MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

ilkhanid

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nope. The one thing I feel very strongly about when it comes to British society is how the right wing media have successfully poisoned the well over the years. It’s amazing to me that we have people who see that with Brexit: the way the .

Did the "Right-wing" media (that includes the Guardian, now does it?) magic up the Ruth George quote?

JeffKenna

Heidi Allen is one of the best looking women I've seen in a long while.

Franz Von Peppercorn

prawnsambo wrote: »

This isn't merdia driven and it's not about centrist 'yearnings'. This is coming from Labour Party members and MPs. Here are some stats for you. Since April 2018 (10 months), there have been 673 complaints, 96 members have been suspended and 12 expelled. 44 more left the party.



But people like Margaret Hodge (who submitted 200 complaints herself) believe that the numbers are being woefully understated. And there's been very little engagement from party leadership.

It looks like there was a lot of action taken then.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ilkhanid wrote: »

Did the "Right-wing" media (that includes the Guardian, now does it?) magic up the Ruth George quote?

That they may have had Israeli backing? Most were members of labour friends of Israel.

She should have blamed the Russkies though. That’s acceptable.

prawnsambo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It looks like there was a lot of action taken then.

'Some' action was taken. Read the article, there are people clearly unhappy with the procedures and lack of transparency. And it clearly still exists. Unless you think that the stuff on Twitter today was inconsequential.

prawnsambo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That they may have had Israeli backing? Most were members of labour friends of Israel.

She should have blamed the Russkies though. That’s acceptable.

Not in the Labour party I believe. If you have evidence that the Russians killed one of your citizens, you're supposed to send it to them and get them to investigate themselves. Apparently.

LuckyLloyd

prawnsambo wrote: »

This isn't merdia driven and it's not about centrist 'yearnings'. This is coming from Labour Party members and MPs. Here are some stats for you. Since April 2018 (10 months), there have been 673 complaints, 96 members have been suspended and 12 expelled. 44 more left the party.



But people like Margaret Hodge (who submitted 200 complaints herself) believe that the numbers are being woefully understated. And there's been very little engagement from party leadership.

Allegations have been constantly made since he took over as leader. As I posted above, inquiries (internal and impartial) have looked into it and concluded there is no fundamental issue. The allegations that are made are all looked into: hence the instances of internal sanctions.

Any problems here are those of British society rather than the Labour Party, as concluded previously. Those who keep pushing keep doing so because it has stuck. The same people will forget about the issue once there is a leadership change, just you wait and see.

Brera

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

With those kind of figures the tories could romp home in the next GE. I don’t think the IG will take a labour seat but they could split the vote to allow tories win in any constituency.

May has effectively been saved.

It’s like the 80s all over again. Thatcher easily one three terms because labour and it’s far left leadership were unelectable to the British public.

Corbyn is exactly the same.

First past the post makes it nearly impossible for a new party to make a brake through.

As you said they will just take votes from labour and allow the Tories to gain seats !

The sad thing is some of those MPs in this independent group are really capable and now they more than likely won’t go any where.

Water John

If they get a raft of LB Councillors to jump, then they will have a good selection of viable candidates esp around London.

prawnsambo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Allegations have been constantly made since he took over as leader. As I posted above, inquiries (internal and impartial) have looked into it and concluded there is no fundamental issue. The allegations that are made are all looked into: hence the instances of internal sanctions.

Any problems here are those of British society rather than the Labour Party, as concluded previously. Those who keep pushing keep doing so because it has stuck. The same people will forget about the issue once there is a leadership change, just you wait and see.

These are Labour members and MPs. You keep forgetting this. Conveniently I suspect. The issue with any kind of discrimination or hate crime is that the people who experience it are almost always told that it's imaginary. By people who don't experience it. You were presented with evidence today and just walked past it without comment. Because it doesn't suit your narrative. And it's almost laughable that your source for rebuttal is Wikipedia. I'm not saying that Wikipedia is inaccurate, it's that the sum total of your knowledge was so poor that that's where you went for rebuttal.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Brera wrote: »

It’s like the 80s all over again. Thatcher easily one three terms because labour and it’s far left leadership were unelectable to the British public.

Corbyn is exactly the same.

First past the post makes it nearly impossible for a new party to make a brake through.

As you said they will just take votes from labour and allow the Tories to gain seats !

The sad thing is some of those MPs in this independent group are really capable and now they more than likely won’t go any where.

There’s no indication Corbyn was unelectable before the split. It’s also not the 80s, the left would have dominated in ten years given the demographics.

They still might.

Franz Von Peppercorn

prawnsambo wrote: »

These are Labour members and MPs. You keep forgetting this. Conveniently I suspect. The issue with any kind of discrimination or hate crime is that the people who experience it are almost always told that it's imaginary. By people who don't experience it. You were presented with evidence today and just walked past it without comment. Because it doesn't suit your narrative. And it's almost laughable that your source for rebuttal is Wikipedia. I'm not saying that Wikipedia is inaccurate, it's that the sum total of your knowledge was so poor that that's where you went for rebuttal.

It’s all very identity politics isn’t it.

As I said 40% of hostile tweets to British MPs were to Diane Abbot. A black woman, visible minority and friend of Corbyn.

ilkhanid

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That they may have had Israeli backing? Most were members of labour friends of Israel.

Which includes no less than 80 Labour members and "LFI supports a Two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with Israel recognised and secure within its borders, and the establishment of a viable Palestinian state".

Yes, very suspicious, bound to be receiving bribes in brown envelopes, the filthy Zionist scoundrels. After all. we know that LFI member = Zionist and Zionist= untrustworthy, disloyal, liable to be corruptible and dangerous. Right? So, what exactly does Ruth George have to apologise for at all? In your book, she's obviously on the ball, a woman of sound instincts and judgement, good at sniffing out the j....oops!

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

She should have blamed the Russkies though. That’s acceptable.

Well, yes, it is...when you consider that they have murdered a British person and tried to murder more.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190

Potentially more to follow suit tomorrow?

Memnoch

ilkhanid wrote: »

Did the "Right-wing" media (that includes the Guardian, now does it?) magic up the Ruth George quote?

The Guardian have been steadfast in their efforts to smear and undermine Corbyn from the moment he became leader of the labour party.

I don't know what 'wing' they are. They are a feminist paper (which is fine) now. Economically they seem to be keen not to see tax loopholes closed by someone like Corbyn, which is unsurprising considering their ownership.

prawnsambo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It’s all very identity politics isn’t it.

As I said 40% of hostile tweets to British MPs were to Diane Abbot. A black woman, visible minority and friend of Corbyn.

Are you expecting me to agree with that? For the record I don't. This isn't about pushing an identity to overcome discrimination. It's about fear. It's about being isolated and your complaints brushed under the carpet. But mostly it's about emboldening those who feel that they can crawl out of the woodwork and carry out their hate campaign with impunity. And poor deflection there. Diane Abbot has no relevance to this.

L1011

Memnoch wrote: »

The Guardian have been steadfast in their efforts to smear and undermine Corbyn from the moment he became leader of the labour party.

I don't know what 'wing' they are. They are a feminist paper (which is fine) now. Economically they seem to be keen not to see tax loopholes closed by someone like Corbyn, which is unsurprising considering their ownership.

Their ownership is a charitable trust and they lose money anyway.

Are you thinking of the other Labour supporting paper perchance (The Mirror)?

Harry Palmr

Memnoch wrote: »

The Guardian have been steadfast in their efforts to smear and undermine Corbyn from the moment he became leader of the labour party.

I don't know what 'wing' they are. They are a feminist paper (which is fine) now. Economically they seem to be keen not to see tax loopholes closed by someone like Corbyn, which is unsurprising considering their ownership.

Given the Guardian has run campaigns to end tax abuse I think you are misreading them.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/paradise-papers

Brera

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There’s no indication Corbyn was unelectable before the split. It’s also not the 80s, the left would have dominated in ten years given the demographics.

They still might.

A far left Labour Party is unelectable. If he hadn’t been leader they would have beaten May in the last election.

Harry Palmr

Get rid of Corbyn, McDonnell (and Suemus Milne) and put in Stamar/Cooper and Labour would be rescued overnight.

Tom Mann Centuria

In a surprise to no one Ian Austin has apparently joined the not a party party. Also no surprise they're doing the drip drip drip announcements just like they did before with shadow front bench resignations. Wonder who's penciled in for the rest of the week, maybe Nicky Morgan from the Tories for one of the days?

Harry Palmr

Anyone following Owen Jones (grauniad hack and Corbyn cheerleader) on twitter?

prawnsambo

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Anyone following Owen Jones (grauniad hack and Corbyn cheerleader) on twitter?

No. He's actually not a bad journalist, he just has a complete blind spot for the Labour party. And Crobyn in particular. He goes all Piers Morgan on that subject. Why? Has he completely lost the plot about the defections?

Edit: To answer my own question, yes, yes he has. Almost live-tweeting anything negative he can find on them. He's certainly giving them plenty of publicity.

Roger_007

Some of the defectors have talked about forming a new party of the centre. There would be no point in forming another party where they would be fighting the Lib Dems for the same votes.
There are going to a lot of Labour MPs looking for a new political home if the rumours of up to 100 deselections prove to be true. There may also be other Tory MPs leaving their party.
Why don't they all just join the Lib Dems.
It seems to me that they wouldn't be uncomfortable in that party on policy issues. They would also stand some chance of having a decent number of MPs returned at the next election. If they form a new party they have no chance with the FPTP electoral system.

prawnsambo

Roger_007 wrote: »

Some of the defectors have talked about forming a new party of the centre. There would be no point in forming another party where they would be fighting the Lib Dems for the same votes.
There are going to a lot of Labour MPs looking for a new political home if the rumours of up to 100 deselections prove to be true. There may also be other Tory MPs leaving their party.
Why don't they all just join the Lib Dems.
It seems to me that they wouldn't be uncomfortable in that party on policy issues. They would also stand some chance of having a decent number of MPs returned at the next election. If they form a new party they have no chance with the FPTP electoral system.

They probably will. But Vince Cable is about as charismatic as a wet paper bag, so he'd have to go. In fact, it could possibly be better for the Lib Dems to be absorbed into them rather than the other way around.

Roger_007

prawnsambo wrote: »

They probably will. But Vince Cable is about as charismatic as a wet paper bag, so he'd have to go. In fact, it could possibly be better for the Lib Dems to be absorbed into them rather than the other way around.

I could see Chuka Umunna leading the Lib Dems at some time in the future. He has a bit of substance and charisma about him.

prawnsambo

Roger_007 wrote: »

I could see Chuka Umunna leading the Lib Dems at some time in the future. He has a bit of substance and charisma about him.

Yeah. To be fair, there are a few in that grouping who would be immeasurably better than Cable. But Umunna would be a good shout and is very popular.

murphaph

Lib Dems are damaged goods among many because of tuition fees. That won't quickly be forgotten (because people are still repaying student loans). It would be better for the country if they themselves merged into the IG. I hope they can see that.

Tom Mann Centuria

The new company are, as George Monbiot has accurately described them, Conservatism minus Brexit. That's the brave new dawn we should enthuse about is it?

robinph

Funny this morning hearing the people being interviewed in the various constituencies saying they voted for Brexit and that they think their MP should have stuck it out in the party and not defected.