Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

sprucemoose

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Munster could probably do with an NIQ loosehead to be honest, with Killer's age and the fact he'll be in the Irish squad, you're down to Loughman and O'Connor as the other two more experienced looseheads while French and Wycherley develop, which isn't great.

id say Wycherley has shown enough so far to trust him to start during irish camps etc,. if kilcoyne was out for a european game we might be in a bit of trouble but otherwise its probably no harm to just let some of the younger players get consistent gametime

Jump_In_Jack

Esteban Teeny Corner wrote: »

James Cronin has announced hw is moving on from Munster this summer. No mention of where he is heading to.

Could be mistaken, but I have a suspicion that Sweetnam and Cronin both had a deal that because they represented Ireland they would get a bump in their contract.
It's possible that since they are no longer part of the Irish setup, they are basically overpriced compared to the other players within the squad as a result.
Munster would either have cut them or made a lower offer, but maybe they are not allowed by the IRFU to go below a certain threshold for an Irish capped player? Just makes me wonder about it.

thomond2006

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Munster could probably do with an NIQ loosehead to be honest, with Killer's age and the fact he'll be in the Irish squad, you're down to Loughman and O'Connor as the other two more experienced looseheads while French and Wycherley develop, which isn't great.

There's a more likely need for a NIE at hooker or TH. Kilcoyne is an international quality player and will hopefully maintain that standard for 2 seasons at least. Munster don't have that same level of player alongside him.

Squidgy Black

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could be mistaken, but I have a suspicion that Sweetnam and Cronin both had a deal that because they represented Ireland they would get a bump in their contract.
It's possible that since they are no longer part of the Irish setup, they are basically overpriced compared to the other players within the squad as a result.
Munster would either have cut them or made a lower offer, but maybe they are not allowed by the IRFU to go below a certain threshold for an Irish capped player? Just makes me wonder about it.

Sweetnam signed his last extension in 2018, which would've only been a few months after his Ireland caps in the autumn internationals, so it probably would've been a big bump from his last contract but since he's been out of the running since then I'd say his value would have dropped a fair amount and could've just been the two sides way off in valuation.

Cronin on the other hand hasn't had a cap in 5 years so would say it's probably a different scenario there in terms of his age and just the budget overall

Cookiemunster

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Could be mistaken, but I have a suspicion that Sweetnam and Cronin both had a deal that because they represented Ireland they would get a bump in their contract.
It's possible that since they are no longer part of the Irish setup, they are basically overpriced compared to the other players within the squad as a result.
Munster would either have cut them or made a lower offer, but maybe they are not allowed by the IRFU to go below a certain threshold for an Irish capped player? Just makes me wonder about it.

They (along with JJ and most likely Marshall) were the unlucky ones who were out of contract during the pandemic. The contract renewals were always going to go to the internationals and younger players. There is a limited budget and players who weren't going to 'push on' to any higher a level were always the ones in danger.
In non Covid times I'd have expected them all to be offered contracts.

Cookiemunster

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Sweetnam signed his last extension in 2018, which would've only been a few months after his Ireland caps in the autumn internationals, so it probably would've been a big bump from his last contract but since he's been out of the running since then I'd say his value would have dropped a fair amount and could've just been the two sides way off in valuation.

Cronin on the other hand hasn't had a cap in 5 years so would say it's probably a different scenario there in terms of his age and just the budget overall

Sweetnam wasn't offered a contract. That was confirmed when it was announced he was leaving. JJ wasn't offered a contract either.

yerrahbah

Shame, as he was having one of his best if not his best season for Munster.

He was a genuine jackal threat also.

As was already mentioned he was unlucky that his contract was up this year.

It could have been easily Loughman or O'Connor who was leaving.

With Wycherley and French getting contracts that brought us to 6 senior LHs in the squad and then it was always unlikely that he would be retained.

I cant see us signing anyone ahead of next season, so we will need one of the LHs other than Killer to push on and become a European standard LH rather than a decent Pro14/16 LH.

As an aside Tommy O'Donnell was offered a contract but turned it down

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-40284302.html

FrannoFan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Sweetnam wasn't offered a contract. That was confirmed when it was announced he was leaving. JJ wasn't offered a contract either.

JJ was offered a 50k pay cut.
Claremont looked very generous by comparison no doubt.

sprucemoose

FrannoFan wrote: »

JJ was offered a 50k pay cut.
Claremont looked very generous by comparison no doubt.

it probably works out best for everyone:
carbery is (undeservedly imo but thats a different story) a definite starter for big games when fit.
he was unlikely to break into the irish squad due to not being the youngest
he was still probably going to play a decent amount but was always most likely going to be seen as a stop gap
healy and crowley were probably going to start eating into his gametime all the same

shame as he could have been the long term ROG replacement if he had built on what he had shown underage and in his early career. as harsh as it is i do think foley stunted his development by persisting with keatley (much as he improved towards the end of his munster career)

Kirk Van Houten

Munster did look to sign a NIQ hooker but were told no by the IRFU.

thomond2006

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/20/nine-academy-players-promoted-to-senior-squad/

9 promoted players in one off-season is pretty remarkable.

Sabre0001

Bit of a backlog at OH/FB again all of a sudden. Looking forward to seeing more of the nine players in the coming years.

Squidgy Black

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/20/nine-academy-players-promoted-to-senior-squad/

9 promoted players in one off-season is pretty remarkable.

Plenty of one year deals is interesting enough. Gives a few lads plenty to play for next season

yerrahbah

https://twitter.com/rugby_ap/status/1395627364940500993

Pretty busy Springbok schedule in the Autumn

Looks like we will be without DDA, Snyman and possibly even Jenkins for the start of the season

thomond2006

IIRC the Pro16 will start in October.
If Europe's pool stages continue in a trimmed down format then I assume those games will be played in December and January.

yerrahbah

Ah fair enough,

Still a long season for someone like DDA

Being without the Irish internationals and our Springboks for a few weekends in November will give the younger lads a great chance to impress

Shaka Hislop

Ex Munster winger Gerhard Van den Heever who was actually IQ before he left, is looking to be capped against Ireland this summer
He's now qualified for Japan and has been named in the squad for the summer games

PTH2009

Let's hope that Connacht loss doesn't come back go haunt is

Am I right in thinking we can't afford any more defeats if we want to get that north vs South final place

thomond2006

Unavailable: Thomas Ahern (illness), Chris Farrell (groin), Conor Murray (leg), Roman Salanoa (ankle), Neil Cronin (knee), RG Snyman (knee).

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2021/05/25/squad-update-pre-cardiff-blues-2/

Sabre0001

Salanoa and Ahern just don't seem to have any luck. Really disappointing, would have been good to see them in action!

Shaka Hislop

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Salanoa and Ahern just don't seem to have any luck. Really disappointing, would have been good to see them in action!

It's to be expected with Ahern, he's still filling out, and will take another few years to do so...in the meantime, ankle and knee injuries will happen frequently enough.
I expect him to be used sparingly next season, and for the following season to be a starter

phog

The officials for our game v Cardiff on Friday evening are

Referee: Mike Adamson (SRU, 53rd competition game)

Assistant Referees: Rob O'Sullivan, Nigel Correll (both IRFU)

TMO: Olly Hodges (IRFU)

yerrahbah

I'd hope the likes of J.Wycherley, Knox, O'Sullivan, Crowley and L.Coombes are in the 23 this weekend.

The Blues are quite good at the breakdown, so maybe starting Cloete would help protect our ball.

Rigor Mortis

PTH2009 wrote: »

Let's hope that Connacht loss doesn't come back go haunt is

Am I right in thinking we can't afford any more defeats if we want to get that north vs South final place

Arguably you cant afford to drop any points let alone any defeats. A defeat would definitely be fatal

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1397503685882679297?s=19

Former Former Former

Amend the rules, make it less attractive for guys to stay in Ireland, thus defeating the point of the scheme in the first place.

Sounds like a plan.

Sabre0001

He said he could play on for a few more years. That's better than him running himself into the ground and ending up like Dylan Hartley (or others) who seems to be half crippled. Don't see why ROC is making the tax incentive an issue (has he previously had issues with project players, for example, I haven't read much because of the paywalls).

Same site years ago (from Googling tax Ireland rugby) had a story about how this helped keep some of Ireland's biggest stars playing here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tax-breaks-helped-to-keep-our-biggest-stars-at-home-29297107.html

Sabre0001

Team's out! https://www.munsterrugby.ie/preview/team-named-munster-side-to-face-cardiff-blues-4/?fbclid=IwAR3376ztYyhnaFblum7u9y1hxvllDLLkcp6QyHWtAoZcGNVJ8xEWgMf30Ow#preview

Looking like we want to be out of sight early and make up for last game and then let some of the younger lads (and POM ) have a go


Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Damian de Allende, Rory Scannell, Shane Daly; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; James Cronin, Niall Scannell, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Tommy O’Donnell, CJ Stander (C).

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, Gavin Coombes, Peter O’Mahony, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Jack O’Sullivan.

Squidgy Black

Sabre0001 wrote: »

He said he could play on for a few more years. That's better than him running himself into the ground and ending up like Dylan Hartley (or others) who seems to be half crippled. Don't see why ROC is making the tax incentive an issue (has he previously had issues with project players, for example, I haven't read much because of the paywalls).

Same site years ago (from Googling tax Ireland rugby) had a story about how this helped keep some of Ireland's biggest stars playing here: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tax-breaks-helped-to-keep-our-biggest-stars-at-home-29297107.html

If anything it probably goes against any project player arguments that they may have, players choosing to retire and finish their career in Ireland as opposed to if CJ had left Munster and gone to played for the Bulls there would've been a section of people saying that he's showing no loyalty and was here only for the money etc.

phog

Seems to be a change in the ref for tomorrow's game

Simon Thomas @simonrug

It appears that the IRFU's Andrew Brace will be the referee for Munster v Cardiff Blues at Thomond Park tomorrow night, not Scotland's Mike Adamson as was originally listed.