Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

Rockbeast2

aloooof wrote: »

It's fairly common for PP to offer odds on events, matches etc. that aren't confirmed yet.

Thanks. I'd say it's 90%+ certain anyway. I'll take an early bite of Leinster -7 so! 🙂

Podge_irl

Seemingly a potential ACL tear for Snyman. That's a real kick in the face for Munster.

Buer

Podge_irl wrote: »

Seemingly a potential ACL tear for Snyman. That's a real kick in the face for Munster.

There seems to be a growing fear/belief that it's a serious injury at the least. Cian Tracey wrote that Munster are prepared for very bad news and Quinlan mentioned the ACL also. Both would have solid sources from within Munster.

Hopefully it's a less critical ligament which has a shorter recovery. I think the next few weeks are obviously off the table, most likely. However, an ACL could end most of next season too which would be a complete disaster for a guy who only signed a 2 year deal.

Rockbeast2

Damn, an ACL would be heartbreaking. Could be 9 months and potentially the Lions tour, if it goes ahead, in jeopardy for the lad.

Hopefully only MCL damage so could be back playing this side of Christmas.

Burkie1203

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

Damn, an ACL would be heartbreaking. Could be 9 months and potentially the Lions tour, if it goes ahead, in jeopardy for the lad.

Hopefully only MCL damage so could be back playing this side of Christmas.

Van Graan said immediately after the game it was serious. I think medics know pretty much straight away these days.

Medial would be a great outcome but everything that's been said points to ACL.

Scottmactom

Kleyn gone for awhile too seemingly.

thomond2006

It's a nightmare for Snyman. No rugby for months, a move to the northern hemisphere with self-isolation etc and now set for months on the sidelines.

Kleyn is potentially more worrying as he has a history of neck injuries. He has missed quite a bit of time while at Munster.

With our two bruisers potentially out long term, is the next man up Thomas Ahern?

A second row with Beirne/Holland/Wycherley feels underpowered against the top opposition that have beaten up Munster packs in recent seasons. Ahern is very young but Munster may be forced into using him next season. He hasn't made any senior appearances yet so I don't expect him to feature in 2019/20.

irishbucsfan

If you think it’s miserable for Snyman now, wait until he experiences a winter here without rugby to play!

Scottmactom

Bad news on the injury front as RG Snyman sustained an ACL tear during #LEIvMUN & will meet with a specialist next to discuss surgery and management.

Dave Kilcoyne and Jean Kleyn have also been ruled out for the immediate future with both players requiring rehabilitation periods for respective ankle and neck ligament injuries.

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/08/25/player-update-rg-snyman-dave-kilcoyne-jean-kleyn/

Eod100

Scottmactom wrote: »

Bad news on the injury front as RG Snyman sustained an ACL tear during #LEIvMUN & will meet with a specialist next to discuss surgery and management.

Dave Kilcoyne and Jean Kleyn have also been ruled out for the immediate future with both players requiring rehabilitation periods for respective ankle and neck ligament injuries.

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/08/25/player-update-rg-snyman-dave-kilcoyne-jean-kleyn/

Jesus that's rough on them all but Snyman especially

Buer

Christ. As I posted before, if that effectively messes up the 20/21 season for him, he only has another season on his contract. Disaster for Munster with Kleyn gone too.

We're looking at Beirne and Holland as the starting partnership now which is skillful but light. Wycherley the likely bench option which will be great for his development if he gets 4 or 5 starts this side of Christmas.

If Cronin is out, we're looking at Loughman starting with Liam O'Connor benching. Things are looking light in the front five.

They have little to play for but Connacht are going to have a real go this Sunday. This is a horrendously unfortunate restart for Munster.

yerrahbah

Sickening for Snyman.

7 minutes into your first game after uprooting and moving halfway across the world during a Pandemic

From a selfish supporters POV, We need Kleyn back reasonably quick and Beirne to stay fit

Jesus what a disaster for Synman. All the best to him in his recovery.

razorblunt

That's sickening for Snyman.
Hopefully it's a speedy and full recovery for him.

Buer

On an equally sobering note, isn't this the second or third significant neck issue Kleyn has had in the last couple of years?

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

On an equally sobering note, isn't this the second or third significant neck issue Kleyn has had in the last couple of years?

He's just back from a neck injury that occurred in January. He also missed the run-in of 2016/2017 with a neck injury sustained in February of that season.

Today's update is the stuff of nightmares. Squad planning for the pack is thrown out the window.

Snyman gets injured by what looks like a mix up with his lifters after making an incredible lineout steal.
Kilcoyne gets injured having been a late call up to the starting XV.
Kleyn goes off with what may be a recurrence of a long term injury.

We're luckless.

Cookiemunster

Buer wrote: »

On an equally sobering note, isn't this the second or third significant neck issue Kleyn has had in the last couple of years?

He was out with an unspecified neck injury when rugby was suspended. But this is listed as ligament damage rather than spinal (which was TBs issue) so fingers crossed.

ionadnapokot

Kenya Tasty Peacock wrote: »

Jesus what a disaster for Synman. All the best to him in his recovery.

Is my memory playing tricks with me but did Cullen and JDV all suffer significant injuries early in their Munster careers?
& CJ i think

crossman47

And some people think Munster fans are paranoid in thinking the media are pro Leinster https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/worst-sporting-moment-wales-beat-ireland-in-wellington-the-one-which-really-got-away-1.4337847

rayd3

Possible pack vs Connacht keeping in mind a 5 day turnaround to a possible semi and the 70/80 minute shifts guys like Holland and Loughman had to put in.

O’Connor
KOB
Ryan
Beirne
Wych
Coombes
POM
CJ

Cookiemunster

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Is my memory playing tricks with me but did Cullen and JDV all suffer significant injuries early in their Munster careers?
& CJ i think

JDV no. He was only here for a season. However in their fist seasons with Munster. Stander broke his wrist or hand (can't remember which) in his third game. Farrell did his cruciate in the warm down of an Irish open training session. Beirne broke his ankle against Saracens. Cloete broke his wrist. And then there's the litany of injuries for Carbery.

We're bloody jinxed. I think we must have disturbed some ancient burial ground when the banana block was demolished to build the East Stand!

Cullen was like TB. Came injured and basically stayed injured for most of his time here.

thomond2006

GVDH missed time through injury as well and never got going at Munster. Then there's Bleyendaal.

yerrahbah

https://www.tg4.ie/en/player/categories/sport-tv-player/play/?pid=6183713035001&title=Laighin%20v%20Mumha&series=Rugba%C3%AD%20Beo&genre=Sport&pcode=079971

You can see Kleyn getting the injury at the 1.14 mark here.

Look like he collides with Healys hip or shoulder, its tough to make out

Scottmactom

Great chance for Aherne.

What a Disaster a near 7 footer will likely not be right the year after an acl either unfortunately.

ionadnapokot

crossman47 wrote: »

And some people think Munster fans are paranoid in thinking the media are pro Leinster https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/worst-sporting-moment-wales-beat-ireland-in-wellington-the-one-which-really-got-away-1.4337847

That fella is not worth reading.
But....there is nothing incorrect in what's there.
I'll post it here so he doesn't get the clicks.
(chip on his "reporters" shoulder about Joe. & clealry dislikes Kidney.
total blind spot for all things Leinster & Sexton esp.
e.g. no mention of Sextons bad performance v Wales in '11 or his woefulness v NZ in '19)

_______________
"Eventually.......

---

deleted rubbish at start

---

a decision was made to re-replace Johnny Sexton with Ronan O’Gara as Ireland outhalf.

O’Gara deserves enormous credit for battling back from his calamitous end game for the Lions against South Africa in 2009 to transform himself into a priceless relief pitcher behind Sexton.

This was easily the best Ireland team I’ve ever seen: Kearney, Bowe, O’Driscoll, D’Arcy, Earls, Sexton, Murray, Healy, Best, Ross, O’Callaghan, O’Connell, Ferris, O’Brien, Heaslip, with Leo Cullen, Geordan Murphy and Shane Jennings inspirational behind the scenes – but the players were denied the sophisticated preparation that they all craved.


“Our attack shape was terrible,” said Brian O’Driscoll in 2014. “We didn’t really have a good understanding of what we were trying to do in attack. Wales were brutally efficient with what their gameplan was.”

Ireland appeared to be playing “cup” rugby in the fashion of schoolboys from the 1990s. Murphy subsequently revealed, in his autobiography, that several attempts were made to introduce the basics of Leicester’s multi-phased attack into the Ireland camp. He literally handed over the Tigers playbook but Ireland head coach Declan Kidney declined to embrace what are now the fundamentals of any modern attack.

“You can’t rely on your defence to win a World Cup,” O’Driscoll added. “You have to have an attacking game and we just didn’t have one of them. That curtailed our capabilities, you look back on that now, for sure it did.”

The defence did not hold. Warren Gatland switched the Welsh wingers – Shane Williams and George North – to bamboozle Ireland in the opening seconds. It helped enormously that Jamie Roberts caught a high ball over Rob Kearney and bounced Donncha O’Callaghan as all the physical markers were laid by Welsh men.

Sexton’s three World Cup experiences would tear the heart out of most athletes. Valid excuses are everywhere; in 2011 the coach betrayed him for an old mistress; in 2015 the heavy thud of Louis Picamoles and poor handling of the injury proved Ireland’s undoing; in 2019 nagging limbs refused to obey his command as defeat to Japan happened, once again, with him sitting in the stand.

But that 2011 quarter-final in Wellington remains the most underwhelming moment in modern Irish rugby history because of the personnel at Kidney’s disposal. Here was the rarest gathering of men, with a blend of power and skill that no Ireland team had ever known, and they were self-made winners, which made them more than capable of winning a tournament that was suffocating the life out of its hosts. Dan Carter had torn his groin and Richie McCaw’s foot was stapled together with metal pins. What’s more England and the Springboks were all over the shop. The French were simply a joke.


O’Gara snatched the 10 jersey from Sexton, a decision that follows Kidney around especially after a season that saw Sexton post 28 points in the European Cup final to mastermind Leinster’s miracle revival against Northampton.

“At half-time against Australia I overheard Declan asking our kicking coach Mark Tainton if we needed to make a change at outhalf,” Sexton remembered last year.

It was 6-6. He had kicked one from three penalties and slotted a drop goal behind an Irish pack in quare form. Poor Will Genia took the brunt of it.

“Early in the second half I’d a kick to put us in front and I nailed it. Having heard what I heard at half-time, because they didn’t see me, that was a big kick for me.”

O’Gara stripped on the touchline during Sexton’s back swing but he replaced Gordon D’Arcy so the starting 10 moved to inside centre. Two minutes later Cian Healy won a scrum penalty wide on the left.

“It was a perfect kick,” Sexton remembered. “I hit it exactly where I wanted it but it just drifted slightly on the wind and hit the post.”

O’Driscoll was denied a certain try as the bouncing ball evaded his fully extended fingertips.

That’s when O’Gara took over.

“If I didn’t hit the post there I probably would have taken the next two kicks. No kick is straight forward but the next two were easier [to make it 15-6]. Suddenly I would have been five from seven with a drop goal, kicking all the points to beat Australia, and it just changes the whole complexion of my performance, of me. I probably get to play in the quarter-final against Wales.


“It comes back to those small things, in off the post or holds its line for another yard and things just change totally.”

The best outhalf in Europe was benched for the next three matches. When Sexton replaced O’Gara in the Wellington quarter-final Ireland trailed 15-10. Eight minutes later Jonathan Davies tip-toed between Healy and Keith Earls to make it 22-10. With 15 minutes to play Ireland thundered downfield but individual errors came from the strangest places imaginable.

Ireland denied by the wily Gatland and Shaun Edwards’s very simple plan to halt any gainline possession by chopping their ankles. The numbers do not lie: Dan Lydiate made 24 tackles, Sam Warburton 18. Seán O’Brien covered just 24 metres from 22 carries.

So disappeared the golden generation’s chance of reaching a World Cup semi-final against a calamitous French side – in full revolt against their coach – before a final back at Eden Park against the nerve-jangled All Blacks.

Sexton moved ever on, winning two Six Nations after leading the Lions to a Test series in Australia, to revive the highest expectations come RWC 2015. Then, 25 minutes into the final pool game against France, Picamoles drilled Sexton’s arched body into the turf.

“We scanned it that night which wouldn’t be done now, because you wait 36, 48 hours to let the injury show up. Scan came back clear so I thought I was imagining things but I definitely felt what I felt. Probably because the scan was clear we managed things not as well as we should have those first few days. And that was costly because as it transpired I probably could have got back for the quarters if I had done things slightly different but, again, hindsight is a great thing. Yeah, it’s a huge regret not being on the pitch for the Argentina game.”


Japan 2019 was supposed to be different but, just like before, Sexton was denied the opportunity to control events in Shizuoka.

The 35-year-old at an empty Aviva stadium last Saturday would have been an ideal figure in Wellington. Or the coach could have supported the 26-year-old version – with the weight of expectation on his shoulders at his first World Cup – what with the memory still fresh from how he destroyed Northampton.

New Zealand never seemed so brittle, so gripped by fear during their 8-7 victory over France in the final. O’Gara would have been the perfect man to close that game down.

Instead that Wales defeat will continue to haunt them all as the light declines.
______________________________________________________________

aloooof

Nightmare injury list and can only wish them all well in their recovery. Beirne and Holland does look a but lightweight, but they're among out best handling front 5 forwards, which might suit other parts of our game better. Huge losses tho...

yerrahbah

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1298190763361280000

Nice article on Munsters attack vs Leinster

yerrahbah

crossman47 wrote: »

And some people think Munster fans are paranoid in thinking the media are pro Leinster https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/worst-sporting-moment-wales-beat-ireland-in-wellington-the-one-which-really-got-away-1.4337847

They don't call him Wummiskey for nothing

BloodyBill

I hope Synman has just done medial ligament damage and not ACL. Kleyns a big worry. The neck injuries seem to keep reoccurring. Fingers crossed for both of them. At this stage its worth throwing in Coombes or Wycherly. No matter what happens I see Leinster beating Munster again in the semi. They are getting stronger as we are getting weaker. I still don't trust Hanrahan. Hes playing well. I wouldnt question that. He can't close out a game and he's not good under the highest pressure. Its the story of his career.