Memories of corporal punishment

Plumbthedepths

realitykeeper wrote:

The Holy Nuns and the Christian and Presentation Brothers were wonderful educators in my experience. The lay teachers by contrast were brutal.

My experience of nuns and the religious were that they were child abusing scum. We all don't share the same opinion. ;-)

realitykeeper

is_that_so wrote: »

No, this shows up in very small ways in our daily lives the further we go from a time period, where misremembered events can become actual truth. Very common in families!

You seem to be confusing confusion with false memory syndrome.

Sardonicat

Never heard of the order 'The Holy Nuns'. Where did they have their schools?

Now, there's trolling for divilment, and there's trolling for the sake of it. Trolling with the sole purpose of setting people up to reveal traumatic experiences so you you can dismiss, rubbish and belittle them is the work of a genuine arsehole. You really are a piece of work. I feel sorry for the people who have to be around you IRL.

It's long since passed the time for me to unfollow. I'm not giving anymore oxygen to the excremental drivel you spew.

Fourier

4ensic15 wrote: »

How does the context of this thread make
1. teaching a prestigious career;
2. Make it one of the 3 most prestigious careers;
3. Accountancy, engineering and law modern careers?

Teaching only became a career in the 19th century and teachers were known as "bum bruisers" which shows what they were employed to do.

In pre-1990s Catholic Ireland the three careers Paddy Cow listed were considered the main prestigious and "pillar of the community" careers in rural Irish towns and villages. This can be seen from anybody's basic memory of the period and is explicitly acknowledged in social studies of the time.

The existence of accountancy, engineering and law in ancient Babylon does not preclude this. The blatantly obvious "context" Paddy is referring to is actual life in Ireland at the time. Arguing about the existence of other careers in the Bronze Age Levant is utterly stupid in the context of the thread.

is_that_so

realitykeeper wrote: »

You seem to be confusing confusion with false memory syndrome.

Nah, not a bit. Confusion is about uncertainty about things that did occur. I'm talking about things we're convinced that happened. They don't have to relate to any trauma. We do it all the time and it can cause all manner of problems to others and collective memories.

Edgware

....... wrote: »

Not codswallop at all.

Children were beaten in our primary school in the late 70s for being left handed.

Maybe in the 30s 40s but in the 70s? I dont believe you but dream on

JupiterKid

OP your username is an obvious wind up and you are an obvious troll.

You couldn't be more divorced from reality if you tried. Your blanket denial of the regime of brutality and terror in the Irish education system up until the 1980s/90s would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.

Paddy Cow summed it up brilliantly. Miserable, sexually frustrated religious inflicting misery and terror on small children. Many lay teachers were just as bad because that was the culture that pervaded back then.

I myself thankfully escaped being hit at school but still remember the snide/verbally abusive attitudes in the classroom and being in complete fear of a cub scout leader who was like a drill sergeant and used to take his anger out verbally on 8 and 9 year old boys in the 80s. Lovely stuff...

ohnonotgmail

Edgware wrote: »

Maybe in the 30s 40s but in the 70s? I dont believe you but dream on

out of curiosity how old are you?

Plumbthedepths

ohnonotgmail wrote:

out of curiosity how old are you?

Best not to feed it.

ohnonotgmail

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Best not to feed it.

I'm genuinely curious. Some people refuse to believe what happened before they were born because they cannot comprehend it.

Plumbthedepths

ohnonotgmail wrote:

I'm genuinely curious. Some people refuse to believe what happened before they were born because they cannot comprehend it.

Fine if someone genuinely can't comprehend, but a response of 'codswallop' is for no purpose other than to incite a negative response.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote:

The 'good sisters' tried to beat it out me in the mid 70's I was 4/5 years old, I would often go home in agony. Terrified to go to school the next day. This went on for several weeks.It took my father to suggest where he would leave his size 10 army boot for them to stop.

Edgware wrote:

Mid 70s? Codswallop

My experience of being left-handed in school.
The response I received . That's not someone who can't comprehend.

.......

Edgware wrote: »

Maybe in the 30s 40s but in the 70s? I dont believe you but dream on

Why dont you believe it?

Plenty of evidence out there. Plenty of people telling you it happened in here.

Are you just trying to upset people by denying their reality because you get some kind of kick out of doing that?

Ive never really understood the "looking for attention by being a dick online" attitude myself, but hey, have at it - it doesnt matter to me what you believe!

Snow Garden

realitykeeper wrote: »

The Holy Nuns and the Christian and Presentation Brothers were wonderful educators in my experience. The lay teachers by contrast were brutal.

What you call Stolkholm Syndrome, others would call that forgiveness. The term Stolkholm syndrome is often sited by embittered people who simply don`t want to forgive. Let us hope the victims of their malace are of a kinder disposition.

You're priceless. Warped I know but I think the whole purpose of your thread was to gloss over the abuse and cruelty of the religious orders and somehow suggest the end justified the means. It has spectacularly backfired and now you look like an idiot.

realitykeeper

Edgware wrote: »

Maybe in the 30s 40s but in the 70s? I dont believe you but dream on

Absolutely agree and somehow I doubt that was the only pork pie in the factory.

byhookorbycrook

Edgware wrote: »

Maybe in the 30s 40s but in the 70s? I dont believe you but dream on

I’m one of those children. And I didn’t dream it. My late mother was also left handed and after one particularly bad beating , she went to the school to talk to the nun in question . This was practically unheard of at the time - imagine a parent looking to question a nun.

ohnonotgmail

realitykeeper wrote: »

Absolutely agree and somehow I doubt that was the only pork pie in the factory.

all of this was still happening in the 70's. But somehow everybody else is lying and only you know the truth

realitykeeper

Snow Garden wrote: »

You're priceless. Warped I know but I think the whole purpose of your thread was to gloss over the abuse and cruelty of the religious orders and somehow suggest the end justified the means. It has spectacularly backfired and now you look like an idiot.

Do I detect a hint of bias? For my part, I fully acknowledge the Christian Brothers administered the odd clout to the deserving but the question we must ask is did they hit you hard enough?

ohnonotgmail

realitykeeper wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of bias? For my part, I fully acknowledge the Christian Brothers administered the odd clout to the deserving but the question we must ask is did they hit you hard enough?

Your omniscience is truly awe-inspiring.

.......

realitykeeper wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of bias? For my part, I fully acknowledge the Christian Brothers administered the odd clout to the deserving but the question we must ask is did they hit you hard enough?

They say that survivors of abuse can suffer feelings of empathy towards their abusers, think that they were right somehow.

A bit like Stockholm syndrome.

It must have been a particularly damaging experience for you to have come out the other end actually defending it.

Snow Garden

realitykeeper wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of bias? For my part, I fully acknowledge the Christian Brothers administered the odd clout to the deserving but the question we must ask is did they hit you hard enough?

You're a classic

Graces7

Sardonicat wrote: »

Nope. I experienced some awful physical and worse psychological abuse at a primary school in England in the 70s. Boys got caned, girls got hit with a plimsoll. Little boys got their heads violently knocked together. All par for the course in those days.

What was different was the manner in which it was dealt out. Over there is seemed very structured and deliberate; eg. "Sardonicat, for talking in class you will go to headmaster's office and get slapped at half two" Whereas as here you'd feel a clatter across your ear and then be told "Stop talking!" The psychological abuse and power trips were just the same though.

same as us in the late 40s early 50s in the UK.

A hard slap or 6 on the open palms with a ruler and the lads lining up outside the head;s office for caning.

What was more damaging was the other shaming abuses and punishments. I was sent to every class in the school wit my first attempt as a doll's scarf. all holey it was. That actually was far more damaging than the ruler slaps . Put me off knitting for many years.

Graces7

is_that_so wrote: »

One of the problems of the CBS is that they were kids themselves when they went in at the age of 14 to be educated. They then spent their life around men, some of them very dogmatic, some with no social skills and some downright brutal. For many people who did get a clatter it was the accepted way that society disciplined misbehaviour in children. It does not excuse the outright violence of some so-called teachers.

same applies to all the religious orders here. it was not vocation as we know it now. I have a friend who is about my age ( late 70s) and lived in cork in her childhood and teens.

every Friday every house would be visited by Sisters/ priests to ask " which of your children are you giving to God?"

familes were large and there was poverty. a child in the Brs or Mercies would be fed and housed all their lives, and buried decently

The church altered the basic demographics of ireland by taking many thousands of marriagable age women out of circulation. Hence why the population was so slow to start growing after the Famine

Edgware

realitykeeper wrote: »

Absolutely agree and somehow I doubt that was the only pork pie in the factory.

Pork pie mmmmm

AndrewJRenko

realitykeeper wrote: »

Do I detect a hint of bias? For my part, I fully acknowledge the Christian Brothers administered the odd clout to the deserving but the question we must ask is did they hit you hard enough?

Was I deserving of a clout as a 7 year old who went to the loo shortly after lunch with teacher's permission?

Snow Garden

....... wrote: »

It must have been a particularly damaging experience for you to have come out the other end actually defending it.

Shure this fella never actually got hit...his original post had this;

Even when I was not the recipient of this form of punishment but just a witness, it was very frightening......I retain tremendous respect for one teacher who beat and terrified kids but got the job done.

Honestly I think he needs to talk to someone. There is hidden trauma somewhere.

Recliner

realitykeeper wrote: »

it was very frightening - especially when the children were punished for things like poor homework or classwork (as opposed to behaving badly).

Anyone else have, memories of corporal punishment, be they witnessed or experienced? If so, you might find it cathartic to share them (or not).

I do remember the various impliments used. A duster, a strong angular stick, a leather, a short rounded stick, a hand, a pencil. Scary stuff for a seven year old.

I find this strange. You opened this thread, expressed a wish for others to share their experiences, and spoke of the possible cathartic benefit of doing so. You have then persisted in telling all who did that they have false memories and/or that the abuse was probably deserved and extolling the virtues of religious orders.
Why exactly did you open this thread?

Plumbthedepths

realitykeeper wrote:

Recently I was thinking of my school days when corporal punishment was practiced. Even when I was not the recipient of this form of punishment but just a witness, it was very frightening - especially when the children were punished for things like poor homework or classwork (as opposed to behaving badly).

The above makes me believe this is nothing but a troll thread for you and 2 others.

4ensic15

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Was I deserving of a clout as a 7 year old who went to the loo shortly after lunch with teacher's permission?

We don't know what you did to deserve it. It was only 1 clout anyway so why get worked up about it?

ToddyDoody

I'm too young to remember it myself but the mother was telling me about an early reading lesson.

You had to read 'the cat sat on the mat' satisfactorily and would get a good crack from the nun if you couldn't do it.

Simpler times.

ohnonotgmail

4ensic15 wrote: »

We don't know what you did to deserve it. It was only 1 clout anyway so why get worked up about it?

they told you what happened. You seem to think everybody else on the thread is lying

realitykeeper

Recliner wrote: »

I find this strange. You opened this thread, expressed a wish for others to share their experiences, and spoke of the possible cathartic benefit of doing so. You have then persisted in telling all who did that they have false memories and/or that the abuse was probably deserved and extolling the virtues of religious orders.
Why exactly did you open this thread?

For the reasons stated. I do however take issue with the targeting of the religious by people who may or may not have been treated harshly by them. Some may simply be anti religious without ever having crossed paths with a Christian Brother. This is part of a dangerous trend, it was probably like this in Russia a hundred tears ago when people were outraged with Rasputin and there were probably other scandals (real or manufactured) against the Orthodox Church at that time. Decades of misery were the consequence.

Bogwoppit

I’ve read through a lot of the thread but not all.

What’s the latest people have said they’ve been subject to corporal punishment at school?

I finished primary school on the mid 90’s and regularly had metre sticks, bamboo, slaps etc.

sligojoek

realitykeeper wrote: »

For the reasons stated. I do however take issue with the targeting of the religious by people who may or may not have been treated harshly by them. Some may simply be anti religious without ever having crossed paths with a Christian Brother. This is part of a dangerous trend, it was probably like this in Russia a hundred tears ago when people were outraged with Rasputin and there were probably other scandals (real or manufactured) against the Orthodox Church at that time. Decades of misery were the consequence.

You must have been some kind of teacher's pet. Was your dad a solicitor or a businessman or a guard? Their kids were never touched.

From the age of 6 or 7 till I got out of the CBS to a tech/vocational school, I witnessed some of the most horrific physical, sexual and mental cruelty. All of it by CBS or their lay lickarses. Young children who made silly mistakes taken out and walloped relentlessly with leather straps and sticks. Teachers pets taken to the monastery (Posh name for the brothers' house) for "Latin lessons".

I could give you a list of names of brothers and lay teachers along with a very long list of victims off the top of my head without even trying. But I'd get myself banned and get boards in hot water with, you guessed it, solicitors.

Recliner

realitykeeper wrote: »

For the reasons stated. I do however take issue with the targeting of the religious by people who may or may not have been treated harshly by them. Some may simply be anti religious without ever having crossed paths with a Christian Brother. This is part of a dangerous trend, it was probably like this in Russia a hundred tears ago when people were outraged with Rasputin and there were probably other scandals (real or manufactured) against the Orthodox Church at that time. Decades of misery were the consequence.

People don't have to have been treated harshly by them to be anti-religious. That's a personal choice and one which anyone is freely entitled to. It may not be your choice, but that doesn't make them wrong.
Also, not all of the recollections involved the religious orders, there were plenty of lay teachers spoken about.
And the bottom line still is that children in this country who were educated in a certain era did suffer abuse. Myself included. My memory is perfectly sound and my experiences require no embellishment.
There's no trend here, simply people sharing.
And if you think there hasn't been decades of misey as a result of these abuses and worse, well then you just haven't been paying attention. And by the way, I still don't understand why you opened this thread.

AndrewJRenko

4ensic15 wrote: »

We don't know what you did to deserve it. It was only 1 clout anyway so why get worked up about it?

I told you exactly what happened. Why are you evading answering?

Do you routinely hit seven year olds in your family?

Graces7

Originally Posted by realitykeeper
For the reasons stated. I do however take issue with the targeting of the religious by people who may or may not have been treated harshly by them. Some may simply be anti religious without ever having crossed paths with a Christian Brother. This is part of a dangerous trend, it was probably like this in Russia a hundred tears ago when people were outraged with Rasputin and there were probably other scandals (real or manufactured) against the Orthodox Church at that time. Decades of misery were the consequence.

Please google "Letterfrack". look at the Boys' Graveyard there. Boys of 6 upwards apparently commiting terrible crimes and being incarcerated then abused, and dying of that abuse .

read the reports please and get some better balance ?

Somewhere I spent many hours trying to absorb that reality. nearly 100 graves and they found more buried in the dark woods there. Where I never heard a bird sing.

I do hear you that not every single CB or Sister was an abuser. I know also that those who dared to object were thrown out on the street in times when there was no social welfare and they were seen as a disgrace to their families.

And I do hear you that you need to think that they were not as they were. But letterfrack is a prime example of what really went on.

If you read Ryan and murphy, many of those abused say firmly that although they were abused, there were always good, gentle sisters there too.

OldMrBrennan83

Used to get a good few clips with a long ruler and a drum stick but it was always warranted. Had manners in my teens and still have them now so maybe it should never have stopped. The likes of people of these schools like educate togethers are going to turn out is scary.

Graces7

I was talking about this with a lady who grew up in Cork in the 50s onwards.

We realised that every Sister and Brother who abused and was cruel was Irish born and bred.

That "the church" here was 100 Irish and was largely autonomous ie there was no instruction to abuse or cruelty . Far from it

And that the irish state supported the Orders

ie condoned and approved and thus committed the abuses of every kind

Further, the massive abuse in Australia and NZ, Canada was also committed by Irish priests, Sisters, Brothers, many of them those expelled from Ireland for abuse

one real anomaly though.

google "Canadian Holocaust"? The three main churches united to try to exterminate First Nation and Inuit children for their land. the stats are appalling

Ireland abused and killed its own people. Its own children

Many experts call it genocide

There was no alien force here. It all came from within Ireland

Past times now thankfully and time to look forwards.

Wanderer78

OldMrBrennan83 wrote:

Used to get a good few clips with a long ruler and a drum stick but it was always warranted. Had manners in my teens and still have them now so maybe it should never have stopped. The likes of people of these schools like educate togethers are going to turn out is scary.

Whys that?

OldMrBrennan83

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Whys that?

Because the environment will produce self entitled, mannerless, brats of adults. Even if it's not physical, children need some form of discipline to be decent adults.

Wanderer78

OldMrBrennan83 wrote:

Because the environment will produce self entitled, mannerless, brats of adults. Even if it's not physical, children need some form of discipline to be decent adults.

Hahaha, ffs!

Snow Garden

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Used to get a good few clips with a long ruler and a drum stick but it was always warranted. Had manners in my teens and still have them now so maybe it should never have stopped. The likes of people of these schools like educate togethers are going to turn out is scary.

You really don't know much about Educate Together schools, do you?

realitykeeper

Recliner wrote: »

People don't have to have been treated harshly by them to be anti-religious. That's a personal choice and one which anyone is freely entitled to. It may not be your choice, but that doesn't make them wrong.

That is a matter of opinion but as I was saying, some people lie. It is wrong to lie and to do so simply because you are against the religious would suggest a measure of hypocracy.

Recliner wrote: »

Also, not all of the recollections involved the religious orders, there were plenty of lay teachers spoken about.

I did not say all the allegations pertained to the religious, mine for example pertained to the lay teachers.

Recliner wrote: »

And the bottom line still is that children in this country who were educated in a certain era did suffer abuse. Myself included. My memory is perfectly sound and my experiences require no embellishment.
There's no trend here, simply people sharing.
And if you think there hasn't been decades of misey as a result of these abuses and worse, well then you just haven't been paying attention. And by the way, I still don't understand why you opened this thread.

Children`s schooling did not go on for decades, little longer than ten years perhaps. However, in turning against the religious, Irish people seem to have turned against God also. The decades of misery I refered to pertained to Russia following it`s rejection of God. Most people born in that country a hundred years ago would have suffered their entire lives because it was Godless. No wonder Russia has returned to God. In rejecting God, Ireland is setting itself up for a miserable future, this would have been obvious had you paid attention to what I posted.

ohnonotgmail

realitykeeper wrote: »

That is a matter of opinion but as I was saying, some people lie. It is wrong to lie and to do so simply because you are against the religious would suggest a measure of hypocracy.

Do you know what is also wrong? Accusing people you dont know of lying because they are saying things you dont want to hear.

realitykeeper

Graces7 wrote: »

If you read Ryan and murphy, many of those abused say firmly that although they were abused, there were always good, gentle sisters there too.

Yet when one makes mention of these holy nuns, one is admonished and made a pariah. Society is on a witch hunt and I would not be surprised if a kristallnacht were to befall the Church in Ireland. This is the same church in which priests risked there lives at the time of the penal laws when congregations prayed beneath ditches in the rain. Recently, someone said to me the churches should be turned over to the homeless and people who want to go to mass should go out in the fields again. He was not as keen when I suggested using public houses to house the homeless.

Plumbthedepths

realitykeeper wrote:

Yet when one makes mention of these holy nuns, one is admonished and made a pariah. Society is on a witch hunt and I would not be surprised if a kristallnacht were to befall the Church in Ireland. This is the same church in which priests risked there lives at the time of the penal laws when congregations prayed beneath ditches in the rain. Recently, someone said to me the churches should be turned over to the homeless and people who want to go to mass should go out in the fields again. He was not as keen when I suggested using public houses to house the homeless.

The religious mask has slipped, another sad deluded apologist for the abusers who tormented, raped and murdered children. I'm amazed people like you still think your church did no wrong but the fact you only try to defend the abuse by using an anonymous forum says it all about your conviction. I suggest you say your bs in a social setting, see how that works out for you.

PopePalpatine

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I suggest you say your bs in a social setting, see how that works out for you.

Good luck to him, he'll need it to get away with public ****.

Recliner

realitykeeper wrote: »

That is a matter of opinion but as I was saying, some people lie. It is wrong to lie and to do so simply because you are against the religious would suggest a measure of hypocracy.



I did not say all the allegations pertained to the religious, mine for example pertained to the lay teachers.



Children`s schooling did not go on for decades, little longer than ten years perhaps. However, in turning against the religious, Irish people seem to have turned against God also. The decades of misery I refered to pertained to Russia following it`s rejection of God. Most people born in that country a hundred years ago would have suffered their entire lives because it was Godless. No wonder Russia has returned to God. In rejecting God, Ireland is setting itself up for a miserable future, this would have been obvious had you paid attention to what I posted.

Why do you persist in calling people on this thread liars? Where is your proof? Why did you open this thread?
And do you honestly believe that the after effects of abuse stop as soon as someone walks out of the school gates for the last time? That was the "decades" I refer to. But you know that don't you. You just attempt to twist everything to suit your own narrative. And to be honest, you're not even good at that. You've been called out on everything you've said, you've been provided with numerous examples and it's still not enough for you. Do you know what's such a damaging thing to do? To call an abused person a liar. Maybe it's why it was allowed to continue for so long, children were afraid they wouldn't be believed.
Anyway, to all who have shared their stories, I share your pain.

To the OP and fellow trolls, I'm out. You're to be pitied and I'm fresh out of pity today.

4ensic15

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I told you exactly what happened. Why are you evading answering?

Do you routinely hit seven year olds in your family?

All you said was that you went to the toilet with the teacher's permission. There must be more too it. You probably took to long or smirked when you did it.