Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

Cookiemunster

sydthebeat wrote: »

Yeah but.....

JJ right now is the primary out half in the club.

Joey is crocked.

Is JJ good enough at the business end of the season to bring silverware?

It's game one of the season. Healy will have had plenty of opportunity to show whether or not he's better than JJ by the time we get to the business end of the season.

Cookiemunster

shootermacg wrote: »

Is Keynan Knox injured?

One senior player and four academy players are still self isolating. I don't know if Knox is one of them, but he and few others were also missing last week despite not being listed as injured. Put two and two together and you'll probably get four.

New Era

What is the story regarding Matt Gallagher? Once again it seems he is not in the matchday squad of 23 v Scarlets. Very disappointing that he isn't playing, like what's the point of signing a player like Matt, if he isn't going to get any gametime.

I have zero faith in JVG. The quicker he is shoehorned from the province, the better for Munster rugby.

Tomtom364

New Era wrote: »

What is the story regarding Matt Gallagher? Once again it seems he is not in the matchday squad of 23 v Scarlets. Very disappointing that he isn't playing, like what's the point of signing a player like Matt, if he isn't going to get any gametime.

I have zero faith in JVG. The quicker he is shoehorned from the province, the better for Munster rugby.

Matt Gallagher has been omitted from 100% of this seasons squads.
Outrageous.
JVG Out.

:pac:

New Era

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Matt Gallagher has been omitted from 100% of this seasons squads.
Outrageous.
JVG Out.

:pac:

Sarcasm aside, he was on the bench against Leinster in the first match back post-covid. He was an unused substitute. Since then we haven't seen him on the matchday squad of 23, for the subsequent matches against Connacht and the pro14 semi-final against Leinster.

Now he isn't in the matchday 23 against the Scarlets tomorrow. As a Munster fan, I'll be asking like so many fans throughout the southern province, why he is so out of favor with JVG. Why bring Matt here, if he isn't getting any gametime?

He did start last week, but that was for Munster A.

JVG is a dud and clearly was a rushed and cheap appointment IMO, as the Munster hierarchy had no faith in Flannery and Jones to lead Munster during the post-Erasmus transition.

I will be delighted to be proven wrong this season, but when you compare his impact to the likes of Dan McFarlane, Andy Friend and Stuart Lancaster, it clearly doesn't look good for the South African.

Hope as always that we come out on top tomorrow against a very decent Scarlets side, but I fear we will revert to the direct, attritional and one out bulldozing way, the JVG way and that will spell disaster for Munster rugby, not just tomorrow but throughout the season.

Cookiemunster

Gallagher was a signing that I never understood. Back three is probably Munsters strongest position. Haley, Daly and Conway were already there to cover full back and you have Conway, Earls, Daly, Sweetnam, Nash and Coombes who can play on the wing. I've not seen enough of Gallagher to say he's good enough to be shifting the top 4 or 5 of those players.

shootermacg

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Gallagher was a signing that I never understood. Back three is probably Munsters strongest position. Haley, Daly and Conway were already there to cover full back and you have Conway, Earls, Daly, Sweetnam, Nash and Coombes who can play on the wing. I've not seen enough of Gallagher to say he's good enough to be shifting the top 4 or 5 of those players.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sarries approached Munster on that.

sydthebeat

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's game one of the season. Healy will have had plenty of opportunity to show whether or not he's better than JJ by the time we get to the business end of the season.

You see, that's the problem.

For munster to be successful this season, showing he's a better 10 than JJ is not exactly a high bar.

If he can show (or if JJ can show) that they are on a par with the 10s playing for the teams they are facing, at the business end (semis etc) then that's the bar they should be aiming for.

Pepp1989

Another season and we still have jj. I don't blame him. He plays at a certain level. I blame Van Graan.

Another season and pack losing collisions. POM should not be starting. His form has been awful for 18 months for Munster. He can't manage referees either. Been given every opportunity to rediscover his form.

Again another season and questionable tactics. Mindless kicking. I don't mind a contestable box kick. Has its' value. But what we are doing is awful. What are we trying to achieve?!

I remember thinking these things at the start of last season.

UAEguy2020

This is the problem, Van Graan doesn’t trust Youth and just shoehorns players into positions that they aren’t their best at. He doesn’t have to trust youth but if he doesn’t he is going to be judged solely on his results and in the last 3 years there has been no progress whatsoever.

If there is no final this year he needs to go.

UAEguy2020

And *drum roll* another penalty and it’s 24-10.

Clegg

Scarlets scrum half had a little nibble with that slide in after the try.

I hate that.

UAEguy2020

Munsters discipline is so bad that they are even conceding penalties from scoring tries...

Clegg

Munster did very well to eke out a win from that, but there's just so much wrong with that performance. First and foremost is their discipline. All of Scarlets 27 points came from penalties. POM was sent off for two late hits on Scarlets players, Wycherley came on as a sub and the first thing he did was swim at at the side of a maul in front of the assistant referee to give a penalty.

Next is tactics. It was kick, kick, kick. Munsters first proper atttack ended up right outside Scarlets 22. Casey then box kicked it up and Scarlets won it in the air for an easy mark. For years Munster hadn't a clue how to use their back three. But now it looks like they don't know how to use their centres either. They're not generating quick enough ball to give a platform to them to get over the gain line and neither are they using them enough as decoys. They only started using then properly in the 70th minute when it looked like the game was gone.

AbusesToilets

Clegg wrote: »

Munster did very well to eke out a win from that, but there's just so much wrong with that performance. First and foremost is their discipline. All of Scarlets 27 points came from penalties. POM was sent off for two late hits on Scarlets players, Wycherley came on as a sub and the first thing he did was swim at at the side of a maul in front of the assistant referee to give a penalty.

Next is tactics. It was kick, kick, kick. Munsters first proper atttack ended up right outside Scarlets 22. Casey then box kicked it up and Scarlets won it in the air for an easy mark. For years Munster hadn't a clue how to use their back three. But now it looks like they don't know how to use their centres either. They're not generating quick enough ball to give a platform to them to get over the gain line and neither are they using them enough as decoys. They only started using then properly in the 70th minute when it looked like the game was gone.

Munster have one of the best backlines on paper in the league, travesty how they (don't) use them.

Brief_Lives

well... that was interesting

yerrahbah

Brief_Lives wrote: »

well... that was interesting

A win away to one of the better teams in the conference is always to be celebrated

But it was a very poor performance.

If that had finished 27-13 people would be very rightly be upset.

Scarlets will be absolutely fuming with themselves for losing that.

Its hard to know how much the weather impacted the game plan or how bad it actually was out there

Discipline was non existant, penalties from Whycherley and JOD stick out.

Along with O'Mahonys two yellow cards

If you watch back for the first yellow card he had a couple of bites at the ruck,
You can see some Scarlets players pointing him out to the AR, And then he has another bite.

JJ had a bad day at the office, but I'd still start him next week.

DDA and Farrell showed flashes of what they can do if we can get the ball to them.

Lots of small things resulted in it being a very frustrating performance.

Kicking when on the opposition 22
Haleys kick in the first half that resulted in us losing 70m and 3 points
Kicking out on the full
Penalties to touch not reaching touch
Penalties to touch going out over the dead ball line
Missed penalties at goal
Blown lineouts
Losing scrums against the head
Stander carrying too upright and getting caught in a choke tackle


Fair play to Healy for nailing the conversion and penalty at the end. Unreal

Edit: Coombes and Wycherley were impressive off the bench

Pepp1989

yerrahbah wrote:

JJ had a bad day at the office, but I'd still start him next week.

I could not disagree with you more. Jj has had many a bad day. This wasn't a once off. Healy all day long for me. Give him time in the Jersey. Should be his now. Earned after winning the game for Munster

yerrahbah

Pepp1989 wrote: »

I could not disagree with you more. Jj has had many a bad day. This wasn't a once off. Healy all day long for me. Give him time in the Jersey. Should be his now. Earned after winning the game for Munster

JJ was pretty much our only fit outhalf for the majority of last season.

In that time I'd categorize most of his performances as being decent to very good

The two blots would be the missed drop goal vs Racing (that's after he nailed a touchline conversion to tie the game)

And the performance in the SF vs Leinster

Other than that I cant think of many poor performances from him

I'd have no issue with Healy starting next week, himself and JJ will have to share the workload at 10 regardless.

If it were me I'd give JJ a chance to redeem himself next week

Buer

Pepp1989 wrote: »

I could not disagree with you more. Jj has had many a bad day. This wasn't a once off. Healy all day long for me. Give him time in the Jersey. Should be his now. Earned after winning the game for Munster

Nobody has earned the right to be first choice on the back of 15 minutes of rugby.

Hanrahan had a very good season last year and is a safe pair of hands as he has shown repeatedly. He's not a top class player but neither is Healy at this point.

Healy has multiple opportunities ahead of him and will get plenty of game time. Perhaps he's going to start next week. But if he doesn't that's because it's an important game against the team that topped the pool last season and Hanrahan has more than earned the jersey for such a game.

I hope Healy gets the nod but the shiny new toy syndrome is ridiculous.

thomond2006

Edinburgh are about to lose comfortably at home to the Ospreys. Perhaps that might influence the decision whether to go with JJ or Healy, I'd assume Crowley and Flannery aren't in contention at this point. It's a vital game as the same fixture last season proved to be the difference between first and second and Munster will be desperate to avoid the semi-final purgatory in Dublin.

I agree that JJ was for the most part good last season, unfortunately the high profile howlers put a dampener on a good campaign. Healy coming up at 52 minutes today would suggest he'll get the start.

shootermacg

Buer wrote: »

Nobody has earned the right to be first choice on the back of 15 minutes of rugby.

Hanrahan had a very good season last year and is a safe pair of hands as he has shown repeatedly. He's not a top class player but neither is Healy at this point.

Healy has multiple opportunities ahead of him and will get plenty of game time. Perhaps he's going to start next week. But if he doesn't that's because it's an important game against the team that topped the pool last season and Hanrahan has more than earned the jersey for such a game.

I hope Healy gets the nod but the shiny new toy syndrome is ridiculous.

JJ doesn't deserve anything really. He's had 6 years to rise to the top at Munster, if he was going to kick on, he'd have done it by now.
He's average at best, and I'm being kind because JJ's average is terrible.

Personally when I heard he was being offered a contract after ****ing off to England, I was shocked. I'd thought we'd dodged a bullet by saying good bye him. JJ had plenty of opportunities to take first spot off Keats, he couldn't even manage that.

Healy had a chance to win a game, he took it, that's what winners do. I'm pretty sure JJ would have shat himself in the same situation.

Buer

shootermacg wrote: »

Healy had a chance to win a game, he took it, that's what winners do. I'm pretty sure JJ would have shat himself in the same situation.

It's incredible how quickly people forget and dismiss.

Hanrahan nailed a halfway line penalty to win a Pro14 playoff game only last year.

rayd3

Does JJ piss in yer man’s Rice Krispies every morning?

shootermacg

rayd3 wrote: »

Does JJ piss in yer man’s Rice Krispies every morning?

Pretty much. I'm surprised that they didn't do a /r/JusticeForJJ on Reddit. Those howlers he's committed are seared into my brain.

shootermacg

Buer wrote: »

It's incredible how quickly people forget and dismiss.

Hanrahan nailed a halfway line penalty to win a Pro14 playoff game only last year.

How close is he to an Irish starting spot? Or a place on the bench? In a country with 4 teams and he doesn't even make the squad? Really, go on now.

Buer

shootermacg wrote: »

How close is he to an Irish starting spot? Or a place on the bench? In a country with 4 teams and he doesn't even make the squad? Really, go on now.

What on earth has that got to do with the point being made?

You made a claim which was shown to have no foundation in reality and actually contradicted by evidence. So now you're asking if he should be starting for Ireland?!

twinytwo

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Munster have one of the best backlines on paper in the league, travesty how they (don't) use them.

Does not help when the head coach is a spoof

shootermacg

Buer wrote: »

What on earth has that got to do with the point being made?

You made a claim which was shown to have no foundation in reality and actually contradicted by evidence. So now you're asking if he should be starting for Ireland?!

I will come out and say it now he's not good enough to play club rugby.

Just come out and say it, if you think he's a great player, make a case for it. This ****e about being good enough for the league is nonsense. A league player is consistent, no frills but dependable. JJ is erratic, inconsistent and shouldn't be within an asses roar of the first team.

The fact that you think he is, is a reflection on your judgement. I've a tower in Blackpool for sale if you're interested.

Poorside

With pom about to get an early season holiday I think the coaching staff should use the opportunity to start CJ at 6 with Hodnett at 8, Healy needs to be given every chance possible as well, didn't make a great start and had the mindset to put that behind him quickly, not many young 10's could do that.