Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

The Lost Sheep

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Has there been an announcement on a format for next season?
I thought we were still a bit in the dark about what was being planned.

I think we may actually need to add a couple of extra players to the senior squads.
With 14 teams we played 21 rounds and 3 rounds of playoffs so with 16 teams I could see it being increased by one round to 22 rounds with 3 rounds of playoffs without much fuss from the Unions (expecting 6 teams to qualify for playoffs the same as before with the Pro14).

I'd expect it will follow a similar conference setup as the the Rainbow Cup (8 teams, split across all the countries 2SA, 2Ir, 2Wa, 1Sc, 1It) but with Home AND Away conference matches, and only just a single match against each of the 8 teams in the other conference, dropping the extra Interpros as they have been this season, that'd be 7 Home & 7 Away matches in conference, and 4 Home and 4 Away matches against the teams in the other conference.

I think having the extra round of matches would be good for the league as it should generate more money for the clubs through gate receipts and TV revenue, and slightly increase the squad size.

Would imagine it might be while to see if crowds will be allowed etc
Might go like that but is losing interpros best idea?

thomond2006 wrote: »

No announcement but an 18 game regular season is widely expected: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/fewer-fixtures-more-money-amid-19530174.

We don't need more games. The biggest issue with the league is the shadow squad games over international windows. It's great for the diehards like ourselves to see young players, but it's not going to entice a big audience. Having extra matches isn't necessarily a positive. What you want is less games that are more meaningful.

The Top14 and Premiership can manage games over the international windows due to the spread of the English and French internationals amongst its clubs. The majority of Pro14 clubs on the other hand get decimated.

What do you do for squads then? You would see many sides contract less players then and that isnt good for the sport. You need to have something else for wider squad to play in

molloyjh

Agree with TLS on this. We need those shadow squad games to bring talent through. We simply have no other way to do it. Reducing games will reduce our depth and have a detrimental impact on Irish rugby.

sydthebeat

There's enough games in the playoffs where stronger teams face each other

thomond2006

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What do you do for squads then? You would see many sides contract less players then and that isnt good for the sport. You need to have something else for wider squad to play in

I think a smaller squad is inevitable, but that would have been forced due to Covid regardless. As it stands Munster have 43 senior players, I imagine it will be 40 or less for 2021/22. I doubt it will make that much difference to the sport.

molloyjh wrote: »

Agree with TLS on this. We need those shadow squad games to bring talent through. We simply have no other way to do it. Reducing games will reduce our depth and have a detrimental impact on Irish rugby.

There's only 3 less games. There will be still be rotation and plenty opportunity. The starting internationals won't play anymore games than they already do.

The reality is there is little interest in games played on international weekends, the media coverage and attendances reflect this. Irish rugby can survive without grim Sunday games in Parma and Newport.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think a smaller squad is inevitable, but that would have been forced due to Covid regardless. As it stands Munster have 43 senior players, I imagine it will be 40 or less for 2021/22. I doubt it will make that much difference to the sport

We need to look wider. Dont be so bloody conservative.

There's only 3 less games. There will be still be rotation and plenty opportunity. The starting internationals won't play anymore games than they already do.

The reality is there is little interest in games played on international weekends, the media coverage and attendances reflect this. Irish rugby can survive without grim Sunday games in Parma and Newport.

3 games which are good for squad rotation. There is as much interest in many games on international weekends as some of those which dont have international games as competition.
We need to be getting more support for the sport and just reducing by 3/4 games wont help attendances at other games. it wont see the top players play more it just see's less players contracted, less interest.

thomond2006

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We need to look wider. Dont be so bloody conservative.

You've lost me.

3 games which are good for squad rotation. There is as much interest in many games on international weekends as some of those which dont have international games as competition.
We need to be getting more support for the sport and just reducing by 3/4 games wont help attendances at other games. it wont see the top players play more it just see's less players contracted, less interest.

Well there is going to be a cut in regular season games, we know this. I'm trying to explain why. An increase in attendance in other games won't be automatic, of course. I enjoy the games where the young lads get an opportunity, Thomas Ahern's performance against Zebre will still be a highlight of mine come April.

Since you love to answer a question with a question, allow me. What would you want the Pro16 season to look like?

Jump_In_Jack

The Interpros are good for spectators and gate receipts but they cause an unfairness in the league, for example Connacht have had much tougher matches than Benetton, Glasgow or Scarlets have usually had over the years.

If as per the article quoted a few posts back, the preference is for fewer and more meaningful matches, and retaining the derbies as money-spinners is a priority, then fair enough.

With 16 teams, we could have a full round robin playing every team once either Home or Away and add on 3 regional matches (Sco and Ita teams would have to join together) for total of 18 matches.

Or, could go with two conferences of 8 like in the Rainbow Cup, and play home and away against every team in the same conference and home and away with the other provinces not in the same conference (Sco and Ita teams would have to join together) for total of 18 matches.

theVersatile

Any late guesses for the team sheet? Do ye think we'll see Crowley or Flannery or stick with Murray/Scannell as 10 cover?

Kirk Van Houten

theVersatile wrote: »

Any late guesses for the team sheet? Do ye think we'll see Crowley or Flannery or stick with Murray/Scannell as 10 cover?

Depends on Healy's fitness. If he can play next week then I think JJ will start and Scannell to cover from bench.

thomond2006

We'll see in a few minutes but I think the Leinster cancellation means the lineup for Belfast will be much stronger than originally planned.

yerrahbah

Healy starts

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/preview/team-named-munster-side-to-face-ulster-2/

Munster: Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Dan Goggin, Rory Scannell, Liam Coombes; Ben Healy, Craig Casey; Liam O’Connor, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Fineen Wycherley, Billy Holland (c); Jack O’Donoghue, Chris Cloete, Jack O’Sullivan.

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Dave Kilcoyne, Roman Salanoa, Thomas Ahern, Tommy O’Donnell, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Darren Sweetnam.


Not a bad attempt :pac:

yerrahbah wrote: »

Hard to predict this weekends team, but I'll go on the assumption that we will be going full strength vs Connacht next week and so it will be a rotated squad this week

Loughman, Scannell, Ryan, Wycherley, Holland, JO'D, Cloete, O'Sullivan, Casey, JJ, Sweetnam, Scannell, Goggin, Nash, Daly


Killer, Marshall, Knox, Beirne, TO'D, McCarthy, Crowley, DDA

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

You've lost me

Reducing games isnt good for the sport. Losing incomes from extra home games, less chance for squad players to play, less players needed to be contracted if theres less games. All not good for the sport

Since you love to answer a question with a question, allow me. What would you want the Pro16 season to look like?

Id be playing more games. 2 sections 8 teams home and away against 8 teams, home or away against the other 7 yes its 23 games then playoffs but trying to totally reduce games played will not increase any interest in the league.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The Interpros are good for spectators and gate receipts but they cause an unfairness in the league, for example Connacht have had much tougher matches than Benetton, Glasgow or Scarlets have usually had over the years.

If as per the article quoted a few posts back, the preference is for fewer and more meaningful matches, and retaining the derbies as money-spinners is a priority, then fair enough.

With 16 teams, we could have a full round robin playing every team once either Home or Away and add on 3 regional matches (Sco and Ita teams would have to join together) for total of 18 matches.

Or, could go with two conferences of 8 like in the Rainbow Cup, and play home and away against every team in the same conference and home and away with the other provinces not in the same conference (Sco and Ita teams would have to join together) for total of 18 matches.

You have to look at finances and bottom line and interpros are some of the only games for sides that get full crowds. Its not good for the league to lose tat.

thomond2006

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Id be playing more games. 2 sections 8 teams home and away against 8 teams, home or away against the other 7 yes its 23 games then playoffs but trying to totally reduce games played will not increase any interest in the league.

Creating more games with the star names not playing isn't going to increase interest either. The league is generally viewed as the second fiddle tournament. Even broadcasters who have covered the league have talked it down! This perception has to change. You and I might enjoy the games wedged into international weekends but it's difficult to garner mainstream interest. I think less games with more competitiveness which hopefully SA will bring is the way forward. Let's see how it goes. I think a full strength Bulls or Stormers with the likes of PSDT and Kolisi coming over to Thomond Park should be exciting.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

Creating more games with the star names not playing isn't going to increase interest either. You and me might enjoy them, but it's difficult to garner mainstream interest.

What rugby do you get all the players who wouldnt be needed for pro rugby then that are better than AIL alone.
You dont support or go to any rugby other than pro rugby so what do?
It makes zero sense to reduce the very small pool at the top even more.

irishbucsfan

I really think the difference will be barely noticeable. There would still be plenty of games without internationals in an 18 game season.

4 games people don't watch just won't exist now. A loss for STHs, without any real gain.

thomond2006

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It makes zero sense to reduce the very small pool at the top even more.

It also doesn't make sense to have too big a squad where you have too many players twiddling their thumbs at the weekend. And again, it's only a reduction of three games. Currently there's 27 regular season games (21+6 in Europe). 3 less is not a massive difference.

I think the squad might have a few players less, that's it. It's not going to be a massive cull unless forced by the finances. Academy players might be relied upon more.

You dont support or go to any rugby other than pro rugby so what do?

No I don't. Do I hand in my MRSC membership so?

You and I have different interests with regards to rugby, which is fine!

Jump_In_Jack

If playing an 18 match league before playoffs,
What does a squad look like for that many matches?

I was trying to think, something like,

30 forwards:
22 Senior forwards + 8 academy places:
3 hookers, 1 academy place
7 props, 3 academy places
5 second rows, 2 academy places
7 backrows, 2 academy places

21 backs:
16 Senior backs + 5 academy places:
3 scrum halves, 1 academy place
3 out halves, 1 academy place
4 centres, 1 academy place
4 wings, 1 academy place
2 full backs, 1 academy place

Maybe 38 Senior and 13 academy

Would that be enough?

Jump_In_Jack

If playing an 18 match league before playoffs,
What does a squad look like for that many matches?

I was trying to think, something like,

30 forwards:
22 Senior forwards + 8 academy places:
3 hookers, 1 academy place
7 props, 3 academy places
5 second rows, 2 academy places
7 backrows, 2 academy places

21 backs:
16 Senior backs + 5 academy places:
3 scrum halves, 1 academy place
3 out halves, 1 academy place
4 centres, 1 academy place
4 wings, 1 academy place
2 full backs, 1 academy place

Maybe 38 Senior and 13 academy

Would that be enough?

aloooof

thomond2006 wrote: »

I enjoy the games where the young lads get an opportunity, Thomas Ahern's performance against Zebre will still be a highlight of mine come April.

Still dining out on that anytime try-scorer bet, Thomond?

thomond2006

aloooof wrote: »

Still dining out on that anytime try-scorer bet, Thomond?

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

You've lost me.

reducing games, reducing squad numbers. all is not good thing. its very conservative and doesnt make sense if you want to actually grow the sport more.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The Interpros are good for spectators and gate receipts but they cause an unfairness in the league, for example Connacht have had much tougher matches than Benetton, Glasgow or Scarlets have usually had over the years.

If as per the article quoted a few posts back, the preference is for fewer and more meaningful matches, and retaining the derbies as money-spinners is a priority, then fair enough.

With 16 teams, we could have a full round robin playing every team once either Home or Away and add on 3 regional matches (Sco and Ita teams would have to join together) for total of 18 matches.

Or, could go with two conferences of 8 like in the Rainbow Cup, and play home and away against every team in the same conference and home and away with the other provinces not in the same conference (Sco and Ita teams would have to join together) for total of 18 matches.

we cant have everyone play everyone home and away with 16 teams and teams need more than 15 games so there has to be something in place and it wont be equal for all sides but there isnt much better to do.

windy shepard henderson

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I really think the difference will be barely noticeable. There would still be plenty of games without internationals in an 18 game season.

4 games people don't watch just won't exist now. A loss for STHs, without any real gain.

clutching at old straws but for all the IRFU money knocking around if we shortened the pro 14 league and invested more in the AIL , let the extended panel go back to their clubs and get more exposure through setanta and tg4


and show more club games on tv , tg4 show club gaa their is serious intrest in club rugby too

windy shepard henderson

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

clutching at old straws but for all the IRFU money knocking around if we shortened the pro 14 league and invested more in the AIL , let the extended panel go back to their clubs and get more exposure through setanta and tg4


and show more club games on tv , tg4 show club gaa their is serious intrest in club rugby too

Given the recent head trauma news no way professionals regularly go back to ail I'd say

Piehead

What’s the latest on Joey?

Caranica

Piehead wrote: »

What’s the latest on Joey?

Still injured, no return date available. Was pictured running just before Christmas but they're not going to rush him back.

The Lost Sheep

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

clutching at old straws but for all the IRFU money knocking around if we shortened the pro 14 league and invested more in the AIL, let the extended panel go back to their clubs and get more exposure through setanta and tg4

and show more club games on tv, tg4 show club gaa their is serious intrest in club rugby too

You dont need to shorten the pro14 to invest more in the AIL. If you want the extended squads to get more game time you really need a professional/semi pro competition between the standard of AIL and provinces. A proper Pro14 A league even if it was just a celtic league with 10 sides. Have 4 irish, 4 welsh and 2 scottish sides. Leave italians to their premiership and dont need to bring South Africans up any more or be bringing A squads down.
Not sure tg4 or eir would be interested even if some more of the pros went back.
Club GAA is a completely different animal. Its not comparable.

yerrahbah

Decent result considering the team put out and the scoreboard after 17 mins

Restarts are becoming problematic, we seem to cough up the ball a bit too easy there.

Scrums were a bit messy, seemed to be some sort of a communication issue between Casey and Scannell.

Defense seemed a bit all over the place in the first half, but we hung in there and got a fortunate try towards the end

We lacked any real string ball carriers in that 15

Thought O'Donoghue had a good game.

O'Sullivan looked decent.

Cloete was being Cloete, gave away some needless penalties but then turned over some crucial ball

R.Scannell had two kicks out on the full but then had some lovely passes

Daly was tidy at fullback

We will probably go full strength against Connacht next week, who will be on a high after beating Leinster, and can go within 4 points of us with a win

Caranica

I think Salanoa also deserves credit. Made a big difference when he came on. I'd just said that we had none of our exciting break makers on and then he came on and did exactly that.

Connacht weren't far off full strength yesterday so let's hope it took something out of them.

The Inbetween is mine

Caranica wrote: »

I think Salanoa also deserves credit. Made a big difference when he came on. I'd just said that we had none of our exciting break makers on and then he came on and did exactly that.

Connacht weren't far off full strength yesterday so let's hope it took something out of them.

Connacht? ...spot the deliberate mistake

sydthebeat

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Connacht? ...spot the deliberate mistake

The poster means that they hope connacht aren't at full strength next week