MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

AllForIt

The Labour party are currently a joke. An old style socialist as leader and the gaff prone Diane Abbott as shadow home secretary etc etc. What a farce.

Once Corbyn goes all this overblown anti-semitism stuff will die down. What I see happening is after 29th March or on the day Britain leave the EU there will be a push to get rid of Corybn and his front bench and will hopefully usher in a come competent opposition. I think todays development is the opening salvo in that pursuit.

super_furry

Havockk wrote: »

Kate Hoey is in there, is she a trot too? You don't have a point with this, other than McCarthyesque hysteria.

Funny, I don't remember Kate Hoey being readmitted after 34-years of being expelled. Corbyn's Labour is heading down the Trotsky route and the fact that Militant Tendancy's poster boy is suddenly back in the fold illustrates that perfectly.

Franz Von Peppercorn

super_furry wrote: »

Yes, he's in now. Which - and stay with me here - shows the direction that Corbyn is leading the Labour party in.

Where, to the left? I thought he was already there.

Labour has the support of the vast majority of under 25s, even the under 40s, and while the left always had an advantage there it’s extraordinary now.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-labour-youth-vote-under-40s-jeremy-corbyn-yougov-poll-a7789151.html

65% of under the 40s under Corbyn.

Franz Von Peppercorn

super_furry wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember Kate Hoey being readmitted after 34-years of being expelled. Corbyn's Labour is heading down the Trotsky route and the fact that Militant Tendancy's poster boy is suddenly back in the fold illustrates that perfectly.

Wait til Galloway comes back abd they expel Blair.

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember Kate Hoey being readmitted after 34-years of being expelled. Corbyn's Labour is heading down the Trotsky route and the fact that Militant Tendancy's poster boy is suddenly back in the fold illustrates that perfectly.

I must be slow, for I'm not following. You are saying it's all ok for him to be a member of the labour party, but you personally don't approve of either his re-admittance or his reapplication?

Roger_007

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s a totally incorrect analysis of the situation. The reason labour is moving left is because the centre (the Overton window) is moving left, and to a certain extent right. The Tories are holding off their right flank with the their Brexiteers. Blairism is dead. Cameronism is dead.

The Labour Party membership is moving further left. The voters are not, if anything, they are moving to the right and some to the extreme right. That's the problem.

super_furry

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Wait til Galloway comes back abd they expel Blair.

I mean you joke about it, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Galloway does come back in now.

ilkhanid

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Corbyn has fudged the Labour Brexit position because he has to, and I think he's done a reasonable job. When they are trying to appeal to Northern and Midland working class towns in England they have to acknowledge they were strongly Leave in nearly all constituencies.

What we call here in Ireland "Talking out of both sides of your mouth"

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

In fact labour can’t abandon their working class base, so they would always fudge Brexit.

In other words, they can't act with Good Authority and make it plain to Labour voters the disaster that Breixit is going to be. So, fudge it is,so?

Hardly surprising they can't lay out specific examples very well when even this thread is ignoringe the two elephants in the room; Labour's growing reliance on actual anti-Semitic Muslims, and the Jewish population's extraordinary low thresholds for what it calls anti-Semitism.

Since neither can be talked about publicly, people will talk around the topic. Best to focus on the Brexit side of things.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Roger_007 wrote: »

The Labour Party membership is moving further left. The voters are not, if anything, they are moving to the right and some to the extreme right. That's the problem.

65% of under 40s voted labour. Corbyn’s Labour.
(And even if some voters are moving to the extreme right do you expect labour to follow?).

The policies of the modern Labour Party are to the right of every Labour Party manifesto until Blair. The centre (the old centre) as represented by Blair is dying out.

listermint

What this thread has superbly demonstrated is the he almost trumpian cult like support Corbyn has managed to whip up. He's a god like figure that can do not wrong.

Despite having failed to live up to any expectations that were made of him.

Frankly his a sub par poor far left politician who just happened to be in the right place and the right time of austerity on working class areas. But all that faith all that effort he's done absolutely f all with it. He's still trailing a ruthless despicable Torie party of hapless miscontents.

He will never lose a tiny portion of fanatics because just like trump the can't see his failings. The emperor truly is nudey.


Love how threads like this rake them up where they can twist and turn their own comments several times over within two pages and always believe that's what the said on the first page.

Good luck. He's drowning the party everyday he does nothing.

Havockk

ilkhanid wrote: »

In other words, they can't act with Good Authority and make it plain to Labour voters the disaster that Breixit is going to be. So, fudge it is,so?

That's the government's job and responsibility. Labour is the opposition.

Franz Von Peppercorn

super_furry wrote: »

I mean you joke about it, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Galloway does come back in now.

He well might. If the blairites leave then the party is automatically to the left of where it was. As for Galloway himself wasn’t he removed for being anti-war?

Havockk

listermint wrote: »

What this thread has superbly demonstrated is the he almost trumpian cult like support Corbyn has managed to whip up. He's a god like figure that can do not wrong.

Despite having failed to live up to any expectations that were made of him.

Frankly his a sub par poor far left politician who just happened to be in the right place and the right time of austerity on working class areas. But all that faith all that effort he's done absolutely f all with it. He's still trailing a ruthless despicable Torie party of hapless miscontents.

He will never lose a tiny portion of fanatics because just like trump the can't see his failings. The emperor truly is nudey.


Love how threads like this rake them up where they can twist and turn their own comments several times over within two pages and always believe that's what the said on the first page.

Good luck. He's drowning the party everyday he does nothing.

This is what political discourse has come to. Centerists getting upset that left-wing parties don't act like centrists.

completely ignoring the economic realities on the ground or the underlying causes that delivered brexit. Lads, this might be the UK today, but eventually, it's going to come to Ireland. The old political winds are changing.

Professor Moriarty

Soubry has removed all references to the Tory party from her Twitter biography. Seems like she might be preparing to abandon ship. Interesting times.

marno21

Calling Corbyn "sub par" is being extremely kind to him imo. He's been a special level of useless to have a poorer approval rating than the leader of the dumpster fire Government at present.

ilkhanid

Folkstonian wrote: »

I bring up antisemitism because it’s prevalence in labour - and the complete failure to eradicate it - were central to this group of MPs decision making process before leaving the party.

The corbynite tendency were always very right on, vocal about the Palestinians (altho'. for the life of me, I can't understand why they deserve so much attention given the amount of genocide, oppression, famine and chaos in the rest of the world) and opposed to Blair's war but with that stance they acquired some distasteful bedfellows. Certain strains of ant-Israeli opinion segue into anti-semitism. Considering the rise of anti Jewish behaviour in the last number of years, any responsible leader should be alert for it. Corbyn is a weakling, not wanting to offend his bien piensant allies or the Moslem constituency. He should have crushed anti-semitism in the party the moment it reared it's head once and for all; he should have disavowed all associates that had even the slightest whiff of anti-Semitism off them,he should have taken pains to be above suspicion on this matter, but he prefers to wring his hands and look the other way.

Snickers Man

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That sort of image could be incredibly damaging for the party. Rhetoric like "cowards" and "traitors" does not belong in a respectable party of government.

Maybe not, but it is in the lyrics of "The Red Flag" which is still sung every year by all attending members at the Labour Party Annual conference.

I presume that's still the case; they certainly used to sing that song every year. Mind you in Blair's time and the epoch of "New Labour" there was an alternative satiric version

"The cloth cap and the working class
As images are dated
Coz we're New Labour's avant garde
And we've been educated
With tax adjustments we have plans
To implement the promised land
And just to show we're still sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year."

listermint

marno21 wrote: »

Calling Corbyn "sub par" is being extremely kind to him imo. He's been a special level of useless to have a poorer approval rating than the leader of the dumpster fire Government at present.

I didn't want to be my usual mean self

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

Hardly surprising they can't lay out specific examples very well when even this thread is ignoringe the two elephants in the room; Labour's growing reliance on actual anti-Semitic Muslims, and the Jewish population's extraordinary low thresholds for what it calls anti-Semitism.

Since neither can be talked about publicly, people will talk around the topic. Best to focus on the Brexit side of things.

I pointed out those two problems when the thread started. Good luck getting any joy

Gbear

Heaven forbid a politician actually shows some leadership and vision, and propose a solution that won't send the country down the toilet.

Instead of hammering the Tories and Leave fanatics for their shady business ties and demagoguery, and the misinformation peddled arm in arm with propaganda outlets like Cambridge Analytica, and the total failure to attack the Leave side over their links to Russian Oligarchs, Corbyn has hidden behind the political expediency of a 4% margin in the referendum and continues to do so.

What I would like to see from a functional opposition to the biggest embarrassment of a government in British history would be to show a contrast by displaying a bit of bloody patriotism in trying to save the country from this fascist cash grab and descent into oligarchy, but apparently the prize of being able to sweep up the remains of Britain and trying to glue it back together into a economic illiterate's fantasy is more appealing to Corbyn.

Never mind a 2nd referendum. A Labour leader with balls and more than half a dozen brain cells would've been attacking the referendum as the illegitimate expression of classism and racism that it is and pushing towards cancelling Article 50 outright.

Topgear on Dave

Gbear wrote: »

Never mind a 2nd referendum. A Labour leader with balls and more than half a dozen brain cells would've been attacking the referendum as the illegitimate expression of classism and racism that it is and pushing towards cancelling Article 50 outright.

Isnt Corbyn a brexiteer though?

https://www.theredroar.com/2019/02/exclusive-corbyn-branded-eu-military-frankenstein-and-trashed-second-irish-referendum-in-unearthed-footage/

Franz Von Peppercorn

Gbear wrote: »

Heaven forbid a politician actually shows some leadership and vision, and propose a solution that won't send the country down the toilet.

Instead of hammering the Tories and Leave fanatics for their shady business ties and demagoguery, and the misinformation peddled arm in arm with propaganda outlets like Cambridge Analytica, and the total failure to attack the Leave side over their links to Russian Oligarchs, Corbyn has hidden behind the political expediency of a 4% margin in the referendum and continues to do so.

What I would like to see from a functional opposition to the biggest embarrassment of a government in British history would be to show a contrast by displaying a bit of bloody patriotism in trying to save the country from this fascist cash grab and descent into oligarchy, but apparently the prize of being able to sweep up the remains of Britain and trying to glue it back together into a economic illiterate's fantasy is more appealing to Corbyn.

Never mind a 2nd referendum. A Labour leader with balls and more than half a dozen brain cells would've been attacking the referendum as the illegitimate expression of classism and racism that it is and pushing towards cancelling Article 50 outright.

Despite that rant it would have been political suicide to oppose the referendum result. Which which legally advisory was sold as binding.

There is now a remain party. That isn’t the maligned liberals. Let’s see how many votes it gets.

Hurrache

Latest polling
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1097637184235077633?s=19

Professor Moriarty

Hurrache wrote: »

Latest polling
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1097637184235077633?s=19

Corbyn.

chuky_r_law

Hurrache wrote: »

Latest polling
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1097637184235077633?s=19

were they actually asked the option of a 'a new centrist party'?


are they immediately identifying this 7+ defectors as centrist immediately? nice of the pollsters to define their position as 'centrist'. are they exactly 'centrist' on everything? can they lean left or right on things?
seems like a weird way to ask people their political preference

Havockk

Hurrache wrote: »

Latest polling
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1097637184235077633?s=19

That's actually recoverable from a Lab perspective. I'm surprised the dent isn't greater but things are still developing, so could change. 8% is also hardly inspiring for attracting more 'talent' as it were.

Memnoch

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Corbyn.

Nope. A concerted propaganda campaign in order to maintain the corrupt status quo of greed, exploitation and inequality.

Unfortunately, it seems to have been effective.

MrMusician18

Hurrache wrote: »

Latest polling
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1097637184235077633?s=19

Such a poll is rather meaningless, electors would have been responding with half a days worth of information, assuming it was done today. If it was not done today it means even less as anyone can project their beliefs onto the band of 7 even if they do not reflect their position.

You would need to give it a few days at least for the news to permeate imo, for real polling.

The rush to be first is damaging.

Havockk

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Such a poll is rather meaningless, electors would have been responding with half a days worth of information, assuming it was done today. If it was not done today it means even less as anyone can project their beliefs onto the band of 7 even if they do not reflect their position.

You would need to give it a few days at least for the news to permeate imo, for real polling.

The rush to be first is damaging.

You've got to imagine though that for them 8% has got to be disappointing. Not much of a populist centre emerging.