Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

sebdavis

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Amazing how many fans from the other provinces are on this thread with in depth knowledge of Jenkins, the Munster academy and player development pathways and are also able to see into the future and how Jenkins personally will hold back so many players.

I look forward to the stories of how Jenkins steals the academy players boots, cuts the brake lines on the cars of the development players and scares Ahern into moving to Leinster to keep Franno happy.

The whole discussion is because of podcast like RTE. A podcast full of Munster fans. The biggest critic was Lenihan who explained in detail the problem.
Nothing to do with Leinster or Franno as you claim

The Inbetween is mine

If anyone is interested, channel 4 will show the Clermont v Wasps game live at midday if anyone wants to see who we are playing in the next round

Did munster say he was here to help develop younger players? As far as I can see people on here have said guys like kendellan/hodnett(coming off injury) shouldn't be expected to be starting

Pre this signing i think munster have 5 senior back rows and 2 academy prospects (albeit I expect hodnett to get plenty of time) to put that in perspective leinster have 9 senior back rows plus academy ulster have 7 senior back rows plus academy connaght have 8 senior back rows plus academy.

Munster have sighted this as they need bodies in the back row as cj was leaving unexpectedly. Jenkins for a year to allow hodnett to get back kendallen to turn 21 and get into the senior rotation seems reasonable enough

The optics of a south african and van grann seem.to be outweighing the reality here and the munster aren't backing youth angle is just incorrect at this stage

Buer

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Did munster say he was here to help develop younger players?

Larkham mentioned it this week. Although, Larkham's comments generally in that press conference were a bit odd.

I think he is going to be immense for these young guys, particularly Thomas Ahern and Fineen, he’s going to be immense for their growth.

The Inbetween is mine

Where's Venjur? At least when be comes in here you can be assured of a top quality píssrip...poor fare so far I must say

Akrasia

It’s pretty damn galling to have so many Leinster fans, who have by far the biggest panel in the league, and who never shut up about their ‘strength in depth’ coming in here to bitch about Munster signing one new player to replace 2 senior players who are retiring and multiple squad players whose contracts weren’t renewed or who left to play elsewhere

sebdavis

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Did munster say he was here to help develop younger players? As far as I can see people on here have said guys like kendellan/hodnett(coming off injury) shouldn't be expected to be starting

Pre this signing i think munster have 5 senior back rows and 2 academy prospects (albeit I expect hodnett to get plenty of time) to put that in perspective leinster have 9 senior back rows plus academy ulster have 7 senior back rows plus academy connaght have 8 senior back rows plus academy.

Munster have sighted this as they need bodies in the back row as cj was leaving unexpectedly. Jenkins for a year to allow hodnett to get back kendallen to turn 21 and get into the senior rotation seems reasonable enough

The optics of a south african and van grann seem.to be outweighing the reality here and the munster aren't backing youth angle is just incorrect at this stage

He isn't a back row. He is a second row that the odd time might have turned out at back row. I am sure you are aware of that since everyone has already mentioned that and the talk of blocking Ahearn

salmocab

Akrasia wrote: »

It’s pretty damn galling to have so many Leinster fans, who have by far the biggest panel in the league, and who never shut up about their ‘strength in depth’ coming in here to bitch about Munster signing one new player to replace 2 senior players who are retiring and multiple squad players whose contracts weren’t renewed or who left to play elsewhere

So many?

sebdavis

Akrasia wrote: »

It’s pretty damn galling to have so many Leinster fans, who have by far the biggest panel in the league, and who never shut up about their ‘strength in depth’ coming in here to bitch about Munster signing one new player to replace 2 senior players who are retiring and multiple squad players whose contracts weren’t renewed or who left to play elsewhere

I think you will see Connacht & Ulster fans are also here, Leinster have a squad because they promote young players. Also they are bulk suppliers to the Ireland squad, something Munster is not and it going in the wrong direction for a number of years.
Also as mentioned numerous times, this conversation started because of Munster fans on a podcast, nothing to do with Leinster at all.

Akrasia

sebdavis wrote: »

I think you will see Connacht & Ulster fans are also here, Leinster have a squad because they promote young players. Also they are bulk suppliers to the Ireland squad, something Munster is not and it going in the wrong direction for a number of years.
Also as mentioned numerous times, this conversation started because of Munster fans on a podcast, nothing to do with Leinster at all.

It’s a bullsh1t conversation. Munster cannot magic academy players out of thin air and play them in the senior team and we need a utility forward to cover key positions during international windows when we could be really stretched

I heard lenihan waffling on in his usual style about Munster needing to bring the likes of Salanoa and Hodnett onto the senior team. Those lads have been injured for half the season. We would loved to have had Salanoa fit and ready for last week but he’s hardly played a game all season

Lenihan went on about Munster buying 2 SA players and not getting a return, Snyman played about 11 minutes of rugby all season

thomond2006

Akrasia wrote: »

I heard lenihan waffling on in his usual style about Munster needing to bring the likes of Salanoa and Hodnett onto the senior team. Those lads have been injured for half the season. We would loved to have had Salanoa fit and ready for last week but he’s hardly played a game all season

This is a big problem with many, many rugby pundits here. They are not informed and/or don't bother to inform themselves. Hodnett started two Pro14 games just before he tore his achilles in training.

Another boardsie mentioned that Quinlan was on OTB months back and was wondering why Max Deegan wasn't being considered by Ireland.

Kirk Van Houten

sebdavis wrote: »

I think you will see Connacht & Ulster fans are also here, Leinster have a squad because they promote young players. Also they are bulk suppliers to the Ireland squad, something Munster is not and it going in the wrong direction for a number of years.
Also as mentioned numerous times, this conversation started because of Munster fans on a podcast, nothing to do with Leinster at all.

Well if this a problem for Irish rugby and the Ireland team let's talk about the very obvious population density discrepancies and socioeconomic disparity between the provinces and how this can equalised across the provinces.

Maybe a centralised national academy with the provinces getting picks akin to a draft system would stop this inequality and solve the problem for the national side.

Of course I'm sure everyone is in favour of stopping this inequality and helping the national side and people aren't on this thread trolling and wumming for the sake of it.

ShineyShiney

Call a spade a spade lads, Munster are not going to win anything with a buying strategy and are not going to win anything with a home grown Munster player strategy. It's a combination of the two and most well intentioned Rugby fans and supporters of Irish rugby recognise that currently the optics in Munster do not point to a balance in this regard.

I have no issue with this player or his country of origin, I'm sure he will add to the Munster playing squad.

irishbucsfan

ShineyShiney wrote: »

Call a spade a spade lads, Munster are not going to win anything with a buying strategy and are not going to win anything with a home grown Munster player strategy. It's a combination of the two and most well intentioned Rugby fans and supporters of Irish rugby recognise that currently the optics in Munster do not point to a balance in this regard.

I have no issue with this player or his country of origin, I'm sure he will add to the Munster playing squad. However ge does

Not only that, but the provinces have a limit of NIQs for a reason.

Leinster fans weren't complaining when Brad Thorne was signed to play in the closing stages in 2012 despite it being an extremely short-sighted signing.

Signing players to help you win today is not a problem at all. The problem is its not a long term strategy as you say, the main questions are why the depth of the squad isn't what you'd expect from Munster. But there are a few good explanations for that. And if its true that Ian Costello is coming in to the academy then I think that's a positive move in the right direction to fix that. And I think Munster are actually totally capable of producing enough to be a top European side with 3/4 NIQs to fill in the gaps.

Dubinusa

Problem with a draft is some lads won't want to leave their home province. I think most players have the mindset that they can make it at their home province.

sebdavis

sebdavis wrote: »

He isn't a back row. He is a second row that the odd time might have turned out at back row. I am sure you are aware of that since everyone has already mentioned that and the talk of blocking Ahearn

Munster have said they are signing him as back row cover though

Clermont win with the last play of the game against Wasps.

thomond2006

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Munster have said they are signing him as back row cover though

He's signed as a ball carrier / power forward in the CJ mould basically.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not only that, but the provinces have a limit of NIQs for a reason.

Leinster fans weren't complaining when Brad Thorne was signed to play in the closing stages in 2012 despite it being an extremely short-sighted signing.

Signing players to help you win today is not a problem at all. The problem is its not a long term strategy as you say, the main questions are why the depth of the squad isn't what you'd expect from Munster. But there are a few good explanations for that. And if its true that Ian Costello is coming in to the academy then I think that's a positive move in the right direction to fix that. And I think Munster are actually totally capable of producing enough to be a top European side with 3/4 NIQs to fill in the gaps.

Your absoloutly correct.part of the problem is we had the bones of a decade where we produced nothing from our academy (truthfully it became sparse towards the end of the golden era also) this has been looked at and rectified the last few years were once again producing and playing young players. If costello can make some changes so that we can consistently pull players from all parts of the province that would be amazing

Sir Guy who smiles

Just to change the subject, if I may:

The internet is filled with Munster fans demanding that ROG be brought home and made Munster head coach, and expect their numbers to multiply if we loose today.

As a fan of both Munster and ROG, I have to say there is nothing to make me think he wants the Munster job.

ROG is trying to lead the best coaching career he can, and fair play to him. But I think his plan after La Rochelle is- bigger club, then Ireland( maybe with another international job in between on the level of Japan or maybe Scotland). Munster head coach is not on his radar.

FrannoFan

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Well if this a problem for Irish rugby and the Ireland team let's talk about the very obvious population density discrepancies and socioeconomic disparity between the provinces and how this can equalised across the provinces.

Maybe a centralised national academy with the provinces getting picks akin to a draft system would stop this inequality and solve the problem for the national side.

Of course I'm sure everyone is in favour of stopping this inequality and helping the national side and people aren't on this thread trolling and wumming for the sake of it.

Don't need a national academy or a draft. The draft works in american sports because of it's a guaranteed career earnings. An academy spot out of school is no guarantee so lads rightly have to prioritize college.

Karl martin after going to montpellier, hickey gone to ospreys. There is plenty of talent in Leinster not being taken in by Leinster academy there for other provinces to contact. (Timmoney to ulster, boyle to connacht etc)

Yeah_Right

Dubinusa wrote: »

Problem with a draft is some lads won't want to leave their home province. I think most players have the mindset that they can make it at their home province.

They should be told to do it or find a new career. The IRFU are paying their wages and if the player doesn't want to work where the IRFU has a vacancy then they should find a new employer.

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

They should be told to do it or find a new career. The IRFU are paying their wages and if the player doesn't want to work where the IRFU has a vacancy then they should find a new employer.

Silly attitude when most of them could get a significant pay bump in france or england

thomond2006

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Silly attitude when most of them could get a significant pay bump in france or england

I'd question if that's true, given that so few key players leave Ireland.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd question if that's true, given that so few key players leave Ireland.

Playing for your local team and potentially country is a big selling point tell Peter o mahony to ship to Dublin and he probably goes south of france instead

ersatz

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd question if that's true, given that so few key players leave Ireland.

Agreed, if draft was the avenue to pro contracts in Ireland young players would get on with it. I can't imagine there are many who would forego a rugby career because they can't play with their home province.

Burkie1203

ersatz wrote: »

Agreed, if draft was the avenue to pro contracts in Ireland young players would get on with it. I can't imagine there are many who would forego a rugby career because they can't play with their home province.

A lot of Dublin based players may not be willing to leave Dublin if their preferred college courses arent available elsewhere.

thomond2006

Burkie1203 wrote: »

A lot of Dublin based players may not be willing to leave Dublin if their preferred college courses arent available elsewhere.

Why just Dublin?

A draft system would be incredibly unpopular with everyone.

Teferi

Burkie1203 wrote: »

A lot of Dublin based players may not be willing to leave Dublin if their preferred college courses arent available elsewhere.

I'm against the idea of a draft, but the provinces seem to have the ear of most of the local big universities - they'd get the players their courses if that was an issue, I feel.

Yeah_Right

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Playing for your local team and potentially country is a big selling point tell Peter o mahony to ship to Dublin and he probably goes south of france instead

So a player who isn't willing to move a couple of hours drive away will instead move to completely different country??? Right. That makes sense.

No one is talking about established players. Or at least, I'm not. I'm talking about players at academy level.