate labour were going to lose them by not backing remain.

Cheers for participating though it's been rich.

Folkstonian

MrMusician18 wrote: »

No one will join them.

It's career suicide.

Good on them, then.

It’s really refreshing to see some politicians on the centre left show some bottle, stand up for their values and not just sit on the back benches collecting a pay packet for the next couple of decades whole rolling their eyes occasionally of the party that once, though no longer, felt like a home to them.

PS - speaking about the antisemitic abuse she received from party activists already appeared to be career suicide for poor Luciana Berger who looked destined to be deselected anyway. What did she have to lose?

Havockk

Folkstonian wrote: »

Good on them, then.

It’s really refreshing to see some politicians on the centre left show some bottle, stand up for their values and not just sit on the back benches collecting a pay packet for the next couple of decades whole rolling their eyes occasionally of the party that once, though no longer, felt like a home to them.

PS - speaking about the antisemitic abuse she received from party activists already appeared to be career suicide for poor Luciana Berger who looked destined to be deselected anyway. What did she have to lose?

It's getting really weird that you keep bring up antisemitism in just about every single post you have made in this thread, completely out of the blue. I went back and checked as I remembered the last few occasions.

Tom Mann Centuria

listermint wrote: »

Ahh I see. You went googling.... You've been gone a while and noticed all those leave constituencies you earmarked have switched to remain and the polls all indicate labour were going to lose them by not backing remain.

Cheers for participating though it's been rich.

Ah, so you asked me to Google something, and then point score for me googling something. Excellent, or rich even. :pac:

Oh, and I didn't earmark anything, the referendum result earmarked those two constituencies by voting that way. Leave constituencies. The other 5, because of the way they voted, Remain constituencies.

Polls are often wrong, and even if Labour were to lose those seats, how many would the gang of 7 pick up? I'll stick with none.

Folkstonian

Havockk wrote: »

It's getting really weird that you keep bring up antisemitism in just about every single post you have made in this thread, completely out of the blue. I went back and checked as I remembered the last few occasions.

Deeply odd behaviour on your part, but what you do with your time is your own business.

I bring up antisemitism because it’s prevalence in labour - and the complete failure to eradicate it - were central to this group of MPs decision making process before leaving the party.

I don’t think this is too much of a surprise - it was referenced by literally all seven of them in their speeches this morning.

<SNIP>

Havockk

Folkstonian wrote: »

Deeply odd behaviour on your part, but what you do with your time is your own business.

I bring up antisemitism because it’s prevalence in labour - and the complete failure to eradicate it - were central to this group of MPs decision making process before leaving the party.

I don’t think this is too much of a surprise - it was referenced by literally all seven of them in their speeches this morning.

Why does it make you uneasy for this discussion about antisemitic abuse to be held? In fact - don’t answer. I wont be engaging with you again in this thread, you slightly weird man.

Hate to get in the way of a narrative being spun.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Folkstonian wrote: »

Who do you think they are meant to be helping?

They cannot help the Labour Party. It’s gone. It’s done. It’s in the hands of extremists and they wont be letting go.

They’ve been trying to help by speaking out about certain issues for over three years and have achieved nothing but to make themselves targets of some pretty disgraceful abuse.

They’ve left the Labour Party because it no longer reflects their values, their morals or their politics. They can now speak and vote freely on important issues and not be condemned by association with what’s going on in British Labour.

The Labour Party is gone? Huge if true.

LuckyLloyd

Folkstonian wrote: »

Deeply odd behaviour on your part, but what you do with your time is your own business.

I bring up antisemitism because it’s prevalence in labour - and the complete failure to eradicate it - were central to this group of MPs decision making process before leaving the party.

I don’t think this is too much of a surprise - it was referenced by literally all seven of them in their speeches this morning.

Why does it make you uneasy for this discussion about antisemitic abuse to be held? In fact - don’t answer. I wont be engaging with you again in this thread, you slightly weird man.

How is it prevalent in Labour? What exactly are the examples / issues of anti semitism?

Varik

Havockk wrote: »

It's getting really weird that you keep bring up antisemitism in just about every single post you have made in this thread, completely out of the blue. I went back and checked as I remembered the last few occasions.

Out of the blue?

It's the reason they said they left the labour party, so the entire topic of this thread.

Havockk

Varik wrote: »

Out of the blue?

It's the reason they said they left the labour party, so the entire topic of this thread.

I don't buy that antisemitism is endemic in the labour party, and I certainly don't accept that Corbyn himself is anything but a decent man who has always stood up against racism in all its forms.

I also accept that it surely exists in society, but I don't buy that it's reasonable to make 6, 7 or 8 attempts to inject it into the conversation without at least providing some evidence or examples.

Roger_007

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Labour Party is gone? Huge if true.

The problem with the Labour Party is that the party membership, who had the biggest say in leadership election, is way further to the left that the labour voters who elected the MPs. That is why Corbyn is out of sync with the majority of the Labour MPs.
Apparently many Labour constituency organisations have, if anything, moved further left than at the last election. The likelihood is that many of the more moderate MPs will be deselected for the next election and replaced with 'Corbynisters'. This was the likely fate awaiting the 7 who left today. They just jumped before they were pushed.
Many of the MPs who voted against Corbyn in the leadership election must know that their days as Labour MPs are numbered. What incentive have they to stay in the Party?
Labour is in a bigger mess than the Tories, and that's saying something!

Dyr

Varik wrote: »

Out of the blue?

It's the reason they said they left the labour party, so the entire topic of this thread.

And yet I haven't seen anyone put meat on the bones of the allegation of institutional antisemitism


Bit of a reds under the bed moment in The British Labour Party, ironically enough


Antisemites under the nightlight perhaps

super_furry

Derek Hatton has been readmitted to the Labour party 34 years after being expelled.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/derek-hatton-back-labour-party-15850789

Perfectly fitting on the day that's in it and a clear indication that Corbyn is only interesting in steering Labour in a Trotskyist direction.

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

Derek Hatton has been readmitted to the Labour party 34 years after being expelled.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/derek-hatton-back-labour-party-15850789

Perfectly fitting on the day that's in it and a clear indication that Corbyn is only interesting in steering Labour in a Trotskyist direction.

What are you on about? Labour have been the political voice of the left for generations. How can it be shocking that lefties are accepted into left-wing parties? Getting to newspeak levels.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Roger_007 wrote: »

The problem with the Labour Party is that the party membership, who had the biggest say in leadership election, is way further to the left that the labour voters who elected the MPs. That is why Corbyn is out of sync with the majority of the Labour MPs.
Apparently many Labour constituency organisations have, if anything, moved further left than at the last election. The likelihood is that many of the more moderate MPs will be deselected for the next election and replaced with 'Corbynisters'. This was the likely fate awaiting the 7 who left today. They just jumped before they were pushed.
Many of the MPs who voted against Corbyn in the leadership election must know that their days as Labour MPs are numbered. What incentive have they to stay in the Party?
Labour is in a bigger mess than the Tories, and that's saying something!

That’s a totally incorrect analysis of the situation. The reason labour is moving left is because the centre (the Overton window) is moving left, and to a certain extent right. The Tories are holding off their right flank with the their Brexiteers. Blairism is dead. Cameronism is dead.

super_furry

Havockk wrote: »

What are you on about? Labour have been the political voice of the left for generations. How can it be shocking that lefties are accepted into left-wing parties? Getting to newspeak levels.

There's a huge difference between left-wingers and Trotskyites.

do people not read the media?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-jewish-members-abuse-jennie-formby-plp-margaret-hodge-a8774586.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47203397

https://www.thejournal.ie/anti-semitic-labour-4318718-Nov2018/

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

There's a huge difference between left-wingers and Trotskyites.

Is he not allowed to participate?

super_furry

Havockk wrote: »

Is he not allowed to participate?

Not for 34 years because he was expelled from Labour.....

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

Not for 34 years because he was expelled from Labour.....

He's in now though, are you saying he shouldn't be allowed to?

super_furry

Havockk wrote: »

He's in now though, are you saying he shouldn't be allowed to?

Yes, he's in now. Which - and stay with me here - shows the direction that Corbyn is leading the Labour party in.

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

Yes, he's in now. Which - and stay with me here - shows the direction that Corbyn is leading the Labour party in.

Kate Hoey is in there, is she a trot too? You don't have a point with this, other than McCarthyesque hysteria.