MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

Gringo180

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Her apology for 'mis-speaking' is like something from The Thick of It.

https://twitter.com/angelasmithmp/status/1097518807357288448

Embarrassing. Thats the new party already dead and buried.

Hurrache

Are you ignoring everything since before the referendum up until today and just focusing on that proposal?

As someone said, a bag of turds would have made more political hay against the conservatives given the mess they've made.

super_furry

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

rethoric of people who dislike Corbyn because he's a socialist:

"his handling of brexit is abysmal".

It's really not. Socially I'd align myself with the left and up until Brexit, thought he was doing a decent job. I don't anymore, and not just because "his handling of brexit is abysmal", although it truly is.

I struggle to see how anyone can think he's doing a good job, when faced with the most inept, useless broken Tory party there's possibly ever been, he's still losing ground to them.

jm08

Gringo180 wrote: »

Chuka is a 2 faced snake, a tory in disguise, plenty of them have infiltrated the Labour party.

Chucka's grandfather was from Limerick (Helenus Padraic Seosamh Milmo) who was knighted and had quite a distinguished legal career l - part of the Nuremberg trials prosecution team.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helenus_Milmo

quokula

super_furry wrote: »

It's really not. Socially I'd align myself with the left and up until Brexit, thought he was doing a decent job. I don't anymore, and not just because "his handling of brexit is abysmal", although it truly is.

I struggle to see how anyone can think he's doing a good job, when faced with the most inept, useless broken Tory party there's possibly ever been, he's still losing ground to them.

There's only been one election since he became leader and he gained a lot of ground. The tories are scared to call a general election because they know they'll be out.

In what way is he losing ground? Apart from a few self important MPs on the right wing of the party deciding to leave and failing to go a whole day without embarassing themselves making racist comments.

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

It's really not. Socially I'd align myself with the left and up until Brexit, thought he was doing a decent job. I don't anymore, and not just because "his handling of brexit is abysmal", although it truly is.

I struggle to see how anyone can think he's doing a good job, when faced with the most inept, useless broken Tory party there's possibly ever been, he's still losing ground to them.

So what, just abdicate to Tory hegemony out of principle? the Centre are some laugh, willing to throw all under a bus when they don't get their way.

Hurrache

quokula wrote: »

There's only been one election since he became leader and he gained a lot of ground. The tories are scared to call a general election because they know they'll be out.

But this is not true at all. It's farcical that if there was a snap election the conservatives would gain seats.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/02/11/tories-unlikely-gain-enough-seats-solve-brexit-woe

Roger_007

Havockk wrote: »

I would still stand over the argument that Corbyn would win a GE tomorrow. (**before the split that's to say)

I cannot back what these 7 have done. The risk they have taken is unimaginable.

Corbyn would not not win a GE tomorrow, next week, or indeed, ever. He had his chance in 2017 when the Torys ran the most shambolic campaign I have ever seen and yet Labour came nowhere near beating them.
The problem for Corbyn is that the vast majority of British voters are fundamentally conservative, either with a small c, (Labour voters), or with a large C, (Tory voters).
The large youth vote which Corbyn got in the last election will not hold up due mainly to his dithering on the Brexit question. Most Labour MPs are at odds with Corbyn mainly due to Brexit and his stance on the economy.
Despite the Torys being in disarray with an inept leader and totally split on Brexit, they would still do better than Labour in a GE.
Corbyn is a liability, he is fundamentally a protest politician who found himself in a leadership role and is hopelessly out of his depth. He is like a dog who's spent his life chasing cars, eventually caught up with one but has no idea what to do next.

Hurrache

Havockk wrote: »

So what, just abdicate to Tory hegemony out of principle? the Centre are some laugh, willing to throw all under a bus when they don't get their way.

What does any of this mean with regards to how awful Corbyn has been?

Hurrache

Gringo180 wrote: »

Embarrassing. Thats the new party already dead and buried.

It's not a new party, they're sitting under the independent umbrella.

Tom Mann Centuria

Corbyn has fudged the Labour Brexit position because he has to, and I think he's done a reasonable job. When they are trying to appeal to Northern and Midland working class towns in England they have to acknowledge they were strongly Leave in nearly all constituencies. Whilst also continuing to hold their dominant position in greater London which was Remain.

European politicians have said his option is the best they've been offered by the UK.

Havockk

Hurrache wrote: »

What does any of this mean with regards to how awful Corbyn has been?

I don;t think he has been awful. I think he has an impossible job. This wing of the party was constantly sniping now it has split.

Do you believe this 7 will ride in and rescue Brexit? and if not, then what was teh point?

oscarBravo

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

European politicians have said his option is the best they've been offered by the UK.

If you think that's praise for his option in any meaningful sense, you haven't been paying attention.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Hurrache wrote: »

But this is not true at all. It's farcical that if there was a snap election the conservatives would gain seats.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/02/11/tories-unlikely-gain-enough-seats-solve-brexit-woe

That’s a fairly recent poll but they change every week. In fact the Tories got a bounce from rejecting their own deal with the EU, from UKIP.

Tory remainers are loyal.

And how does a new party stealing votes from labour help thwart Brexit. A hard Brexit is certain now.

Hurrache

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Corbyn has fudged the Labour Brexit position because he has to, and I think he's done a reasonable job. When they are trying to appeal to Northern and Midland working class towns in England they have to acknowledge they were strongly Leave in nearly all constituencies. Whilst also continuing to hold their dominant position in greater London which was Remain.

European politicians have said his option is the best they've been offered by the UK.

No better than May so, party before country.

Franz Von Peppercorn

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you think that's praise for his option in any meaningful sense, you haven't been paying attention.

It’s definitely praise.

Hurrache

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s a fairly recent poll but they change every week.

Did any poll have Labour in a position to win an election?

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't see how. The parallels are there.

If people have to dismiss every outlet in the land because they're criticising Jeremy Corbyn, it makes for a very poor argument to moderate voters why he should be Prime Minister.

Maybe Corbynistas could come up with a name for all this baseless fear mongering. How about project fear?

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Corbyn has fudged the Labour Brexit position because he has to, and I think he's done a reasonable job. When they are trying to appeal to Northern and Midland working class towns in England they have to acknowledge they were strongly Leave in nearly all constituencies. Whilst also continuing to hold their dominant position in greater London which was Remain.

European politicians have said his option is the best they've been offered by the UK.

of course they do, it is basically a Norway plus model.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Hurrache wrote: »

Did any poll have Labour in a position to win an election?

They were ahead in a few polls of course.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Aegir wrote: »

of course they do, it is basically a Norway plus model.

Grand so. No need for a new party.

Hurrache

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

They were ahead in a few polls of course.

But it's shocking that Labour under Corbyn haven't been able to make this consistent.

Looks like a handful of polls in the summer of 2018 and that's it, the rest is pathetic.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Uk2022polling15average.png/800px-Uk2022polling15average.png


There's no viable opposition in the house of commons.

Tom Mann Centuria

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you think that's praise for his option in any meaningful sense, you haven't been paying attention.

I'm not the one who called these 7 MPs "principled", so paying attention may not be your strong suit either.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Hurrache wrote: »

But it's shocking that Labour under Corbyn haven't been able to make this consistent. There's no viable opposition in the house of commons.

The assumption that the conservatives would collapse with another labour leader is unproven. In fact labour can’t abandon their working class base, so they would always fudge Brexit.

Hurrache

Nobody is saying that another Labour leader will collapse the Conservatives, they are saying a better leader would pull Labour up.

MrMusician18

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ironically enough, that's the sort of rhetoric UKIP supporters come out with.

Nonsense. Corbyn was never given a fair crack of the whip apart from during the election when it was legally required.

The majority of the press have displayed outright hostility to him with the neutral BBC holding him in thinly veiled contempt from day one.

All because he proposes to renationalise a few railways and neuter their war machine. The criticism of Corbyn has never been fair because the press/establishment detest him.

MrMusician18

Hurrache wrote: »

Nobody is saying that another Labour leader will collapse the Conservatives, they are saying a better leader would pull Labour up.

Who? Where's the alternative in the party that doesn't alienate one faction or the other?

Hurrache

OK, so it's all the media's fault for making him look bad.

oscarBravo

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I'm not the one who called these 7 MPs "principled"...

Neither am I. And before you go quoting the post where you think I did, read it carefully.

Tom Mann Centuria

oscarBravo wrote: »

Neither am I. And before you go quoting the post where you think I did, read it carefully.

How about:

If you think these 7 MPs do anything "principled", paying attention may not be your strong suit either.

This game is fun.

MrMusician18

Hurrache wrote: »

OK, so it's all the media's fault for making him look bad.

Will they keep running the AS non-story in order to oust him.

The AS story was great for those in the anti Corbyn faction. They could self generate headlines and crisis at any time they pleased. And boy have they made hay and destroyed their party in the process.

I did have to laugh at the band of 7 being called the chicken coup earlier though.