Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

TRC10

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

That makes sense I think they said a season or two ago they wanted to build the irish connection again

Munster should try to build their Irish connection again lol








Thats a joke btw

Dubinusa

Munster could have Dan Carter, B.O.D, Kolbe, SBW and the Boks tight 5.
Wouldn't make a difference! VanGrann is the Inspector Clouseau of coaching.

Jump_In_Jack

Caranica wrote: »

Jenkins got a one year contract, one year. I'm missing whatever the big deal is if Munster intend to play him in the back row. Remember we committed to playing Joey at 10 not 15 and I can't remember him ever starting at 15 for Munster. Much ado about nothing.

Will be be gutted to see Marshall go, he was mooted to be capped for Ireland but injury got in the way. Such a supremely decent guy, of all the rugby players I've ever met.

I’d like to see this but probably won’t happen,
1. Kilcoyne, Loughman, Wycherley, O’Connor, French
2. O’Byrne, Scannell, Barron, Clarke, Buckley
3. Salanoa, Ryan, Archer, Knox,
4. Beirne, Kleyn, Kelly,
5. Snyman, Ahern, O’Connor,
6. O’Mahony, Wycherley, Jenkins, Hurley
7. Hodnett, Cloete, Daly, Kendellen
8. Coombes, O’Donoghue, O’Sullivan

yerrahbah

https://twitter.com/rugby_ie/status/1377176337715245057

Seemingly Jenkins has signed as a backrower who can cover 2nd row. We shall see how that actually plays out

He'll be a strong ball carrier in the back row who might take that pressure off the likes of Hodnett and O'Sullivan.

We had Arno Botha for two years and that doesn't seem to have hindered Coombes development

theVersatile

Was Taute signed as back three cover or am I making that up? Trying to think of situations where players were played outside of where they were said to be going to play

sydthebeat

yerrahbah wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rugby_ie/status/1377176337715245057

Seemingly Jenkins has signed as a backrower who can cover 2nd row. We shall see how that actually plays out

He'll be a strong ball carrier in the back row who might take that pressure off the likes of Hodnett and O'Sullivan.

We had Arno Botha for two years and that doesn't seem to have hindered Coombes development

youve gone from "influence" to "not hinder" in light speed there.

it doesnt say much to Synman or Kleyn that they cant "influence" wycherley or Ahern

Buer

yerrahbah wrote: »

Seemingly Jenkins has signed as a backrower who can cover 2nd row. We shall see how that actually plays out

Probably doesn't make much difference, in reality. If he plays 6, Beirne plays lock. If Beirne plays 6, Jenkins plays lock.

Ultimately, he seems like a good player (from the highlight reels online) who has a pretty good skillset. Looks like a guy more in the Snyman mould than the Kleyn mould although obviously not at that level overall.

I think Kleyn is going to be the one who misses out ultimately, here. I'm not sure he can have many complaints either. He's a great competitor and gives a massive physical performance every time but he is simply too limited (although some of his handling errors certainly weren't helped by Conor Murray firing passes towards his head).

Overall, it helps to address one of the key issues that Munster face which is depth. They have an excellent front line 19 or 20 guys who are capable of competing at the highest level of the club game. After that, there's a notable drop off to others and if there's an injury, the back up often isn't good enough.

The one area which is going to be really interesting next season is outhalf. With JJH gone, there's going to be a lot of expecation for the youngsters to deliver. I don't think Healy is going to be that guy either. However, Crowley might well be and I'd expect him to move past Healy by the end of 2021. If Carbery is going to be out of the picture with Ireland for stretches of the season, there'll be huge potential for development at 10. With that said, there's also a significant risk there if Carbery ships any sort of lengthy injury.

awec

yerrahbah wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rugby_ie/status/1377176337715245057

Seemingly Jenkins has signed as a backrower who can cover 2nd row. We shall see how that actually plays out

He'll be a strong ball carrier in the back row who might take that pressure off the likes of Hodnett and O'Sullivan.

We had Arno Botha for two years and that doesn't seem to have hindered Coombes development

Jenkins is a 25 year old who has just spent the last 4 years playing in Japan. What exactly do they think the likes of Ahern is going to learn from him?

I don't mind this signing but Munster are fooling nobody with this nonsense. What this is is JVG trying to spend his way to a trophy next season. I've no issues with that.

Quin_Dub

yerrahbah wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rugby_ie/status/1377176337715245057

Seemingly Jenkins has signed as a backrower who can cover 2nd row. We shall see how that actually plays out

He'll be a strong ball carrier in the back row who might take that pressure off the likes of Hodnett and O'Sullivan.

We had Arno Botha for two years and that doesn't seem to have hindered Coombes development

So , as someone posted in the comments to the above 42 article.

He's a 25 year old with a single SA cap from nearly 3 years ago - He's hardly a Brad Thorn or Nathan Hines type of guy with decades of experience as a Pro to share with the younger guys.

At the same age Wycherley has played as many games for Munster as Jenkins did for the Bulls before he left to play in the Japanese league for the last 2-3 years which is an awful standard , probably just about equivalent to a Dragons vs Zebre Pro14 game.

He might be a decent player , but to suggest that he's a guy that will share experience and help the development of people like Wycherley or Ahearn seems a stretch to say the least.

theVersatile

Ryanhardt Elstadt out for Toulouse as he flew to South Africa to obtain his pilot's lisence and cannot enter Ireland under current restrictions; per Ultimate Rugby.

Former Former Former

This line about helping the young guys develop is always trotted out. It's great because it's impossible to quantify and thus impossible to disprove.

In this case, it sounds like a load of nonsense but who cares, he'll be a good signing for a team desperately in need of a lift.

thomond2006

Of the 11 players joining the senior squad, you have Jenkins and Osborne (tbc) along with nine academy players. Bringing up nine academy players is, to use a Covidism, unprecedented. If some have an axe to grind, they can by all means focus on one SA signing but overall the age profile of the squad looks healthy and young(er) players are being backed to be in the first choice 23 at LH and at flyhalf, for example.

Yeah_Right

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Munster need better starter plays off set piece, and better ball players through the spine of the team so the attack can be more unpredictable. I'm thinking Coombes at 8 rather than 6 and Daly at 15. Also, while the centres aren't bad passers, they're too similar. There's too much bosh and not enough evasion. I think they should try Earls at 13. I used to groan anytime I saw him at 13 under Kidney for Ireland, but he improved his handling a lot under Smith, and is actually pretty good in that regard now.

Advocating for Earls at centre doesn't do much for your credibility. He has been tried there numerous times over the past decade and has not been a success. Can you point me to one match that he started at centre where he put in a good performance?

Also I never knew he had been coached by Wayne Smith. When was this?

irishbucsfan

Quin_Dub wrote: »

So , as someone posted in the comments to the above 42 article.

He's a 25 year old with a single SA cap from nearly 3 years ago - He's hardly a Brad Thorn or Nathan Hines type of guy with decades of experience as a Pro to share with the younger guys.

At the same age Wycherley has played as many games for Munster as Jenkins did for the Bulls before he left to play in the Japanese league for the last 2-3 years which is an awful standard , probably just about equivalent to a Dragons vs Zebre Pro14 game.

He might be a decent player , but to suggest that he's a guy that will share experience and help the development of people like Wycherley or Ahearn seems a stretch to say the least.

Japan may be an awful standard but to be fair he’s been working with some of the best players in the world there. Hooper, Read, working with Steve Hansen etc

It’s not impossible that he can have a really positive impact even if it’s almost certainly just a nothing line being spouted to the media.

yerrahbah

theVersatile wrote: »

Was Taute signed as back three cover or am I making that up? Trying to think of situations where players were played outside of where they were said to be going to play

I think he was technically signed as a fullback, may have played there once or twice

awec

awec wrote: »

What this is is JVG trying to spend his way to a trophy next season. I've no issues with that.

Surely if that's the case then a tighthead would have been a better use of funds?

And I've no issue with provinces going the Toulon route either, but big signings often tend to be complete flops here. Piatau being one notable example and on the face of things DeAllende looking like another one.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely if that's the case then a tighthead would have been a better use of funds?

And I've no issue with provinces going the Toulon route either, but big signings often tend to be complete flops here. Piatau being one notable example and on the face of things DeAllende looking like another one.

A tighthead is a high priority but ultimately there were four players already signed up for next season. Hooker is the position where there was contract space as few months but Munster opted to retain Scannell and Barron while releasing Marshall (tbc).

All THs are up for renewal after next season so if Ryan/Archer are retiring/due to be released or Knox/Salanoa don't work out, Munster can make a signing.

Jump_In_Jack

I'd like to see this in the backs:
9. Murray, Casey, Cronin, Osborne
10. Carbery, Crowley, Healy, Flannery
11. Conway, Coombes
12. De Allende, Farrell, Scannell
13. Daly, French, Goggin, McHenry
14. Earls, Nash
15. Haley, Gallagher, Wren

Emphasis on big 12, dynamic 13, and speed on the wings, and three dedicated fullbacks.
If Wren isn't seen as good enough to graduate to a senior contract then maybe Flannery covers fullback as well.
Daly and French should only cover wing if injuries require it, could see Scannell being phased out by the end of his contract in 2023, assuming Goggin and McHenry pass him out.

Strange seeing such a small academy stock for next year,
1 hooker year 2, 2 second rows year 3, 1 back row year 2, and assuming Hurley joins as a second row that can cover back row for year one academy.

It's possible they could be winding up the whole academy system after the coming season, could see all of those mentioned above being offered senior contracts the season after next if they are good enough, or being let go and from then on only bringing in prospects straight into the senior setup maybe.
I always felt the academy should end after U20s anyway, the time to accelerate the young players is between 15 and 20 really, by 21 they should be either fully senior or left off to play AIL and Munster A and see if they can progress with some strength and conditioning help.

thomond2006

I'd say Wren is almost certainly going to be let go, JIJ. Munster have 46 senior players signed up (pending Osborne replacing McCarthy), I wouldn't expect more.

sydthebeat

The latest RTE podcast really tore into Munster and the state of Munster rugby, echoing a lot of the worries already mentioned on this forum.

aloooof

sydthebeat wrote: »

The latest RTE podcast really tore into Munster and the state of Munster rugby, echoing a lot of the worries already mentioned on this forum.

And last week on here we had a sizeable contingent telling us Munster were favourites.

It think the reality is somewhere in the middle. Like old phrase, you’re never as good as they say when you’re winning and you’re never as bad they say when you’re losing.

theVersatile

It's all a bit reactionary tbh. Before the Leinster game I think most fans would've said that great progress had been made in the attacking game - but that all gets undone fairly quickly with a loss.

sebdavis

sydthebeat wrote: »

The latest RTE podcast really tore into Munster and the state of Munster rugby, echoing a lot of the worries already mentioned on this forum.

I don't see it echoed here. The bias on RTE is clear as nearly all the members of the panel are clearly Munster fans. Normally they very pro Munster but at least they have questioned the development of young players and also why Munster need to buy a second row, as they say he is not a back row. Seemed to be a lot of sense discussed for once

I wouldn't call it over reaction, talk about quality players, quality squad, Rowntree has done a brill job etc. Just questioned a lot of what should be questioned, plus a lot of questions I see Munster fans asking

sydthebeat

sebdavis wrote: »

I don't see it echoed here. The bias on RTE is clear as nearly all the members of the panel are clearly Munster fans. Normally they very pro Munster but at least they have questioned the development of young players and also why Munster need to buy a second row, as they say he is not a back row. Seemed to be a lot of sense discussed for once

I wouldn't call it over reaction, talk about quality players, quality squad, Rowntree has done a brill job etc. Just questioned a lot of what should be questioned, plus a lot of questions I see Munster fans asking

I said echoed on this forum, not echoed in this thread.

The point about Jenkins being signed, about if JVG is good enough, where is the progress, the lack of academy development, the reliance on imported players, lack of game time given to younger players, pathways for younger players in the absence of a comparable schools system etc etc have all been discussed in various threads across this forum.

Its not unusual that the main source of push back against these arguments have been this forum though.

I thought a very pertinent point was the fact that scarlets Glasgow and connacht could all organise themselves to win a Pro14 in the last ten years yet munster couldn't..... Despite what we're consistently being told that's its only leinster that's ahead of them and that they're a top four European team

And just to be clear... It's not Leinster people making those arguments...


It's munster people

theVersatile

theVersatile wrote: »

It's all a bit reactionary tbh. Before the Leinster game I think most fans would've said that great progress had been made in the attacking game - but that all gets undone fairly quickly with a loss.

And beyond that munster have been the second best team In the pro14 for a large portion of the last decade they just happen to be behind a juggernaut.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

I said echoed on this forum, not echoed in this thread.

The point about Jenkins being signed, about if JVG is good enough, where is the progress, the lack of academy development, the reliance on imported players, lack of game time given to younger players, pathways for younger players in the absence of a comparable schools system etc etc have all been discussed in various threads across this forum.

Its not unusual that the main source of push back against these arguments have been this forum though.

I thought a very pertinent point was the fact that scarlets Glasgow and connacht could all organise themselves to win a Pro14 in the last ten years yet munster couldn't..... Despite what we're consistently being told that's its only leinster that's ahead of them and that they're a top four European team

And just to be clear... It's not Leinster people making those arguments...


It's munster people

Right but one big year does not make them a better team. Go look at every teams final standings over the last decade

aloooof

sydthebeat wrote: »

I thought a very pertinent point was the fact that scarlets Glasgow and connacht could all organise themselves to win a Pro14 in the last ten years yet munster couldn't..... Despite what we're consistently being told that's its only leinster that's ahead of them and that they're a top four European team

I think the stage of exit in Europe for those teams over the last decade bears that out tho:

Stage| Munster | Scarlets | Glasgow | Connacht
Group | 4 | 8 | 8 | 4
QF | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0
SF | 5 | 1 | 0 | 0


Ultimately, silverware is all that matters, but Munster's relatively level of performance in Europe has been vastly superior to all those teams over the last decade.

sydthebeat

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Right but one big year does not make them a better team. Go look at every teams final standings over the last decade

i had a long post about wins and looses done up but i think if the above viewpoint is commonplace among fans then it would be pointless post here.

that such a disappointing outlook for any sports fan to have...

why are "worse" teams winning silverware... maybe that the question that should be asked

yerrahbah

Cloete had the most turnovers in the Pro14 this year.

Pro14 put together quick highlight package that includes...no turnovers :pac:

https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/1377222664054583297

Here's a quick look at his work at the breakdown vs Ulster with bonus footage of Timoney

https://twitter.com/TheLooseH/status/1377243712359698434

thomond2006

sydthebeat wrote: »

i had a long post about wins and looses done up but i think if the above viewpoint is commonplace among fans then it would be pointless post here.

that such a disappointing outlook for any sports fan to have...

why are "worse" teams winning silverware... maybe that the question that should be asked

Scarlets had two seasons where they looked like a top European side (destroying Leinster and Munster on consecutive weekends in Dublin was outstanding) and then they retreated to the pack, just like Ospreys and Glasgow before them.

Munster have been a much more consistent outfit over the last 10 or so seasons.

Who you believe has had a better 10 years depends on your perspective on the currency of trophies.