How clean is electric car?

mischascha

ED E wrote: »

The point is its cleaner outside our homes and schools. Less kids retarded by diesel fumes the better.

diesel fumes retardation?:>

The Enbalmer

KCross wrote: »

That's a good point. Alot of the EV haters that jump into these debates think we are all tree huggers.

EV's have more going for them other than environmental factors. Their own negativity and wish to stick with the status quo doesnt allow them to look beyond what they already know. Change is difficult!

Okay. Say I win 10 million euro and for some reason decide I want an expensive sports car to show how much of a nobhead I am.

What's the electric equivalent of say a nice Bugati? Or a Rolls Royce..or even a nice 6l Jag?

A huge part of the motor market is dedicated to high-end,high performance,collectors and luxury cars.

Electric vehicles cannot compete because they're not meant for people who like or understand the appeal of cars..they're a sort of motoring Cryptocurrency,beloved of libertarians.

mischascha

KCross wrote: »

Do some more research on the Irish grid then and it should change your opinion.

All the data you need to calculate it is here:
http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com




So, you equate the emissions from a highly regulated and controlled power station to that of a dieselgate car? You seriously think those two things are comparable?

Forget about the media. Nearly all media around EV's is negative anyway.
At what planet exactly?:>

KCross

mischascha wrote: »

At what planet exactly?:>

Huh?

The Enbalmer

mischascha wrote: »

a dieselgate car?

A what now?

KCross

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Okay. Say I win 10 million euro and for some reason decide I want an expensive sports car to show how much of a nobhead I am.

What's the electric equivalent of say a nice Bugati? Or a Rolls Royce..or even a nice 6l Jag?

A huge part of the motor market is dedicated to high-end,high performance,collectors and luxury cars.

Electric vehicles cannot compete because they're not meant for people who like or understand the appeal of cars..they're a sort of motoring Cryptocurrency,beloved of libertarians.

Maybe EV's arent targeted to nobheads.... which would be a positive in my book!

Its a BS question anyway. EV's are at the early adopter stage. There arent even EV's in each Joe public segment not to mind to cover the nobheads.

Can I ask, have you ever driven one? Maybe if you drove the right one it would open your eyes that there is more to them than you think and its not all down to your relatives experience either but there are issues with the charging infrastructure... thats part of the early adopter stage unfortunately.... but that will be resolved pretty soon.

And let there be no doubt, no one is forcing you into an EV. Stick with your bangernomics ICE for as long as you are happy with same. Its a free world and thats your choice.

KCross

The Enbalmer wrote: »

A what now?

You've never heard of dieselgate?
That says alot. Go google it.

The Enbalmer

KCross wrote: »

Maybe EV's arent targeted to nobheads.... which would be a positive in my book!

Its a BS question anyway. EV's are at the early adopter stage. There arent even EV's in each Joe public segment not to mind to cover the nobheads.

Can I ask, have you ever driven one? Maybe if you drove the right one it would open your eyes that there is more to them than you think and its not all down to your relatives experience either but there are issues with the charging infrastructure... thats part of the early adopter stage unfortunately.... but that will be resolved pretty soon.

And let there be no doubt, no one is forcing you into an EV. Stick with your bangernomics ICE for as long as you are happy with same. Its a free world and thats your choice.

https://www.thejournal.ie/electric-cars-ireland-2045-3856261-Feb2018/
Not according to this article.

Apparently we're all going to be *forced* to buy an EV because we wont be allowed buy anything else.

Even though the "early adoptor" models are merrily trundling around already and very few people seem to want them.

But to get back to my original point..i can't imagine..even as the technology grows,how they're going to make an electric version of a high-performance car,regardless of the nobheads who buy them.

As for issues with the charging infrastructure,it's not going to get any better.
How does somebody who lives on the 5th floor of an apartment building charge their car overnight? What about somebody with on-street parking only? What happens if there's a power outage in a given area? Are these things supposed to replace Garda cars and Govt Minister's vehicles too?

Poppycock. It's fad and it will fail.

The Enbalmer

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I got a 06 reg Saab for 1200 quid two years ago and havnt had a peep of trouble out of it. I can travel the length and breath of the country in it using the petrol station system and when it eventually gives up the ghost i'll buy another car for the same money.

My in-laws spent 9k on a secondhand Leaf and they're always moaning that chargers are taken by people and they end up hanging round for 30minutes waiting to use the charger.
They have a place in cavan but wont drive there in case the car runs out of charge somewhere.
What's the point?

Then there's upside,they claim is the cost of electricity and how much they save on fuel relative to my car...the fact is I can get 7 cars that last 2+ years each for the money they spent on that thing..the cost of fuel is irrelevant.

I have my own concerns about the concept of everybody driving around in a giant battery too. Can they be extinguished normally if they catch fire?

Remember petrol can be extinguished rapidly by depriving it of oxygen..how do firefighters extinguish an electrical fire that doesn't require oxygen?

Do EVs have to be scrapped completely in the event of a crash? Will there not be a hugely increased burden of toxic batteries in waste facilities and a complete lack of ability to recycle these vehicles when their life is up?

Batteries are not toxic and the second hand batteries have many uses.

Any fire needs oxygen, batteries can be extinquished with water or inert gases. Apart from Tesla I haven't heard of an EV catching a battery fire due to the differing technology between Tesla and other makers.

Fine if you don't care about how much you spend on fuel. In my case it was as cheap to drive a brand new LEAF for three years than to pay the cost difference between lecky and petrol to cover 71k km for a '00 SAAB 9-5 (which btw cost 250 to buy at the time of purchase). SAAB was a nicer drive though I admit on motorway and less hassle on the occasional long trips. LEAF is a very much nicer to drive on our typical drives in the greater Dublin area though.

You should always buy an EV that covers your typical drives without charging as the public charging system sucks as you relatives have found out.

Driving a brand new car means that you don't need to worry about it giving up ghost for many years to come.

stimpson

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Okay. Say I win 10 million euro and for some reason decide I want an expensive sports car to show how much of a nobhead I am.

What's the electric equivalent of say a nice Bugati? Or a Rolls Royce..or even a nice 6l Jag?

A huge part of the motor market is dedicated to high-end,high performance,collectors and luxury cars.

Electric vehicles cannot compete because they're not meant for people who like or understand the appeal of cars..they're a sort of motoring Cryptocurrency,beloved of libertarians.

The 2 fastest 0-60 production cars are plug-in hybrid and EV:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_cars_by_acceleration

And if it’s luxury you’re after these are on sale now or next year:

Jaguar I-Pace: 240-mile promised range, on sale now

• Mercedes EQC: 250-plus-mile promised range, on sale in 2020.

• Audi E-Tron: 250-mile promised range, expected to be on sale in late 2019

• Porsche Taycan: 300-plus-mile promised range, expected to be available in 2020

Not to mention Plugin hybrids like the BMW i8, Porsche Panemara, La Ferarri, Koenigsegg Regera, mcLaren P1

Shefwedfan

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Okay. Say I win 10 million euro and for some reason decide I want an expensive sports car to show how much of a nobhead I am.

What's the electric equivalent of say a nice Bugati? Or a Rolls Royce..or even a nice 6l Jag?

A huge part of the motor market is dedicated to high-end,high performance,collectors and luxury cars.

Electric vehicles cannot compete because they're not meant for people who like or understand the appeal of cars..they're a sort of motoring Cryptocurrency,beloved of libertarians.

A lot of the current supercars are hybrid

A good few full electric



And more like Ferrari all releasing them...

KCross

The Enbalmer wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/electric-cars-ireland-2045-3856261-Feb2018/
Not according to this article.

Thats to buy a new car and you've clearly said you'd never be so silly as to buy a new one!

And its just a plan. Who knows where it will all go. I doubt there will be enough EV's being produced in 2030 to cover 100% of the market... its a Government pipedream.


By the time you cant buy or NCT a second hand €2k ICE car your GP will probably have taken your driving license off you!

ewj1978

why does this troll thread even exist???

ewj1978

ewj1978 wrote: »

why does this troll thread even exist???

It's a good fun if you have a bit of free time on your hands.

stimpson

stimpson wrote: »

The 2 fastest 0-60 production cars are plug-in hybrid and EV:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fastest_production_cars_by_acceleration

And if it’s luxury you’re after these are on sale now or next year:

Jaguar I-Pace: 240-mile promised range, on sale now

• Mercedes EQC: 250-plus-mile promised range, on sale in 2020.

• Audi E-Tron: 250-mile promised range, expected to be on sale in late 2019

• Porsche Taycan: 300-plus-mile promised range, expected to be available in 2020

Not to mention Plugin hybrids like the BMW i8, Porsche Panemara, La Ferarri, Koenigsegg Regera, mcLaren P1

Don't forget Rimac Concept 2. Oh, I think they too can catch fire on an accident due to similar battery tech than Tesla uses. But I'd say the risk is smaller than dying in fireball douced by 150 liters of 98 octane.

KCross

The Enbalmer wrote: »

But to get back to my original point..i can't imagine..even as the technology grows,how they're going to make an electric version of a high-performance car,regardless of the nobheads who buy them.

You clearly have no research done.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

As for issues with the charging infrastructure,it's not going to get any better.
How does somebody who lives on the 5th floor of an apartment building charge their car overnight? What about somebody with on-street parking only? What happens if there's a power outage in a given area? Are these things supposed to replace Garda cars and Govt Minister's vehicles too?

Poppycock. It's fad and it will fail.

There are charging issues that need to be resolved. When the ICE car was invented did you think all the petrol stations arrived overnight?

Dont let issues like that cloud the bigger picture.

EV's suit one group of people right now. As range and technology improves more and more people will be suited. It will take a while (10yrs+) before 100% of the market can adopt.

We are at early adopter stage so there are of course issues to be resolved. Its no reason to stay stuck in the past....

The Enbalmer

samih wrote: »

Batteries are not toxic and the second hand batteries have many uses.

Apparently not.https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/10/electric-cars-big-battery-waste-problem-lithium-recycling

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries.

Reignition like the Tesla case is a problem, too. “With a gasoline fire, once you put the fire out, you take away the fuel,” says Lamb. “But with batteries, even once you put the fire out, there’s stored energy inside. You can have significant damage to a system without it being entirely discharged.” The undamaged cells of the battery can still get hot and discharge stored energy. Then, says Marca Doeff, a battery expert at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, all you need is oxygen from the air and heat — maybe hidden smoldering embers, maybe from the battery’s own voltage — to reignite.
It takes at least 2,600 gallons of water to put out a battery fire, according to Gorin, and handling the battery or moving it can make it more prone to reigniting. (This is why the Tesla first responders guides suggest letting the batteries burn out.)

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17530646/tesla-battery-fire-electric-vehicles-transportation-science

samih wrote: »

Any fire needs oxygen, batteries can be extinquished with water or inert gases. Apart from Tesla I haven't heard of an EV catching a battery fire due to the differing technology between Tesla and other makers.

The Enbalmer

KCross wrote: »

. When the ICE car was invented did you think all the petrol stations arrived overnight?

That was in 1886.

They're still using them today.

KCross

The Enbalmer wrote: »

That was in 1886.

They're still using them today.

Right! Whats your point?

Shefwedfan

ewj1978 wrote: »

why does this troll thread even exist???

Check back, every month you get something similar


Why is electric clean
Where is electric car for masses?
Why...
Why.....
Why.......


Same standard posts....goes on a few days and then dies off, give it a few more weeks and the same post comes up again......


I blame out education system to be honest

Sorry enbalmer, the quoting of your post didn't work. I noticed you didn't mention the toxic part anymore which is progress. The Guardian article is a typical UK Brexit type of article. The battery may become a real problem in the future.

There is not any large scale battery recycling happening (yet) as there is no need. The batteries of the cars seem to have better life than expected and the battery packs from crashed cars etc. normally get second life in energy storage projects like this:
Solar project using LEAF modules

Or they are recycled to replacement packs or storage:
Rebuild Nissan packs

or recycled:
Battery and car recycling

Forgot to mention the battery fires: When a Tesla catches fire there is typically many minutes to get out of the car before the fire becomes a real problem. But it's definitely something that that company has to look into. The electrolyte is flammable and unstable at high temperatures. And the battery cells have plenty of stored energy to ignite the neighboring cells.

MrMusician18

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Check back, every month you get something similar


Why is electric clean
Where is electric car for masses?
Why...
Why.....
Why.......


Same standard posts....goes on a few days and then dies off, give it a few more weeks and the same post comes up again......


I blame out education system to be honest

There wouldn't be so many troll threads of a few regular contributors didn't take questioning the green credentials of the EV like a personal insult.

jusmeig

mischascha wrote: »

It annoys me when people say that electric cars are clean, and with that in mind they are charged way less for road tax and what not. Taxes supposed to be paid for real situations. Its shouldn't have been driven by media hype constantly trying to impose this way of thinking - ok you pay less because its a great idea that one day we wouldn't need to burn fossil fuels to produce electricity. In fact - electric cars are less efficient - as that 'clean' electricity is produced from fossil fuels mostly and in combination in losses via cables - its ridiculous that they are considered clean!

This is nonsense and the ship has sailed on your points...and gone on fire and sank.

Electric motors are far more efficient than ICE motors, this is a fact.

EVs are the only cars that get cleaner over their lifetime, as the grid transitions to renewables, or u get solar etc. You will be on about how kids have to mine lithium next....sigh.

The Enbalmer

The Enbalmer wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/electric-cars-ireland-2045-3856261-Feb2018/
Even though the "early adoptor" models are merrily trundling around already and very few people seem to want them.

Forgot to reply to this: at the moment the manufactures have no issues selling as many "early adaptor" vehicles as they can and/or decide to make. Every single electric car model has a lengthy waiting list. This is quite recent development in Ireland as back in 2015/2016 they were practically giving away BEVs with almost no waiting time at all. The EVs at the same time also used to suffer from heavy depreciation but this is not the case anymore due to the long waiting lists.

Shefwedfan

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There wouldn't be so many troll threads of a few regular contributors didn't take questioning the green credentials of the EV like a personal insult.

How is it an insult? electric is a fuel like every other car fuel


I have electric and diesel. I would love to have both electric. Why you might ask? well the saving are huge, the drive is better and the environment is better. The fact I could longer term charge the cars from solar PV is also a huge advantage...


Do I care if other people do or don't buy electric, couldn't really give a flying ****, buy diesel/petrol whatever you want....the more combustion engines you buy the cheaper it will be for me to keep my BEV on the road :P so not an insult at all, thank you for paying my taxes

jusmeig

mischascha wrote: »

Is it horrific? I disagree.

It is terrible, I cycle behind buses on my daily commute....developed a real dislike for a faceful of diesel fumes!!

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have electric and diesel. I would love to have both electric. Why you might ask? well the saving are huge, the drive is better and the environment is better. The fact I could longer term charge the cars from solar PV is also a huge advantage...


Do I care if other people do or don't buy electric, couldn't really give a flying ****, buy diesel/petrol whatever you want....the more combustion engines you buy the cheaper it will be for me to keep my BEV on the road :P so not an insult at all, thank you for paying my taxes

Ha, the same. We have a diesel (camper) van under construction at the moment and it will be some more years when it will be possible to replace that with a BEV. You can now get an eCrafter in some markets but the battery is almost comically small compered to the energy consumption. I reckon I'll be able to change around 2030 as I'd like a range of at 500 kilometers on it and I suspect vans with 150 kWh batteries will become available as second hand vehicles around then.

But I can't think of any other reason than TCO to drive a diesel over BEV with a suitable range for the intended usage.

Shefwedfan

samih wrote: »

Ha, the same. We have a diesel (camper) van under construction at the moment and it will be some more years when it will be possible to replace that with a BEV. You can now get an eCrafter in some markets but the battery is almost comically small compered to the energy consumption. I reckon I'll be able to change around 2030 as I'd like a range of at 500 kilometers on it and I suspect vans with 150 kWh batteries will become available as second hand vehicles around then.

But I can't think of any other reason than TCO to drive a diesel over BEV with a suitable range for the intended usage.

VW Buzz is the one I am waiting for.....camper van with a potential 100kWh battery stuck in it :eek:

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

VW Buzz is the one I am waiting for.....camper van with a potential 100kWh battery stuck in it :eek:

That's quite an appealing idea alright as a bay window van replacement. And sticking that battery under the floor of a Crafter will provide 300 km range which is nearly almost enough. Coming to a VW dealer near you in 2023 and and starting to appear second hand from 2026? And with 400 km range a few years later just in time for 2030.

Shefwedfan

samih wrote: »

That's quite an appealing idea alright as a bay window van replacement. And sticking that battery under the floor of a Crafter will provide 300 km range which is nearly almost enough. Coming to a VW dealer near you in 2023 and and starting to appear second hand from 2026? And with 400 km range a few years later just in time for 2030.

Buzz will be 2022 and maybe earlier depending on ramp up of electric cars from vw

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Buzz will be 2022 and maybe earlier depending on ramp up of electric cars from vw

Yea, and hopefully an useful size battery may find it's way to a larger van even before that. A BEV commercial vehicle with a decent range would make a lots of sense for DHL etc. The current eGolf-derived 36 kWh battery is just too small for pretty much any routes.

mischascha

jusmeig wrote: »

This is nonsense and the ship has sailed on your points...and gone on fire and sank.

Electric motors are far more efficient than ICE motors, this is a fact.

EVs are the only cars that get cleaner over their lifetime, as the grid transitions to renewable s, or u get solar etc. You will be on about how kids have to mine lithium next....sigh.

OK, efficiency is actually even more vague as it also depends on peoples driving 'skills' and so on. My biggest concern and annoyance comes from conversations with people saying that they drive with zero emissions, and that its a clean energy. Boring of fossil fuels is contributing to environmental pollution and degrade surroundings, and it is at the moment the major way of producing power that is used for those vehicles. But the media for some reason is trying to impose their futuristic perspective by composing those slogans, and repeating them ion a daily basis.

Shefwedfan

mischascha wrote: »

OK, efficiency is actually even more vague as it also depends on peoples driving 'skills' and so on. My biggest concern and annoyance comes from conversations with people saying that they drive with zero emissions, and that its a clean energy. Boring of fossil fuels is contributing to environmental pollution and degrade surroundings, and it is at the moment the major way of producing power that is used for those vehicles. but media for some reason is trying to impose their futuristic perspective by composing those slogans, and repeating them ion a daily basis.

Quite a sizable chuck of people with electric cars are investing in solar panels

mischascha

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Quite a sizable chuck of people with electric cars are investing in solar panels

Sounds like a disaster to me:> Check what happened in Spain after 10 years of government solar incentives:>

KCross

mischascha wrote: »

OK, efficiency is actually even more vague as it also depends on peoples driving 'skills' and so on. My biggest concern and annoyance comes from conversations with people saying that they drive with zero emissions, and that its a clean energy. Boring of fossil fuels is contributing to environmental pollution and degrade surroundings, and it is at the moment the major way of producing power that is used for those vehicles. But the media for some reason is trying to impose their futuristic perspective by composing those slogans, and repeating them ion a daily basis.

No such thing as zero emissions. The fact you’re alive and breathing is causing emissions.

The idea is to reduce emissions and switch to sustainable fuels. ICE can’t achieve that. EVs can.

When zero emissions are mentioned it always refers to point of use. Nobody believes that the car causes no emissions to make and run.

Orebro

The Enbalmer wrote: »

The EV fraternity have an almost cult-like belief in electric cars as being the saviour of the earth and completely ignore their lack of versatilityfor example..what happens if there's a power failure for a day or two?),the sheer hassle of having to charge them and their enormous cost relative to ICE engines

If there is a power failure you can't pump petrol or diesel either.

Twenty Grand

mischascha wrote: »

OK, efficiency is actually even more vague as it also depends on peoples driving 'skills' and so on. My biggest concern and annoyance comes from conversations with people saying that they drive with zero emissions, and that its a clean energy. Boring of fossil fuels is contributing to environmental pollution and degrade surroundings, and it is at the moment the major way of producing power that is used for those vehicles. But the media for some reason is trying to impose their futuristic perspective by composing those slogans, and repeating them ion a daily basis.

Are you not arguing with yourself here?

You're saying it's bad that EV's are powered by fossil fuels, but the ICE's are "good"?
All told an EV across it's lifetime is far more environmentally friendly than an ICE.

KCross

mischascha wrote: »

Sounds like a disaster to me:> Check what happened in Spain after 10 years of government solar incentives:>

Had to look that one up. Seems more like a political issue than a technological one. And specific to Spain.

Again, no reason to stay stuck in the past. Learn and move forward.

mordeith

mischascha wrote: »

Sounds like a disaster to me:> Check what happened in Spain after 10 years of government solar incentives:>

Have you any actual viable solutions?

Shefwedfan

mischascha wrote: »

Sounds like a disaster to me:> Check what happened in Spain after 10 years of government solar incentives:>

I can't help but smile......

peposhi

Anothe point of view here to ingnite the disagreement...

To my knowledge an ICE would have 100 times more moving parts as opposed to an EV... 20 vs 2000 or so...
Logically speaking, someone has to produce and keep spares for 100 times more parts. How clean’s that environmentally wise? With 100 times more parts a large amount would likely fail/get worn over the life time of the car - waste goes somewhere as there’s no 100% recycling here.
Let’s add the engine oil changes... here it becomes nasty!

Twenty Grand

peposhi wrote: »

Anothe point of view here to ingnite the disagreement...

To my knowledge an ICE would have 100 times more moving parts as opposed to an EV... 20 vs 2000 or so...
Logically speaking, someone has to produce and keep spares for 100 times more parts. How clean’s that environmentally wise? With 100 times more parts a large amount would likely fail/get worn over the life time of the car - waste goes somewhere as there’s no 100% recycling here.
Let’s add the engine oil changes... here it becomes nasty!

In addition, the biggest component (and one that people focus most on) is the battery, which is maybe made of a handful of parts, all which can be recycled:cool:

The Enbalmer

peposhi wrote:

To my knowledge an ICE would have 100 times more moving parts as opposed to an EV... 20 vs 2000 or so... Logically speaking, someone has to produce and keep spares for 100 times more parts. How clean’s that environmentally wise? With 100 times more parts a large amount would likely fail/get worn over the life time of the car - waste goes somewhere as there’s no 100% recycling here. Let’s add the engine oil changes... here it becomes nasty!

Yes and when one of those parts fail on a conventional car you bring it to a mechanic..how easily fixable are the components of an electric car? Another point is apart from who do you bring it to is HOW you get it there. When EVs breakdown you can't push them they have to be taken on a lowloader .
You're going to find the issue of repairs an even bigger bugbear than the issue of charging,range and price.

The Enbalmer

How many people live in apartments? How will they charge their cars? Who's going to pay to fit out all these chargepoints? Won't the huge increased demand send the price of electricity skyrocketing?

Twenty Grand

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Yes and when one of those parts fail on a conventional car you bring it to a mechanic..how easily fixable are the components of an electric car? Another point is apart from who do you bring it to is HOW you get it there. When EVs breakdown you can't push them they have to be taken on a lowloader .
You're going to find the issue of repairs an even bigger bugbear than the issue of charging,range and price.

Most breakable components are the same. Brakes, shocks, bushings, panels, glass etc. What's left is battery, inverter, motors, controllers.
I don't know what the failure rate is, but I don't see much going wrong with most of this stuff. There's not even much to diagnose.
Tesla got bad press recently over taking so long for repairs, but they were crash repairs, not component failures.
I had a look through the Leaf service manual a while back, and I think for the first few years it's mainly visual inspections and cabin filter replacements.

The Enbalmer wrote: »

How many people live in apartments? How will they charge their cars? Who's going to pay to fit out all these chargepoints? Won't the huge increased demand send the price of electricity skyrocketing?

I assume you wouldn't buy an EV without having a solid place to charge.
Chargepoints are provided by the ESB, EV companies, garage forecourts, and maybe some private companies providing on street charging.
They not expensive to put in, all you need is power.

The grid in Ireland and the UK has plenty of spare capacity for EV's and with more and more renewables (public and private) the potential for increasing capacity grows every year.

unkel

mischascha wrote: »

My biggest concern and annoyance comes from conversations with people saying that they drive with zero emissions, and that its a clean energy. Boring of fossil fuels is contributing to environmental pollution and degrade surroundings, and it is at the moment the major way of producing power that is used for those vehicles.

EVs in Ireland are charged mostly at night when electricity is cheap and to a large extent made from wind

I can power my own EV either at night (right now wind is generating 65% of the total electricity production in Ireland) or from my large solar PV array, that produces more electricity per year than the average Irish household consumes

Zero emissions...

swarlb

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Yes and when one of those parts fail on a conventional car you bring it to a mechanic..how easily fixable are the components of an electric car? Another point is apart from who do you bring it to is HOW you get it there. When EVs breakdown you can't push them they have to be taken on a lowloader .
You're going to find the issue of repairs an even bigger bugbear than the issue of charging,range and price.

Yes... and usually when you bring a 'broken' car to a 'mechanic' they'll most likely say... "not worth fixing, scrap 'er and buy a new one"
DPF issues, cars with high mileage burning oil, timing chain or belt failures... some of the 'minor' issues that effectively write off a car of a certain value/age. Generally speaking ICE cars pre 2008 are getting worthless by the day, primarily because of road tax.
And as for not being able to 'push' EV's.... 100% of the broken down ICE cars arrive to my workshop on the back of a transporter, in 40 odd years I've yet to see a customer push one from where it broke down.
Repairing EV's is a simple case of re educating yourself in the procedures required, nothing more.
I know mechanics who can't or wont fix certain brands of modern cars.
People need to get over this debate about EV's as opposed to anything else. They are simply an alternative. No one is forcing anyone to buy one.
And as for where do you bring them if they break down... I would have thought that was pretty obvious....
Nissan
Renault
Hyundai for example....
I'm fairly certain they have a dealer network.

unkel

swarlb wrote: »

People need to get over this debate about EV's as opposed to anything else. They are simply an alternative. No one is forcing anyone to buy one.

Indeed. And may I say thank you to the tax payers who gave me €10k subsidy for buying one? And the free home charger plus free installation of same. And the free public charging.

The shameful era of paying subsidies for people buying cancerous diesels has hopefully come to an end.

peposhi

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Yes and when one of those parts fail on a conventional car you bring it to a mechanic..how easily fixable are the components of an electric car? Another point is apart from who do you bring it to is HOW you get it there. When EVs breakdown you can't push them they have to be taken on a lowloader .
You're going to find the issue of repairs an even bigger bugbear than the issue of charging,range and price.

EVs are exact same as ICE to repair with a huge difference in the likelihood something to go wrong with it due to it’s construction

1 Tesla went on fire - all over the news and the story was chewed for months.
In year 2017 in USA alone 168 000! cars went on fire and nobody gives a monkey (the only positive is that the car fires were decreased from 456 000! in 1980)
How about that?
How environmentally friendly is that?!?

And let’s sum up here some personal experience:
110000km over 3 years and 3 Leafs in total.
151 L24 - after six months of owning - heat pump failure - replaced under warranty
161 L30 - 3 years into it’s life - wheel bearing - replaced under warranty
151 L24 - zip/zero/nada issues

A lad that got his Leaf totalled in a crash a couple of weeks ago had 180000km and not even brake pads changed in it...
Or the other lad with 240 something thousand km in his with a washer bottle replaced...


I personally know of a lad who changed 2! engines in his 151 Nissan Quashqai
And only in the last six months I had 2 colleagues with engines gone in their ‘08 and ‘12 Ford Focus’s and you know what - both of them are looking now to get an EV.

I stand correct here but as far as I remember on the official presentation of the L40 in Dublin it was announced that for 260 000 Leafs sold globally there were a total of 3 cars that failed and had to be replaced.
Or the Nissan mechanics themselves discussing the most reliable car they’ve seen with the least repairs required - Leaf...

So, I totally disagree with you on this