Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

NewWay82

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

At 25?

Yes as Coombes matured at a very young age. He was that size when he was 17. He's probably at his peak right now if not in a years time. He was developed early and should have been used earlier in his career.

NewWay82

NewWay82 wrote: »

Yes as Coombes matured at a very young age. He was that size when he was 17. He's probably at his peak right now if not in a years time. He was developed early and should have been used earlier in his career.

How have you any idea about how coombes is or has developed as a rugby player?

The Inbetween is mine

NewWay82 wrote: »

Yes as Coombes matured at a very young age. He was that size when he was 17. He's probably at his peak right now if not in a years time. He was developed early and should have been used earlier in his career.

By that rationale, James Ryan should be getting his pension now..... absolute spoofer

theVersatile

It's like he looked at New Zealand wingers and went "yes everyone has a career like that where they peak at 22 and then fade off into obscurity".

Like, no.

Just no.

Richie_Rich89

It's an interesting point. I'd say NewWay82 could well be right. I wonder what the average age is for someone to perform their best at athletically. I wouldn't be surprised if most track and field athletes set their PBs by the age of 25. Bolt, for example, was around his 23rd birthday when he set the world records in the 100 and the 200.

Thomasirl123

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's an interesting point. I'd say NewWay82 could well be right. I wonder what the average age is for someone to perform their best at athletically. I wouldn't be surprised if most track and field athletes set their PBs by the age of 25. Bolt, for example, was around his 23rd birthday when he set the world records in the 100 and the 200.

Another example is power lifters peak in their mid 30s

The Inbetween is mine

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

Another example is power lifters peak in their mid 30s

Women peak sexually in their 40's....

Locke_Lamora

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's an interesting point. I'd say NewWay82 could well be right. I wonder what the average age is for someone to perform their best at athletically. I wouldn't be surprised if most track and field athletes set their PBs by the age of 25. Bolt, for example, was around his 23rd birthday when he set the world records in the 100 and the 200.

No I don't think it's a particularly well thought through point tbh. Sprinters peak earlier than most other sports, with the average age for personal bests still being around 25 PB's near 30 aren't uncommon. The likes of shot putt and javelin competitors, who still rely on their explosiveness, peak around 28. I'm watching Olympic weightlifters setting world records well into their 30's as well.

Simply being large at a young age won't determine them peaking sooner athletically. You brought up Usain Bolt who was famously huge at a young age but he continued to be dominant for a long time.

In any case, none of these sports are directly analogous, but if we look at the history of actual rugby players past the age of 25, I'd say Coombes will be fine providing he has the right attitude.

Thomasirl123

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

Women peak sexually in their 40's....

Wtf has this to do with anything?

Kirk Van Houten

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

Wtf has this to do with anything?

To be fair it's as relevant and makes as much sense in relation to the thread as a rugby player being physically on the wane at 25.

NewWay82

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

No I don't think it's a particularly well thought through point tbh. Sprinters peak earlier than most other sports, with the average age for personal bests still being around 25 PB's near 30 aren't uncommon. The likes of shot putt and javelin competitors, who still rely on their explosiveness, peak around 28. I'm watching Olympic weightlifters setting world records well into their 30's as well.

Simply being large at a young age won't determine them peaking sooner athletically. You brought up Usain Bolt who was famously huge at a young age but he continued to be dominant for a long time.

In any case, none of these sports are directly analogous, but if we look at the history of actual rugby players past the age of 25, I'd say Coombes will be fine providing he has the right attitude.

You have given fine examples there and this is to be commended. A fine point of view that you backed up with some research. Better than some others to just to throw insults and think they're superior than me because they share views on Boards. My argument has a few points.
1. I didn't say he would be finished as a rugby player when he gets to 25. With experience he will become a better rugby player for sure. My point is as he developed early as an adolescent & hit his Peak Height Velocity it is reasonable to argue that he will decline slightly earlier than someone who developed later. If ye don't believe me you can go do a Masters in Sports Science and get back to me.
2. Go back and look at Irish players before 25(ish) and after. Maybe use BOD, Earls, James Ryan and see have they gotten slower, less agile, less explosive strength.
3. My original point before this is that Munster are way too slow to promote youth. Yes they are promoting 9 from the academy but would that have happened without Covid?? Look at our bench on Saturday, no impact whatsoever.
4. Finally, no need for insults. I'm entitled to my opinion. Maybe ye should open your minds to the possibility that just because something sounds a bit different doesn't mean it's not true.

NewWay82

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

To be fair it's as relevant and makes as much sense in relation to the thread as a rugby player being physically on the wane at 25.

How do you know otherwise Kirk.. do you work in professional rugby?

NewWay82

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's an interesting point. I'd say NewWay82 could well be right. I wonder what the average age is for someone to perform their best at athletically. I wouldn't be surprised if most track and field athletes set their PBs by the age of 25. Bolt, for example, was around his 23rd birthday when he set the world records in the 100 and the 200.

thank you sir

Podge_irl

Would be difficult to compare James Ryan before and after 25 considering he is 24...

Also a bit pointless to compare a backrow to backs in terms of athletic peak. Regardless of this, maybe we shouldn't be basing any discussion on the assumption that Coombes won't make the Ireland team for 2/3 years as its not really based on anything. He a) might never make it and b)might make it far sooner.

Locke_Lamora

NewWay82 wrote: »

You have given fine examples there and this is to be commended. A fine point of view that you backed up with some research. Better than some others to just to throw insults and think they're superior than me because they share views on Boards. My argument has a few points.
1. I didn't say he would be finished as a rugby player when he gets to 25. With experience he will become a better rugby player for sure. My point is as he developed early as an adolescent & hit his Peak Height Velocity it is reasonable to argue that he will decline slightly earlier than someone who developed later. If ye don't believe me you can go do a Masters in Sports Science and get back to me.
2. Go back and look at Irish players before 25(ish) and after. Maybe use BOD, Earls, James Ryan and see have they gotten slower, less agile, less explosive strength.
3. My original point before this is that Munster are way too slow to promote youth. Yes they are promoting 9 from the academy but would that have happened without Covid?? Look at our bench on Saturday, no impact whatsoever.
4. Finally, no need for insults. I'm entitled to my opinion. Maybe ye should open your minds to the possibility that just because something sounds a bit different doesn't mean it's not true.

They may well decline in a pure speed sense, but I might also attribute that to gaining weight to excel in modern rugby - there's a trade off to be made there. But their strength and explosiveness in contact can still improve towards the age of 30, and there's nothing to suggest that Coombes will reach his peak earlier than most.

I do agree with your 3rd point generally, but I've thought Munster have improved in that respect, although I can't say with any confidence what part covid has played in that. From what I've heard Coombes wasn't the most well-rounded player when he was younger and his skills were lower than others, which might explain why they took their time with him. They were happy enough to play Hodnett early enough, and I though he would be someone that would struggle with adapting to the physicality of the senior game.

Edit: Apologies if I came across as insulting earlier.

NewWay82

Podge_irl wrote: »

Would be difficult to compare James Ryan before and after 25 considering he is 24...

Also a bit pointless to compare a backrow to backs in terms of athletic peak. Regardless of this, maybe we shouldn't be basing any discussion on the assumption that Coombes won't make the Ireland team for 2/3 years as its not really based on anything. He a) might never make it and b)might make it far sooner.

Fair point in both cases

CJ and Hollands post match interviews were a tough watch. Huge respect for both and harsh to see them bow out in empty stadiums.

CJ intimating he'll be back in Thomond to watch the team so hopefully both get a proper send off in due course.

Bazzo

Will neither be playing in the rainbow cup then?

Burkie1203

Bazzo wrote: »

Will neither be playing in the rainbow cup then?

If Stander has Lions ambitions I doubt he will sit it out. Otherwise its nearly 3 months without rugby.

Maybe with family back home, he might be heading off now?

Cookiemunster

Burkie1203 wrote: »

If Stander has Lions ambitions I doubt he will sit it out. Otherwise its nearly 3 months without rugby.

Maybe with family back home, he might be heading off now?

He said in his retirement statement that he's available until June and for any summer international fixtures, meaning he wants to make the Lions tour. I doubt another 3 months until his contract ends will make a huge difference when he going back permanently in the summer anyway.

thomond2006

The IRFU will want as many Lions as possible to receive the stipends that go with it.

The players who aren't in line for the Lions shouldn't feature in the RC IMO.

phog

My god some people like to be noticed.

Look Munster could be doing better in their development of home grown players and we've actually seen an improvement but trying to compare us to Leinster for a number of reasons is just not realistic, it's fantastic for the WUM and the keyboard warriors but that's about all it is.

From what I read of the Jenkins signing I'm happy we're signing him if it means we're closer to winning something.

irishbucsfan

Lions squad was announced mid-April in 2017. If its the same this time around, CJ will know if he's in the squad before the RC starts.

Buer

Due to be announced on May 6th and also will be one of the smallest squads in recent history. Reported that only 36 players will be named.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

Due to be announced on May 6th and also will be one of the smallest squads in recent history. Reported that only 36 players will be named.

In that case, it's only the Leinster game that will played beforehand.

Burkie1203

Cookiemunster wrote: »

He said in his retirement statement that he's available until June and for any summer international fixtures, meaning he wants to make the Lions tour. I doubt another 3 months until his contract ends will make a huge difference when he going back permanently in the summer anyway.

The Boks wanted Rainbow cup because of gametime prior to Lions. No way Stander is taking 3 months off before the Lions tour. I think he is likely to feature in most games for Munster coming up

Look at the England Saracens crew in 6n and how poor they were.

yerrahbah

No game for the next two weekends.

It wouldn't be the worst idea to schedule an "A" game vs Connacht in that time, get some game time into the fringe players

Squidgy Black

yerrahbah wrote: »

No game for the next two weekends.

It wouldn't be the worst idea to schedule an "A" game vs Connacht in that time, get some game time into the fringe players

Coming into final assignment/exam periods in the colleges, might be too late to schedule.

yerrahbah

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Coming into final assignment/exam periods in the colleges, might be too late to schedule.

Ya its just with a lot of fringe players they wouldn't have played since the 19th March, and assuming Munster go relatively full strength against Leinster then they wont play again until the 8th of May vs Ulster

I guess that's just the nature of this season.

FrannoFan

yerrahbah wrote: »

No game for the next two weekends.

It wouldn't be the worst idea to schedule an "A" game vs Connacht in that time, get some game time into the fringe players

I have a feeling the interpro rainbow cup games will be sort of A selection and then wheel out the big names for the SA fixtures