Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

ionadnapokot

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

He has 3 months to win himself a contract at La Rochelle....if not, he's putting himself in the shop window during that time.
Cant see Connacht offering him money if Munster can't tbh....he's going to end up in France or England

IRFU could and should though. And was it money or just wanted game time?

thomond2006

Munster Rugby and the IRFU can confirm contract extensions for senior players Fineen Wycherley and Diarmuid Barron, the signing of Jason Jenkins, and senior contracts for the Academy quartet of Jack Daly, Josh Wycherley, Thomas Ahern and Jack Crowley.

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/03/30/player-signing-contract-extensions-academy-promotions/

yerrahbah

Phrasing it as a replacement for CJ which is fair enough.

Let the outrage begin

irishbucsfan

yerrahbah wrote: »

Phrasing it as a replacement for CJ which is fair enough.

Let the outrage begin

Seems fair enough really

thomond2006

Diarmuid Barron 2022
Kevin O'Byrne 2022
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2023

Scott Buckley Year 1
Eoghan Clarke Year 3

James Cronin 2021
James French 2022
Dave Kilcoyne 2023
Liam O'Connor 2022
Jeremy Loughman 2022
Josh Wycherley 2023

Stephen Archer 2022
Keynan Knox 2022
John Ryan 2022
Roman Salanoa 2022

Thomas Ahern 2023
Tadhg Beirne 2022
Jason Jenkins 2022
Jean Kleyn 2022
RG Snyman 2022
Fineen Wycherley 2023

Paddy Kelly Year 2
Eoin O'Connor Year 2

Gavin Coombes 2023
Chris Cloete 2022
Jack Daly 2022
John Hodnett 2023
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2023
Peter O'Mahony 2023
Jack O'Sullivan 2023

Alex Kendellen Year 1

Craig Casey 2023
Neil Cronin 2023
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022

Joey Carbery 2022
Jack Crowley 2023
Jake Flannery 2022
Ben Healy 2022

Damian de Allende 2022
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2022
Alex McHenry 2022
Rory Scannell 2023

Andrew Conway 2023
Liam Coombes 2022
Shane Daly 2023
Keith Earls 2022
Seán French 2022
Matt Gallagher 2022
Mike Haley 2023
Calvin Nash 2023

Jonathan Wren Year 3

2021/22 NIEs:
Jason Jenkins (capped), RG Snyman (capped), Damian de Allende (capped)

IN: Jason Jenkins (LK, Toyota Verblitz)
OUT: Billy Holland (LK, retirement), CJ Stander (BR, retirement), JJ Hanrahan (FH, Clermont Auvergne), Darren Sweetnam (WG, La Rochelle)

thomond2006

Munster have gone out of their way to explain the Jenkins signing. CJ retiring caught everyone by surprise and this signing, which otherwise would have been declined by the Blazer Squad, goes someway to compensating Munster.

Otherwise, look at the age profile of the players leaving and the players who have been promoted to replace them. Munster aren't backing youth? Codswallop.

ujjjjjjjjj

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster have gone out of their way to explain the Jenkins signing. CJ retiring caught everyone by surprise and this signing, which otherwise would have been declined by the Blazer Squad, goes someway to compensating Munster.

Otherwise, look at the age profile of the players leaving and the players who have been promoted to replace them. Munster aren't backing youth? Codswallop.

You are in denial, try telling that to a young Munster second row. Once Snyman comes back next season in big games Van Graan will have Snyman, Jenkins and Kleyn filling out lock with Beirne becoming a Stander replacement.

It's just more of the same old stuff.

thomond2006

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

You are in denial, try telling that to a young Munster second row. Once Snyman comes back next season in big games Van Graan will have Snyman, Jenkins and Kleyn filling out lock with Beirne becoming a Stander replacement.

It's just more of the same old stuff.

I mean, I've already said I'd rather that money went towards a hooker or a TH, but ok.
You are looking at one (one!) signing in isolation.

9 players in the academy this season will be in the senior squad next season.

ujjjjjjjjj

thomond2006 wrote: »

I mean, I've already said I'd rather that money went towards a hooker or a TH, but ok.
You are looking at one (one!) signing in isolation.

9 players in the academy this season will be in the senior squad next season.

So trust em and play em and see where it goes.It just sends out all the wrong messages.

And yes I agree if Munster were to sign a player second row is bizarre considering the options coming through there.

I just think it says a lot about the mindset of Van Graan.

Happy to agree to disagree.

aloooof

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

You are in denial, try telling that to a young Munster second row. Once Snyman comes back next season in big games Van Graan will have Snyman, Jenkins and Kleyn filling out lock with Beirne becoming a Stander replacement.

It's just more of the same old stuff.

If we compared average of players selected this season vs all other seasons under Van Grann, how do you think it'd fare?

If we compared academy minutes, how do you think it'd fare?

I'd wager this season has had the lowest average age and the highest academy minutes of any season under Van Graan. That's really not more of the same old stuff.

thomond2006

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

So trust em and play em and see where it goes.It just sends out all the wrong messages.

And yes I agree if Munster were to sign a player second row is bizarre considering the options coming through there.

I just think it says a lot about the mindset of Van Graan.

Happy to agree to disagree.

The IRFU haven't been afraid to tell coaches no on foreign signings. They could have declined this. They didn't.

You can look at this signing in isolation and conclude that Munster don't back young players in any positions or you can conclude that the overall ins and outs of the squad suggest a trust in younger players.

ujjjjjjjjj

aloooof wrote: »

If we compared average of players selected this season vs all other seasons under Van Grann, how do you think it'd fare?

If we compared academy minutes, how do you think it'd fare?

I'd wager this season has had the lowest average age and the highest academy minutes of any season under Van Graan. That's really not more of the same old stuff.

Yes things are improving but this is just a big backward step and it is so.totally unnecessary that is why it is a mistake. Things like this undo a lot of good and as a signing I don't understand the need in that position. So it just points to a mindset issue in the coach. Yes sure let some academy players come through but really when the chips are down I will revert to type.

That is all really.

ujjjjjjjjj

thomond2006 wrote: »

The IRFU haven't been afraid to tell coaches no on foreign signings. They could have declined this. They didn't.

You can look at this signing in isolation and conclude that Munster don't back young players in any positions or you can conclude that the overall ins and outs of the squad suggest a trust in younger players.

This is one that would have been very easy to say no to.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster have gone out of their way to explain the Jenkins signing. CJ retiring caught everyone by surprise and this signing, which otherwise would have been declined by the Blazer Squad, goes someway to compensating Munster.

Otherwise, look at the age profile of the players leaving and the players who have been promoted to replace them. Munster aren't backing youth? Codswallop.

Cj replacements are there though we have depth at the moment. If we where getting someone in I'd want them to be absolutely world class if not let the young guys okay

thomond2006

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

This is one that would have been very easy to say no to.

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Cj replacements are there though we have depth at the moment. If we where getting someone in I'd want them to be absolutely world class if not let the young guys okay

I wouldn't have wanted this signing either but I'm not going to make a state of the nation address that Munster don't back young players because of it.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

I wouldn't have wanted this signing either but I'm not going to make a state of the nation address that Munster don't back young players because of it.

Na iv already made a post arguing that they do back youth and have done a lot recently. Still as you mentioned this signing seems odd

Jump_In_Jack

Seem to be a lot fewer academy players for next season with so many being promoted to senior, a lot were even only in year 1 or 2 and brought straight into senior squad, any ideas who could be joining the academy next season in what positions?
There should be a need to get a couple of young tight head props into the pipeline if any prospects are coming through the underage ranks.

Cronin and Marshall the last two players I’d have expected to see resigning for next season at least, both are replaceable with Academy prospects coming through, I wonder if they are looking for too much money and it’s hitting a bit of a dead end for them. Could be more lucrative offers on the table in France.

hahashake

Don't suppose if anyone knows whether Marshall is retiring or going to England/France /Japan?

ionadnapokot

thomond2006 wrote: »

Thomas Ahern 2023
Tadhg Beirne 2022
Jason Jenkins 2022
Jean Kleyn 2022
RG Snyman 2022
Fineen Wycherley 2023

Paddy Kelly Year 2
Eoin O'Connor Year 2

Gavin Coombes 2023
Chris Cloete 2022
Jack Daly 2022
John Hodnett 2023
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2023
Peter O'Mahony 2023
Jack O'Sullivan 2023

Alex Kendellen Year 1

6-2 bench forever

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

The IRFU haven't been afraid to tell coaches no on foreign signings. They could have declined this. They didn't.

You can look at this signing in isolation and conclude that Munster don't back young players in any positions or you can conclude that the overall ins and outs of the squad suggest a trust in younger players.

Have to completely agree here.

It makes complete sense to me. I think anyone having an issue with it are going out of their way to try to find a problem with it to be honest.

And on a wider point it's all good saying Munster SHOULD have invested in the front row. I agree with that too. But there's one thing saying you SHOULD recruit in a certain position and then actually doing it, for all we know Munster have had a look at options there and decided the options they looked at didn't represent value for money, in a year where people aren't exactly desperate to be moving around for work.

yerrahbah

hahashake wrote: »

Don't suppose if anyone knows whether Marshall is retiring or going to England/France /Japan?

Read somewhere he was going back to NZ, not sure if he plans to continue playing or not

Quin_Dub

thomond2006 wrote: »

Munster have gone out of their way to explain the Jenkins signing. CJ retiring caught everyone by surprise and this signing, which otherwise would have been declined by the Blazer Squad, goes someway to compensating Munster.

Otherwise, look at the age profile of the players leaving and the players who have been promoted to replace them. Munster aren't backing youth? Codswallop.

The problem with someone like Jenkins is that the games he'll be selected for are exactly the games where the like of Ahearn and Wycherley should be starting.

Assuming Snyman is back and available , he starts and Kleyn and/or Beirne will be the other locks in the bigger games with Beirne probably playing more than a few games at 6.

He's not a "replacement for Stander" - Barring injuries he won't be starting in any of the games that Stander would have been playing in were he available.

Jenkins will absolutely categorically take game time away from the younger guys.

thomond2006

Quin_Dub wrote: »

The problem with someone like Jenkins is that the games he'll be selected for are exactly the games where the like of Ahearn and Wycherley should be starting.

Assuming Snyman is back and available , he starts and Kleyn and/or Beirne will be the other locks in the bigger games with Beirne probably playing more than a few games at 6.

He's not a "replacement for Stander" - Barring injuries he won't be starting in any of the games that Stander would have been playing in were he available.

Jenkins will absolutely categorically take game time away from the younger guys.

If you take the statement from Munster at face value, he is a replacement for Stander.

Speaking about the signing of Jason Jenkins, van Graan added, “We’ve had to manage CJ’s recent news and look at what’s needed across our back row next season with Billy who provides cover there also retiring at the end of June.

“I’ve seen Jason’s progression through the South African ranks and while he was highly sought after, I am delighted he will be joining us this summer as I know he will make a great addition to the squad.

“Everyone is aware of the level of players we’re losing from the pack and Jason brings the required level of professionalism, physicality, and athleticism that we can draw on as he competes for his place next season.”

I think we perhaps expect too much from someone like Ahern as we've seen freak athletes like Porter and James Ryan at Leinster who progressed to international level at such a young age.

Clegg

I understand that Larkham can't come out and say Munster were crap last weekend, but this kind of blatant lie only serves to piss off the fanbase as well as make him a figure for ridicule. The game was not evenly matched as he tries to put it.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1376870357303496705?s=09

sydthebeat

if theyve got the skill set and the game plan, youd wonder what it was that they left in the dressing room.....

"It was fairly evenly matched throughout the game"

What match was he watching?

Dubinusa

I wonder if Leinster would sign Sweetnam? I think he's a good player and relatively cheap. He could probably flourish at Leinster and I think he'd get loads of minutes.

Quin_Dub

thomond2006 wrote: »

If you take the statement from Munster at face value, he is a replacement for Stander.



I think we perhaps expect too much from someone like Ahern as we've seen freak athletes like Porter and James Ryan at Leinster who progressed to international level at such a young age.

He's a replacement for Stander from the perspective that he's filling that budget/slot in the roster , but in terms of the games that he's likely to be involved in , he is absolutely not going to be replacing Stander.

In terms of "games selected for" he'll be far closer to being a replacement for Billy Holland than Stander - And Wycherley and Ahearn should be the ones playing those games, not an Non IQ journeyman.

Given that Stander was on a central contract , signing Jenkins is probably part of the reason that Sweetnam and JJH were let go, financially speaking.

It's money they need not have spent and if they were spending it , it should have been on a top quality Tight head.

yerrahbah

We have 4 senior THs on the books next season, none of which are in the Ireland squad.

There was no way we were bringing in a 5th.

Quin_Dub

yerrahbah wrote: »

We have 4 senior THs on the books next season, none of which are in the Ireland squad.

There was no way we were bringing in a 5th.

None of them are good enough at the highest level - That's the issue.

Any TH signed would have to be in the "experienced International" category.

Think BJ Botha type of guy.

Absolutely not talking about spending money on a journeyman.