Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

thomond2006

You're forcing players at 17-19 to potentially move when they're already in a provincial system.

I don't see the upside.

hahashake

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Thinking outside the box here, Stewart Island just off NZ used to be part of New Munster. I reckon the kiwis have forgotten about it, so maybe could set up some sort of secret base academy there

Stewart Island was formerly known as New Leinster.;)

Podge_irl

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So basically guys are doing university courses while also attending a rugby academy. Pretty much what I thought. I still don't see why there couldn't be some sort of centralised draft system where players get picked up by the 4 provinces. If a player refuses to go, he can go play AIL and the IRFU can stop spending money on him.

Every other country has players move to different states, cities, regions etc in the hope of getting game time and furthering their career. In a lot of cases they end up playing for a team different to the one they grew up supporting or where they did their development. It seems to be only in Ireland that this is an issue and I genuinely don't understand why.

They're not literally forced into it though.

Yeah_Right

Podge_irl wrote: »

They're not literally forced into it though.

In NZ they are. Sort of. The Super Rugby regions have a group of 30 (I think) players on their books. Every other player in the country is available to any region in a draft or as injury replacement. This includes players who are on development contracts with their home region. If you are needed somewhere, you go. It's part of your contract with the NZRU. There is no reason that Ireland couldn't do the same.

thomond2006

Yeah_Right wrote: »

In NZ they are. Sort of. The Super Rugby regions have a group of 30 (I think) players on their books. Every other player in the country is available to any region in a draft or as injury replacement. This includes players who are on development contracts with their home region. If you are needed somewhere, you go. It's part of your contract with the NZRU. There is no reason that Ireland couldn't do the same.

It seems NZ is more national team centric than Ireland is.

sebdavis

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So basically guys are doing university courses while also attending a rugby academy. Pretty much what I thought. I still don't see why there couldn't be some sort of centralised draft system where players get picked up by the 4 provinces. If a player refuses to go, he can go play AIL and the IRFU can stop spending money on him.

Every other country has players move to different states, cities, regions etc in the hope of getting game time and furthering their career. In a lot of cases they end up playing for a team different to the one they grew up supporting or where they did their development. It seems to be only in Ireland that this is an issue and I genuinely don't understand why.

Ridiculous idea. You are going to ban players unless they move from home to another part of the country?
The current system is producing players and you want to break it? why? to cover up for issues that Munster won't fix themselves?

Lets say you set up a centralised system, pi** off all the young players and families etc, end up losing players who won't move etc. Draft comes around and Munster end with up Ahearn, the best young second row in Ireland uncapped. They will still sign a SA second row to play instead of him. SO what is better in this scenario? from my point of view it has only made everything worse for everyone

thomond2006

You're fierce angry.

sebdavis

thomond2006 wrote: »

You're fierce angry.

I called an idea ridiculous so I am angry? :P

The person is talking about ending young players career because they won't transfer. It is ridiculous and no NZ don't do it.

hahashake

In fairness, Ireland is absolutely massive. Much easier to ship in a guy from the other side of the world.

sydthebeat

sebdavis wrote: »

I called an idea ridiculous so I am angry? :P

The person is talking about ending young players career because they won't transfer. It is ridiculous and no NZ don't do it.

Ending careers cos a guy won't move a couple of hours away from his parents???

What kind of snowflakes do you think these guys are

Yeah_Right

thomond2006 wrote: »

It seems NZ is more national team centric than Ireland is.

That's true. And I suppose that's how I'm looking at the whole situation. A system that spreads talent around the country making all the provinces stronger and creating more depth for the national team. For me it's not a Munster v Leinster thing. Its bigger than that.

sydthebeat

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That's true. And I suppose that's how I'm looking at the whole situation. A system that spreads talent around the country making all the provinces stronger and creating more depth for the national team. For me it's not a Munster v Leinster thing. Its bigger than that.

Am I correct, YR, to think that at the end of the super rugby season all the franchise head coaches come together with the national team coaches and discuss what they did during the year which was new and worked??

Yeah_Right

sebdavis wrote: »

Ridiculous idea. You are going to ban players unless they move from home to another part of the country?
The current system is producing players and you want to break it? why? to cover up for issues that Munster won't fix themselves?

Lets say you set up a centralised system, pi** off all the young players and families etc, end up losing players who won't move etc. Draft comes around and Munster end with up Ahearn, the best young second row in Ireland uncapped. They will still sign a SA second row to play instead of him. SO what is better in this scenario? from my point of view it has only made everything worse for everyone

Where did I say anything about banning a player? Yes the current system is producing players but it is also creating logjams. I'm simply looking at ways to get the most out of the talent available and you seem to be getting upset about that.

Burkie1203

sydthebeat wrote: »

Ending careers cos a guy won't move a couple of hours away from his parents???

What kind of snowflakes do you think these guys are

Isn't there 2 Leinster players studying medicine at the moment.

Like where else can they do that in Ireland?

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

Am I correct, YR, to think that at the end of the super rugby season all the franchise head coaches come together with the national team coaches and discuss what they did during the year which was new and worked??

Yeah I believe so. Also the national team coaches are in regular contact with the franchises throughout the season. I don't know what it's like in Ireland.

A possible idea would be all coaching staff including underage and development coaches from the provinces and the national set up, getting together to discuss training methods and identify weaknesses. They could look at transfers of players as well.

The Inbetween is mine

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Isn't there 2 Leinster players studying medicine at the moment.

Like where else can they do that in Ireland?

Google?

thomond2006

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Isn't there 2 Leinster players studying medicine at the moment.

Like where else can they do that in Ireland?

https://www.ul.ie/medicine/
https://www.ucc.ie/en/ck791/
https://www.qub.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate/medicine-mb-a100/
http://www.nuigalway.ie/medicine/#:~:text=The%20School%20of%20Medicine%20at,is%20renowned%20across%20the%20world.&text=Our%20School%20has%20been%20awarded%20the%20Athena%20Swan%20Bronze%20Award.

:pac:

sydthebeat

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Isn't there 2 Leinster players studying medicine at the moment.

Like where else can they do that in Ireland?

Career choices??

Everyone has to make them

If I wanted to study marine biology I know I'd have to be based in connacht, so why wouldn't I move to the connacht academy??

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

You're fierce angry.

In fairness, have you seen where Sheffield Wednesday are in the table?

Burkie1203

sydthebeat wrote: »

Career choices??

Everyone has to make them

If I wanted to study marine biology I know I'd have to be based in connacht, so why wouldn't I move to the connacht academy??

Career choices are made in school. Not when you get an academy place. Unless you can guarantee players a place it's very difficult to make work.

The Inbetween is mine

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Career choices are made in school. Not when you get an academy place. Unless you can guarantee players a place it's very difficult to make work.

Ultan Dillane says hi

sydthebeat

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Career choices are made in school. Not when you get an academy place. Unless you can guarantee players a place it's very difficult to make work.

Depends of you view your career choice as "rugby player" or "leinster rugby player"

For the record I think a national academy is a terrible idea.... But not because of an inability to move or preference of college course over pro sports.

I think it would be terrible because I think it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist.... And it offers other provinces a way out of working harder to grow and develop the sport in their catchment areas

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

Depends of you view your career choice as "rugby player" or "leinster rugby player"

For the record I think a national academy is a terrible idea.... But not because of an inability to move or preference of college course over pro sports.

I think it would be terrible because I think it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist.... And it offers other provinces a way out of working harder to grow and develop the sport in their catchment areas

Rather than a national academy, I think more co-ordination between academies and some sort of national oversight.

awec

sydthebeat wrote: »

Depends of you view your career choice as "rugby player" or "leinster rugby player"

For the record I think a national academy is a terrible idea.... But not because of an inability to move or preference of college course over pro sports.

I think it would be terrible because I think it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist.... And it offers other provinces a way out of working harder to grow and develop the sport in their catchment areas

The problem absolutely exists.

Podge_irl

If provinces want players to move between provinces then they should worry about themselves an attractive and welcoming destination.

All My Stars Aligned

Personally I follow my province first & the Irish team second (& don't get me started on the lions!). From a provincial view point I'd hate to see a draft system brought in. However from a national stand point in makes perfect sense. I do think we will start to see more movement of players between the provinces over the next few years as the financial impact of the last year is going to take a number of years to recover from.The IRFU/provinces will see the value in young players on smaller contracts over older players looking for bigger money.

Kirk Van Houten

If as is happening at the moment where only fringe or second choice players are moving between provinces it means that the strongest provinces, ie those with the bigger populations get to keep the best players and the gap remains.
It's the natural inequality of a capital city and population density. It's fairly obvious those supporters who don't want to admit to that advantage and why they don't.

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

The problem absolutely exists.

When I say "the problem doesn't really exist" I'm referring to the need for a national academy... Not the disparity in player development. I think the way the current system moves players on from (nearly always ) leinster to the other provinces is working well enough so as to provide the other provinces with better players than they can produce, plus clearing the pathways for the younger leinster guys to come through.

Also, as I've said, if a draft system from a combined national academy was in place... There is absolutely no requirement or advantage for the likes of ulster to pump time money and effort into growing their provincial produce.

Over time the provinces would simply become Leinster A B C and D

sydthebeat

Does Kilkenny have the biggest population in the country??

If not, why are they the most consistently successful hurling team.

When you realise why, you have to ask why that ethos isn't possible within the provinces who have smaller populations than leinster ??

When you realise it actually is possible... Well then you have to start asking why its not being done...

Former Former Former

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

If as is happening at the moment where only fringe or second choice players are moving between provinces it means that the strongest provinces, ie those with the bigger populations get to keep the best players and the gap remains.
It's the natural inequality of a capital city and population density. It's fairly obvious those supporters who don't want to admit to that advantage and why they don't.

I don't think anyone denies the advantage Leinster have.

The question is whether Munster should be doing better and what can be done about it.

Just saying "well we'll never have as many players as Leinster" is a total cop out.