Memories of corporal punishment

Sorry about that

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh blady blah- spare me the lecture please- I never said it was acceptable- but it was in place in schools up to 1982 and if administered fairly and in a measured way, didn't create long lasting negative impacts on pupils.

My goodness. I’m out.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse? At the time it was accepted as punishment. I have seen idiots justify this b*ll**** by saying "I got a few slaps, never did me any harm".

Look I'm only going by the thread title here, nothing else. Corporal punishment, back in the day, meant a cane or leather or metre stick on the hand usually, for wrongdoing.

That's the thread I was responding to- people are now getting into stories that are much more about serious physical abuse in schools, way over and above what a few slaps of a leather was about which is what the original thread title suggested.

Sorry about that

Sorry about that wrote: »

My goodness. I’m out.

Great. Goodbye.

road_high

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse? At the time it was accepted as punishment. I have seen idiots justify this b*ll**** by saying "I got a few slaps, never did me any harm".

I dont buy that line either- the odd slap from a parent certainly didn’t but in a learning environment where violence was used as weapon to “teach” then that’s a huge issue. These were very good, quiet kids i saw demeaned and bullied and indeed hit by a certain teacher.
Another day a chap was demeaned and ridiculed in front of the whole class because he kept pronouncing ships as chips!
Another chap from England couldn’t say R “properly” so that was an issue. He didn’t care less though as he was confident and sure himself.

Mam of 4

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Look I'm only going by the thread title here, nothing else. Corporal punishment, back in the day, meant a cane or leather or metre stick on the hand usually, for wrongdoing.

That's the thread I was responding to- people are now getting into stories that are much more about serious physical abuse in schools, way over and above what a few slaps of a leather was about which is what the original thread title suggested.

Not nit picking , but for some the Corporal Punishment wasn't a stick , a cane , a belt leather .
It was a box in the head , a twisting of ears , a clatter on the face .

jmreire

Sardonicat wrote: »

Nope. I experienced some awful physical and worse psychological abuse at a primary school in England in the 70s. Boys got caned, girls got hit with a plimsoll. Little boys got their heads violently knocked together. All par for the course in those days.

What was different was the manner in which it was dealt out. Over there is seemed very structured and deliberate; eg. "Sardonicat, for talking in class you will go to headmaster's office and get slapped at half two" Whereas as here you'd feel a clatter across your ear and then be told "Stop talking!" The psychological abuse and power trips were just the same though.

There was no such structure in my school days.....every day had the possibility to get punished.... sure sometimes you knew that you had done something wrong and would pay the price....but on other occasions...everything depended on the "humour" of the teacher. I remember one day, the teacher lined up the whole class, except for 2 guys ( sons of prominent business men ) And he gave each of us 6 slaps of the leather..and this was not an isolated event. This was many years ago,,, but I still remember it. So yes, it was psychological torture as well.

AMKC

Nope never happened to me although I did have a teacher that would twist your ear or crap you by your tie if you were cheeky, said something bold or did not have homework done. There was another teacher in my secondary school who would throw chairs, hammers, them things you used to clear the chalk of the board etc. I honestly do not know how he did not seriously injure or kill a student. You could hear him shouting at the students from outside the room as well.

My Dad has told me of the punishments he used to get do until one day he said no more and stood up to the teacher. He was taller than the teacher bu that stage and never got any beatings after that.

thebaz

TeaBagMania wrote: »

, kick me, or use an instrument on me for no reason... its game on.
Guarantee you the next day teacher/priest would have an appointment with my one handed louisville slugger and might make it back to work the next day if the hospital found fit to release them.

Don't know how you people found the self control to tolerate the abuse

hard to be the tough macho hero, when you are 9 years old, and your bully is a 6 foot 2 20 something - by 16 he wouldn't have tried it

Mam of 4

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Not nit picking , but for some the Corporal Punishment wasn't a stick , a cane , a belt leather .
It was a box in the head , a twisting of ears , a clatter on the face .

Fair enough, obviously my definition was more limited - I didn't experience such violence in my school, other than simple cane/leather for obvious wrong-doing- but the stories being spoken about now are far and above that.

AllForIt

Ok, the seventies in primary school. We weren't beaten in secondary school in the 80''s although I did get one massive clatter once when a pupil beside me made an inappropriate comment and the teacher thought it was me. I probably deserved it.

In primary school, 1976 onwards we had 2 women teachers. The first teacher who taught the juniors had a cane in the press. Later it became knowledge it was taken away from her where she used a wooden spoon instead which was stuck in the sand bucket which we used to play with sometimes. I was the first to get a wollop of it. I recall vividly she left her desk to go for the cane (which had been taken off her as I said) and as she passed the sand bucket she said 'oh look what we have here, a wooden spoon', as if we didn't know even at that age what was going on as she tried to disguise that she didn't have the cane anymore. She really seemed like she took some enjoyment in using it.

I wasn't a bold child at all but I was a bit cheeky sometimes. I note that if there was anything that would incense the teachers most it would be a cheeky comment. I guess in those years showing a bit of personalty was frowned upon being the Catholic school it was.

When we moved classroom to the senior class there wasn't much whooping with a stick going on. One thing I won't forget though, and I hardly every missed a day at school, something happened at home that meant I turned up for school at 10pm, half an hour late. Class was in session and I opened the classroom door and said 'Surprise!'. The teacher got up of her chair, walked over to me and whacked me on the face as hard as she could. I recall being in total shock and quite hurt emotionally. I'll never forgive her for that.

bob mcbob

Sardonicat wrote: »

Nope. I experienced some awful physical and worse psychological abuse at a primary school in England in the 70s. Boys got caned, girls got hit with a plimsoll. Little boys got their heads violently knocked together. All par for the course in those days.

What was different was the manner in which it was dealt out. Over there is seemed very structured and deliberate; eg. "Sardonicat, for talking in class you will go to headmaster's office and get slapped at half two" Whereas as here you'd feel a clatter across your ear and then be told "Stop talking!" The psychological abuse and power trips were just the same though.

This is similar to how it was in Scotland, a punishment and a deterrent. You came in front of the class or headmasters office and got the tawse. The tawse was a leather belt with tails at the end which were tapered to avoid drawing blood.

I got it a number of times but I can only remember once when I did not think I deserved it. Usually it was for something that happened outside during break or lunchtime. I always remember having cold hands and desperately trying to warm them up before the getting hit as it hurt ten times more.

Only boys ever got hit.

It was a mining town though and toughening boys up for life down the pit was part of the system I suppose.

Sardonicat

bob mcbob wrote: »

Sardonicat wrote: »

Nope. I experienced some awful physical and worse psychological abuse at a primary school in England in the 70s. Boys got caned, girls got hit with a plimsoll. Little boys got their heads violently knocked together. All par for the course in those days.

What was different was the manner in which it was dealt out. Over there is seemed very structured and deliberate; eg. "Sardonicat, for talking in class you will go to headmaster's office and get slapped at half two" Whereas as here you'd feel a clatter across your ear and then be told "Stop talking!" The psychological abuse and power trips were just the same though.

This is similar to how it was in Scotland, a punishment and a deterrent. You came in front of the class or headmasters office and got the tawse. The tawse was a leather belt with tails at the end which were tapered to avoid drawing blood.

I got it a number of times but I can only remember once when I did not think I deserved it. Usually it was for something that happened outside during break or lunchtime. I always remember having cold hands and desperately trying to warm them up before the getting hit as it hurt ten times more.

Only boys ever got hit.

It was a mining town though and toughening boys up for life down the pit was part of the system I suppose.

I'm not saying it was better over there, just dished out in a more structured way. The sarcasm and nastiness and psychological abuse was every bit as twisted as it was here in a Catholic school with nuns. By far and away the worse experience I ever had at school came from the hands of a particularly nasty woman who seemed to despise children and me in particular. To cut a very long story short she kept pushing me back into the school swimming pool with the pole while all the other kids were made stand around the pool and laugh at me for being such a big baby. Her problem? I couldn't pull myself up onto the pool side instead of climbing out by the steps. I was completely hysterical and she was clearly enjoying it. This woman once exclaimed in front of the class why she was expected to have teach retards like me when there were special schools for my sort.( I have dyspraxia. Not that anyone knew what that was back then. I was just "slow " and fair game for bullying and abuse) Evil witch.

When I came here that type of abuse stopped and so did the teacher sanctioned bullying. But did have an incredibly vicious, violent and volatile nun in 3rd class. But no one called me a retard anymore or try to force me to do stuff in P. E. that I blatantly couldn't do. I have a feeling that would have been different if I'd been a boy, though

doolox

I recently did a word association test as part of therapy for lifelong mental health problems partly associated with my unhappy school life and two words emerged when school was used as a word: Fear and violence.

When pressed on the subject I can recall a long litany of violent episodes not only involving teachers but other pupils as well.

I was fortunate that there was no sexual incidents involved with any of the teachers as happened in other schools and most if not all the teachers more or less conformed to norms of behaviour accepted at that time.

I recall one teacher assaulting one student during the leaving cert mock exams when he asked to leave 5 minutes early to catch a bus towards the end of one exam.
The altercation was extremely violent and involved much shouting and remonstration about using the lords name in vain. The teacher was a lay teacher so had no religious status like a priest or brother but the sanctimonious and vile creature slammed the hapless students head into a solid desk several times in front of a whole class of appalled and stunned classmates.

I do not recall any repercussions against the teacher but we would not have been told anyway.

I do recall a tense 4-5 weeks before sitting the real LC and then getting my results the following August. Rather than risk saying anything rash in anger I kept up a barely contained and stony silence with all the teachers and staff after that incident. I couldn't leave that school fast enough. I recall flinching when I attended third level colleges years later when receiving coaching on maths problems and the lecturer took pains to assure me that I was not going to be hit for making mistakes. He was appalled at my explanation for my flinching being due to previous experiences of being hit for making mistakes in maths in secondary school.

I learned later on in life that the particular student died of drug problems later on in his life.

The formation and education system in this country was disastrously bad in the sense that it stunted the development and potential of many people through ignorance, class repression and religious brain washing in an almost toxic degree. Only in the last 2 decades have improvements been made to make the most of our pupils and students but huge improvements are still needed in physical education and life skills formation.

pawrick

I've had some dealings with people who had been abused in schools via a past job and it was genuinely shocking speaking with them and hearing about how they suffered. So much was ignored as corporal punishment rather than called out as abuse which even then should have been unacceptable.

As an 80's kid things were starting to change when I was in national school, however there was a nun in my school who would randomly take out her mood swings on the boys in our class. She always referred to us as the "bad boys" and the girls as the "good girls". One lad in particular would get beat a few times a week by her, he was going through a rough time at home as his mother was dying of cancer. Every week for things as minor as having a shoe lace open, not knowing the words to a hymm or not having his homework signed off he was getting beat with a stick or an open hand where ever she could hit him as he squarmed to avoid the slaps, all this while his dad was trying to care for his wife and hold the family together while clearly suffering depression looking back now. He was only 10 at the time and I will always remember how he was treated by this nun with no consideration to what this child was going through. He over dosed a few years back and i think a lot of his issues stemmed back to this period in his life.

Sardonicat

^^^^^
Utterly sick and twisted

uck51js9zml2yt

I remember being hit for getting geography questions wrong. 2 on each hand for each question.
My mother had to go down to him in the end. He never did it again.

Saying that, the best teacher I had was paddy crosbie.
The worst, a failed brother who left and got married and continued teaching. He made me hate school.
Thankfully I moved schools after 1st year to a mixed country school. Really enjoyed it.

doolox

They always appeared to know which pupils came from a poor, non influential background and hammered them with impunity while neatly avoiding laying a finger on the sons of more powerful city figures in my school.

My father had to call into my national school for a "chat" with one vicious maths teacher who kept picking on me for maths mistakes and errors.

I was left alone after that chat but I was never told by my father what transpired in that meeting.

I hope that instructions were issued for my safety and welfare going forward and they were carried out.

The picking on and beatings stopped. They continued for other less fortunate boys.

nineteen66

The whole education system in this country in the past was full of bullies and pigs who should have never been let near children. The whole country was rotten, politicians, clergy, guards,the list goes on..... I was beat by lay teachers and nuns in primary school until I was 7,then the Patrician Brothers and lay teachers took over till I was 12.
Secondary school was the same till I left in 1982 at 16.
My abiding memory of school in my early years a feeling of dread ,frequent bedwetting and nightmares, and terrified of the teachers! I had a cutn of a brother in 3rd class who used to hit us with a drumstick! A male lay teacher in 4th used bamboo rods when the mood took him,that priÄk went on to be headmaster years later!
Secondary school was no better,plenty of thugs of teachers who would pick on the weaker students.
One of the best days of my life was the day I left school,with little or no self confidence. I look back a see a scared little boy / young man who had a constant feeling of dread hanging over him .
Thankfully my kids love going to school,have really good teachers that are properly trained and actually enjoy teaching!!!
Ireland had a really shameful past in so many ways.
I'm grand,things turned out pretty good for me, although I drank heavily for 25 years to blot out the pain,now only have a few beers a couple of times a year.I've a good wife and kids,healthy, no money worries and a job I love,but I still think of my school days with dread.
I hope all those thousands of bully teachers are tormented in their latter years with regard to how they beat, abused ,both mentally and physically, all the children they were supposed to teach and nurture.
I haven't posted in years but that was great to get of my chest!

EdgeCase

I didn't get beaten up, but I remember one particular woman in a primary school in Dublin who I ended up having for two years (she switched classes).

At the time I had fairly serious ear problems which I only got fully sorted out in my teens, but there were times when I wouldn't necessarily be able to hear all that well and also could be quite 'zoned out' as I couldn't follow what she was saying - often had headaches, felt generally horrible. It wouldn't be every day but there were a few times a year when I had these issues and needed meds and ENT visits and so on.

She used to shout, roar, scream, poke me in the back / ribs, bang books down on the table in front of me, call me "Mr Dozey", put me in the corner with an actual dunces cap on which was torture as at the time I used to feel quite disorientated / dizzy when my ears were causing issues.

I asked if I could sit closer to the font and she refused to let me. I used to ask other kids to tell me what the homework was so I could copy it into a homework diary and she took it off me and said "put that behind the fire" (she'd weird grammar) and flung it in the bin.

I struggled with Irish and used to speak too softly because I was hearing my own voice much too loud due to the ear problems. She just used to keep yelling "speak up!! ... speak up child! .. big boy's voice!!"

All of this had been explained to her multiple times by my parents, by letters from ENT consultants and so on but she seemed to think she could somehow punish me into hearing properly rather than just working with it until I could get it fixed.

Got the ears sorted and learnt several languages since, so thankfully not an issue long term.

doolox

Paddy Crosbie went to the Brunner CBS man and boy. Great on TV and must have been one hell of a teacher.

embers_fire

Kids in our primary school were physically punished well into the 90s. I got slapped in the face several times, pulled by the ear, pushed around etc.. when I was there. There was a lot of grabbing kids and shouting in their face. It was quite terrifying and belittling.
I'm pretty sure it didn't benefit anyone.

freshpopcorn

I remember being in Playschool and a teacher/leader sellotaped somebodies lips together for talking. It would have being in the 1990's!

demanufactured

Grab All Association wrote: »

The Simpsons has really ruined us taking things seriously. In almost every subject on here there’s a Simpsons reference.

And how!

road_high

Really hope people’s past experiences of education aren’t putting them off going back now if they feel they didn’t reach their potentials- I know that probably is the case but it needn’t be. There are so many life long learning avenues for everyone. I hate to think of people who were demeaned and diminished in school being still deprived of an education because of the fear and put downs they went through. That wasn’t what education should be. So many great organizations now like NALA, National Learning Network and lifelong learning programmes in the colleges that can help people without the shame and brutality of the past.

road_high

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I remember being in Playschool and a teacher/leader sellotaped somebodies lips together for talking. It would have being in the 1990's!

How did they get away with that? Was there not uproar?!

freshpopcorn

road_high wrote: »

How did they get away with that? Was there not uproar?!

It was one of these things I'd say was forgotten about or people were afraid to get into trouble at home/etc.
I met the woman last Summer and she basically grilled me with loads of personal questions and I wasn't expanding on my answers and I clearly wasn't good enough for her. Something came up about her own children and she said she believed in tough love.(My mother asked a question) I wasn't keen on her then and I wasn't 20+ years later.

gozunda

road_high wrote: »

How did they get away with that? Was there not uproar?!

A recent case

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teacher-struck-off-after-allegedly-taping-schoolgirls-mouths-with-sellotape-37474985.html

AllForIt

doolox wrote: »

They always appeared to know which pupils came from a poor, non influential background and hammered them with impunity while neatly avoiding laying a finger on the sons of more powerful city figures in my school.

Oh this is so true. I had an innocent pencil fight for fun with the guy who sat beside me at school at age 6/7. He was the son of a man who was a manager in the town bank and was also a next door neighbor of the teacher. Most of my classmates including myself came from a farming background.

It has just happenstance that the lead of my sharpened pencil entered his finger and broke off. It could just have easily been the other way around. Boy did I get in trouble for that and I still recall the look on the face of the teacher when this happened. If I was the victim I'm sure there wouldn't have been as much concern. I have a very good memory btw, always have had.

road_high

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It was one of these things I'd say was forgotten about or people were afraid to get into trouble at home/etc.
I met the woman last Summer and she basically grilled me with loads of personal questions and I wasn't expanding on my answers and I clearly wasn't good enough for her. Something came up about her own children and she said she believed in tough love.(My mother asked a question) I wasn't keen on her then and I wasn't 20+ years later.

Sounds like a total weapon and you are far too polite for your own good!!
Clearly wasn’t good enough? Wtf!

road_high

gozunda wrote: »

A recent case

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teacher-struck-off-after-allegedly-taping-schoolgirls-mouths-with-sellotape-37474985.html

There was probably no Fitness to Teach enquiry panel in the 80s/90s!!

freshpopcorn

road_high wrote: »

Sounds like a total weapon and you are far too polite for your own good!!
Clearly wasn’t good enough? Wtf!

I didn't achieve enough in college/wasn't married/didn't have kids/yet.
It was just the way she spoke to me and how her manner changed.
Before I spoke to her she was yelling at her husband on the phone to come out of the shop. She sounded like a tool then and my mother reminded me who she was.

road_high

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I didn't achieve enough in college/wasn't married/didn't have kids/yet.
It was just the way she spoke to me and how her manner changed.
Before I spoke to her she was yelling at her husband on the phone to come out of the shop. She sounded like a tool then and my mother reminded me who she was.

Still not too late to stick in an anonymous complaint!

PingTing comes for Fire

My recollection is of Brothers who ranged from harmless to dead sound. None of them violent. The really violent thugs were non religious. Box the head off you for some bullsh1t pretext to get a power trip.

Recliner

I posted on the first page of this thread and it's so sad to read the stories in the pages after. I started thinking more about it. I was in 5th class when corporal punishment was banned in schools.
Some memories after that:
A boy being forcefully pushed to the ground by a female lay teacher because he couldn't pronounce his words. Obvious to me now that he had a speech impediment.
My name being put on the cheaters list (I had changed a maths answer in 6th class and my teacher (a nun) didn't believe that I had realised my mistake by myself. Again the pets got to decide if my name was taken off the list after a suitable period of embarrassment. Not corporal punishment but just as harmful. The nuns pets were always the pretty girls in the class. I was a gawky, awkward and clumsy child, and puberty wasn't doing me any favours. I was definitely an ugly duckling. I'm fabulous now though!!
In secondary school, so after the ban, a "Christian" brother punching a male classmate straight into the face.
I can still picture their faces, it does actually make me feel a visceral anger towards them. I wouldn't be particularly bothered about meeting them now. They have to close their eyes at night and reflect on what they did. If they haven't realised by now how wrong they were, having it pointed out to them will have no effect.
Very good thread OP..

lillycakes2

im 33 and I had an awful teacher when I was 4/5/6yrs in primary school -mentally and physically abusive to children in junior infants/seniors and first class. Awful memories

realitykeeper

One teacher used to clench her fists and scream at the ceiling "Grant me patience!" In the school yard a kid had to stand on his toes when the teacher dragged his ear skyward for running through a puddle and splashing his suit. Waiting to be collected after school, I could hear the teachers of older kids shouting at them at the top of their voices. In the seventies, beatings happened everyday in every classroom.

Yet I never got the feeling they were doing it out of malice. I just think, dog handlers would have been much better at teaching the kids than the teachers, - a firm tone without anger and plenty of encouragement.

Anger toward teachers who were violent is understandable but forgiveness is part of the healing process.

madmaggie

I remember being about 8 or 9, talking and giggling with my friend in the classroom. The elderly teacher walked over, and without speaking gave me an almighty slap across the face. I was the same age as her grandchildren, but it didn't seem to matter.

freshpopcorn

Just said I'd include this if posters wish to contact these services.

Adults who have experienced abuse in childhood
The HSE National Counselling Service for adults with a history of child abuse provides counselling and support to any adult who has experienced abuse in childhood. Since its establishment, its primary clients have been adults who experienced abuse whilst in the care of the state as children. You can refer yourself by calling a Freephone number. GPs and others can also make referrals. The service is available free of charge in all regions of the country.
Connect is a free telephone counselling and support service for adults who have experienced abuse, trauma or neglect in childhood. It is an additional service to the HSE’s National Counselling Service. To speak to a counsellor call:
Ireland: Freephone 1800 477 477
UK and Northern Ireland: Freephone 00800 477 477 77
Outside Ireland and UK: 00353 1 865 7495 (International call rates apply)
If you wish to report the abuse to the Gardaí you should contact your local Garda station in person or by telephone.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/services_and_supports_for_children/child_abuse.html#l79760

Flaccus

road_high wrote: »

At the very least that was assault and of the most serious kind. And I bet he did!
Around what year did that happen?

1982

gozunda

The thing is that strikes me is the fact that corporal punishment was banned in schools in 1982. Some children who experienced this in school would also have experienced similar behaviour meted at home. And yet this was only legislated against in 2015. I dont know if its strange that it is the school aspect of corporal punishment which had stayed with a lot of people. Is there a sense of shame perhaps that some parents were just as culpable as some of the teachers of that period?

This is what is now defined as child physical abuse by Tulsa

Physical abuse

Physical abuse is when someone deliberately hurts a child physically or puts them at risk of being physically hurt. It may occur as a single incident or as a pattern of incidents. A reasonable concern exists where the child’s health and/ or development is, may be, or has been damaged as a result of suspected physical abuse.

Physical abuse can include the following:

Physical punishment
Beating, slapping, hitting or kicking
Pushing, shaking or throwing
Pinching, biting, choking or hair-pulling
Use of excessive force in handling
Deliberate poisoning
Suffocation

.......

gozunda wrote: »

Many children who experienced this in school would also have experienced similar behaviour meted at home. And yet this was only legislated against in 2015. I dont know if its strange that it is the school aspect of corporal punishment which had stayed with a lot of people. Is there a sense of shame perhaps that some parents were just as culpable as some of the teachers of that period?

One of the things that was shocking to me with school corporal punishment was that I DIDNT witness any violence at home - so seeing it up close and personal in school (let alone experiencing it) was really shocking and frightening.

Everybody in the school saw violence in school - but only some kids also saw it at home.

gozunda

....... wrote: »

One of the things that was shocking to me with school corporal punishment was that I DIDNT witness any violence at home - so seeing it up close and personal in school (let alone experiencing it) was really shocking and frightening.

Everybody in the school saw violence in school - but only some kids also saw it at home.

That is at least partially what I'm referring to. I know in my generation 'punishment' within the home was a fairly common thing and as in the school experience could result in some fairly extreme violence and abuse. Much of it was kept hidden and still is due to things like family, shame etc

EdgeCase

I'm not saying this as a whataboutary statement but unfortunately, this kind of violence towards children was commonplace around the English speaking world and former British Empire. It was cultural and corporal punishment was normalised within society to a frightening level. There is still brutal treatment of kids and adults going on around the world too.

Irish schools seem to have managed to blend a dangerous mixture of 19th century British notions of spare the rod and spoil the child with some kind of weird puritanical version of Catholicism (and sometimes Protestantism) which resulted in pretty horrendous outcomes.

The most important thing is that anyone who experienced it first hand talks about it and that we don't make it some kind of secret that's pushed under the carpet. It happened and it shouldn't have.

Those memories should stand to underline why we have moved on as a society and shed those warped values.

road_high

My father had a school reunion I’d say 15 years ago or so, my mother went along with him and said it was all just sad stories about how the Master used beat them. Late 50s era I suppose, a very dark period in Ireland in every way. I mean they were leathered. She was quite saddened by the whole thing. She had her share of punishment too but don’t think as severe as her gran aunt was the local Headmistress.
Just shows the massive life consequences this carry on had on that generation. We were so repressed in every way, ireland was very much an Autocracy and the schools were where this cruelty really played out.
I was so happy last May when we roundly rejected the last vestages of that cruelty, I found it very emotional thinking back of my parents and grand parents

tayto lover

road_high wrote: »

Really hope people’s past experiences of education aren’t putting them off going back now if they feel they didn’t reach their potentials- I know that probably is the case but it needn’t be. There are so many life long learning avenues for everyone. I hate to think of people who were demeaned and diminished in school being still deprived of an education because of the fear and put downs they went through. That wasn’t what education should be. So many great organizations now like NALA, National Learning Network and lifelong learning programmes in the colleges that can help people without the shame and brutality of the past.

I’m a volunteer tutor with an ETB teaching adults to read and write.
Many of them left school early because of the problems we have been discussing.
It’s nice to give back a bit of stolen dignity.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I was in primary in the 90s and remember seeing a good bit of it from one teacher but don't think I got any.

Partly that was because I was academic and fairly well behaved but also because the bitch wouldn't have dared, my parents would have been straight in to roar at her.

She was the fcuking iron fist of justice with the kids whose parents were more deferential or not around or whatever though. She could smell vulnerability on a child like we could smell the drink off her. The actual corporal punishment didn't go beyond a whack of the ruler or a twist of the ear but the threat of it was deployed constantly. She taught junior infants through 2nd class.

Any kid who wasn't the best academically was an idiot, we'd be encouraged to laugh at them. Any kid who came from a single parent household, whose family she considered lower class etc were marked as bold and she'd be down on them like a tonne of bricks over everything. Her niece was in the class and god be with any child who fell out with her.

There was this little hippie crustie kid who was in the school for a year or so, think he was Belgian. He used to run away from her, swear at her in French, knock things off her desk etc. At the time I thought he was really bold and annoying but in hindsight go on kid, rage against the machine!

road_high

tayto lover wrote: »

I’m a volunteer tutor with an ETB teaching adults to read and write.
Many of them left school early because of the problems we have been discussing.
It’s nice to give back a bit of stolen dignity.

Must be very rewarding for you and the students- and show them that education isn’t about beatings with a strap. The saddest thing is the stolen opportunity to learn (properly). There’s a whole generation that lived in fear and loathing of school and missed out so much as a result

road_high

Lena Weak Alternator wrote: »

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There was this little hippie crustie kid who was in the school for a year or so, think he was Belgian. He used to run away from her, swear at her in French, knock things off her desk etc. At the time I thought he was really bold and annoying but in hindsight go on kid, rage against the machine!

Probably because he hadn't experienced the "know your place" Irish educational system before then!

EdgeCase

road_high wrote: »

Probably because he hadn't experienced the "know your place" Irish educational system before then!

I experienced school in France (I can't comment on Belgium, but I would assume it's probably similar enough) and while it can be fairly full-on in terms of work load and long days and the teachers can be fairly grumpy and demanding, there was never that atmosphere of 'know your place'. It felt more like the kind of vibe you'd get in university here. You were treated as an individual and there was a mutual respect both directions. It was far less patronising and authoritarian.

Also, I think the way they break "Lycée" (High School / Senior Cycle) into a different institution makes a whole lot more sense. There's a massive difference between 11-15 year olds and older teenagers.

In one case you're dealing with kids in the other, young adults really and the atmosphere and approach to running the school was more like a university or IT in lycée and more like a more open minded community school at the collège level (junior cycle).

Also the collèges are more local - so you'd have lots of them around and then you might just have one large lycée per suburb / town (and excellent bus connections to it). They're more like the scale of a small IT here in a lot of cases and have absolutely fantastic facilities for IT, sports, etc and often linked into a community sports complex that might contain a small stadium, pools, tracks, playing pitches, tennis courts etc.

The collèges also would tend to be linked to big public facilities like libraries, pools and smaller sports complexes and so on.

I just always found Irish school totally patronising. (I know I'm repeating that word but it's the only one that fits). You were given no responsibility. You weren't trusted and you were treated like a child when you were about 17 and all with this weird atmosphere of uniforms and excessive rules.

It's really no preparation for university or for work. There's no focus on guided learning where you do your own research and discover a subject for yourself. Everything's spoon fed and all responsibility it taken away from you.

Then you arrive into university or a job and you're suddenly on your own two feet and some people seem to really struggle with that for a long while.

i'm not saying the Irish system is totally awful right now and I'm not saying the French system isn't full of major problems (it is), and I know Ireland performs well on various international rankings, but it could look at some of the more positive aspects of some of the continental systems and bring them in. There's no reason why we couldn't be more like say Finland. It's still very weird to have all these schools in uniforms and gender segregation, religious segregation and all of that in 2019.

It just always felt like you were stepping into a time warp kinda Harry Potter meets Sister Assumpta with a big stick.

Lorelli!

I remember being told about the meter stick and how if you moved your hand back naturally from fear and they missed, you would get it much worse on the next try so you would have to stand there shaking trying not to pull away.

I can hardly remember but I was smacked in low infants on the hand which would have been around 87'. I think I'd messed up some paint or something and the teacher flipped out.

I switched to a nuns school in primary and only remember one incident where a nun slapped a nine year old accross the face.

Also remember in secondary, around third year, the teacher threw a duster at someone because they drew a swastika on their copy.

One particular time I do recall was in 6th year so it was around 2001, when our principal lost the plot with a fella and dragged him out of the class by the ear. Tbf the bloke wasn't really that bad in school. He was a bit of a messer but not the worst. The lad was disgusted by it and when the teacher came back into the room, you could tell he was disgusted by himself. It was really awkward and out of character for him. We just sat there in silence. It was kind like 'youve disappointed us now sir' and the roles were reversed!...for around half an hour! I think he did apologize to the lad in the end.

Those are the only things I can recall and tbf there were some teachers that were really nice. Oh and some eccentrics and some that didn't give a crap.