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Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading
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So where to from here....? Apologies for long and/or rambly and for writing from impressions rather than stats
Young Guns
Coombes has had a stellar year and proves that if you are a top class talent you will get your shot (despite what some will say about not giving youth a chance). It helps that we haven't really settled on a standout 7 so it was easier to accommodate himself and CJ with POM slotting in at 7 than it might have been other years with established players.
Good to see Wycherley get the Irish call up. Hopefully he matches his game vs Leinster where he got into a scrap with Sexton consistently. Poor JOD always seems to be a squad/bench option - I really like his work rate and he's been good for disrupting mauls.
Would have liked to see some more mixing it up of the front row. Salanoa unfortunately injured any time he was set to get a go and J. Wycherley went well against Clermont but then also picked up injuries. There was a dip against Zebre when front row was replaced though - you have to be proving that you're just as good if not better (as Coombes did), but then again you can get better with this game day experience...
Healy had a mixed year - obviously kicked some cracking penalties and has a big boot on him. But yet to grab a game by the scruff of the neck and sometimes gets caught in two minds in attack. Going to be competitive at 10 in next few years (hopefully). Flannery looked decent against Zebre at times and had some nice little offloads or subtle passes. And Crowley in the mix too; the fact that La Rochelle were interested in him is promising, but hopefully he can fulfil that promise for us.
Casey usually excellent and brings a real zip to the game. A great find and like Coombes his rise has been both quick and impressive because he's a hard one to overlook. Thankful that Leinster lit a fire under Munster to offer him a contract (and that he stayed!). He'll put plenty of pressure on Murray to keep his standards high and will hopefully be in the mix for starting games where his skillset may be better suited.
Shame that the likes of Hodnett, O'Sullivan and Ahern picked up injuries, but looking forward to seeing some more of them. Daly has looked handy - the timing of ANC and Irish call up prevented him from getting a good run of time with Munster but hopefully exposure to national camp stands to him.
Injuries
All teams pick up injuries, but it's galling when we recognise that there are certain key positions where we need to shore up and then those players get injured! 7 minutes of Snyman! Need to wrap him in bubble wrap (and hope he doesn't choke on it or trip getting out of it)...Good to see Carbery back - glimpses of what he can do in broken field, but his kicking has been on point. Feel for Gallagher though - he was hitting a good run of form and was being given a chance at the 15 jersey when he got injured. Hasn't looked quite up to pace since coming back (though I'm not sure of what his top speed is like), but hopefully rest and pre-season will see him right.
Style
We played some nice rugby over the year. Some games in the Rainbow Cup had a nice blend of brute force, offloading rugby, and even a strike move or two. We also scored a cracking try against Clermont (at 1:27 below) and won try of the season vs Cardiff where everything just went right. But at the same time, as Bowe also alluded to in the game against Zebre, it's been rare to see Conway (or our back 3) get the ball at pace and with some open field in front of them.
There were quite a few games where our opponents were definitely playing the nicer rugby. In RC, Connacht, Zebre, and Cardiff all caused us difficulty at times with running lines, pullback passes, and pace of getting ball from ruck. Would like to see us implement some more of that, especially when we are getting the platform from forwards making ground.
The forward brute-force style worked...until it didn't. But this will be true for any team really. Leinster have equally been criticised (a bit overboard) for their losses to Saracens and La Rochelle. It's the forwards who also give your backline the platform to work from. Hard to win when your pack is beaten and this has always been true. Isn't the age old saying that forwards win the game and backs determine by how much?
It is, however, a shame that we did good work at times and then our lineout malfunctioned. Seemed to happen quite a bit this season, which is particularly disappointing because our maul looked good for the most part. Have we settled on a hooker? Scannell gets picked for the bigger games, but I've liked O'Byrne's general game - his darts tend to let him down in the very same games that Scannell is a bit off unfortunately.
It's interesting that against Clermont we reverted to keeping the scoreboard ticking over even though we were well behind. It might have been a strange call at the time and most teams, ourselves included, would have gone to the corner in an effort to bridge that gap faster. Then in other tighter games we'd go to the corner, only for something to go wrong.
Discipline
Again, writing from impressions rather than stats but the discipline was infuriating at times. Maybe it just seems like we gave a lot away because we frequently let teams off the hook when we were in their 22. We weren't clinical enough at times with knock-ons, turnovers, penalties, or lineouts gone astray in good attacking positions. Compare that to a team like Leinster where you typically feel that a score is inevitable when they're in the 22.
Transfers
Zebo could be good. However, the issue in the back 3 (to my untrained eye) isn't the personnel but getting them the ball in a position where they can do something. Haley had a great season - seems to have worked on the high ball after Saracens went after him that way and less likely to follow up something good with an error. Zebo does go looking for work though and has some spark to him. And if we do throw the ball around more next year, he'll be good for that offloading and freer game.
Cronin had a really good season, his customary silly penalty or two aside, but it's messy now if we might/might not sign him. It's a weird one. You'd have to feel disappointed though if you were thinking that you'd step into the breach to replace him only for a potential U-turn to occur.
At the same time, I'm sure many of us would have liked to see a front row signing. We know what the current crop can do, but you need top drawer players. They give you a platform and can win you penalties, and if they're a monster in the loose too even better. Only a little jealous of Leinster having two Lions at TH
The Coaching Ticket
This will likely be the big talking point over the next year. On the one hand, they can only work with what they have (or make shrewd signings). On the other, on paper we have a pretty good backline and have had the upper hand on quite a few teams up front. The skill sets of players in terms of handling has certainly stepped up - have seen a bit more 7s style play in recent weeks. Have to get the brute-force and finesse working in tandem (and in the important games rather than reverting to conservative stuff).
Unlikely that JVG will be kept on? We've gotten to a point but hard to see how we push on from there. Impossible to know what's going on in the background and how much discussion there is about style, approach to games, etc. Why have we occasionally broken out a set piece move but not done it consistently, for example? Who calls that and who is pushing for a more KBA approach?
ROG has signed on for La Rochelle so that puts that rumour safely to rest. Larkham contracted until 2023 with Rowntree and JVG out of contract in June 2022. So who would we like and who will be available? At least we managed to get a little consistency in coaching ticket after so much disruption since Rob Penny / Anthony Foley's stints!
Expectations
It is incredibly disappointing how the RC worked out in the end. Similar to the Pro12 final years ago vs Scarlets - it's rare that Leinster are out of the picture, which presents us with a golden opportunity to win some silverware (although nothing can be taken for granted). We didn't have to alter the game plan vs Connacht drastically, other teams had been scoring from mauls. It's probably more disappointing for me that the tries they scored were freak occurrences than being rewarded for some of the silky rugby that they were getting great returns from. Trophies are hard to come by with Leinster being the force that they are and Europe being as tough as it rightfully should be.
Hard to know what our level of expectation should be. We've gotten to some SFs in Europe in recent years one way or the other (sometimes completely unexpectantly). And it's clear from domestic derbies, particularly at the business end of the season, that we're not at the level of Leinster (although it's hard to be ashamed of that when they're one of the top teams in Europe/the world and have an incredible schools system that seems to pump out players ready for top level).
At the same time, we always hope/expect the best and there's nothing wrong with that (even though it's the hope that often gets you!). It's tough to look good for such a long season, but come a cropper right at the end.
TL:DR - should have written a blog!🤪
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Would agree about that. JOD is a very good player but just wont get enough big games in his preferred positions of 6/8 and isnt good enough as a7.So where to from here....? Apologies for long and/or rambly and for writing from impressions rather than stats
Young Guns
Coombes has had a stellar year and proves that if you are a top class talent you will get your shot (despite what some will say about not giving youth a chance). It helps that we haven't really settled on a standout 7 so it was easier to accommodate himself and CJ with POM slotting in at 7 than it might have been other years with established players.
Good to see Wycherley get the Irish call up. Hopefully he matches his game vs Leinster where he got into a scrap with Sexton consistently. Poor JOD always seems to be a squad/bench option - I really like his work rate and he's been good for disrupting mauls.
JOD is a real good player. Been bigging him up here for years.... but just isnt probably good enough or done enough to be a top level player
Yeah its a big question mark that i wish Van Grann, Rowntree had done more to give some of the younger props more game timeWould have liked to see some more mixing it up of the front row. Salanoa unfortunately injured any time he was set to get a go and J. Wycherley went well against Clermont but then also picked up injuries. There was a dip against Zebre when front row was replaced though - you have to be proving that you're just as good if not better (as Coombes did), but then again you can get better with this game day experience...
Healy had a mixed year - obviously kicked some cracking penalties and has a big boot on him. But yet to grab a game by the scruff of the neck and sometimes gets caught in two minds in attack. Going to be competitive at 10 in next few years (hopefully). Flannery looked decent against Zebre at times and had some nice little offloads or subtle passes. And Crowley in the mix too; the fact that La Rochelle were interested in him is promising, but hopefully he can fulfil that promise for us.
On Ben. Kicking is the easy thing for him but his footwork, tackling wasnt good enough and i wouldnt worry about him not yet having grabbed a game by scruff of the neck.
Ideally Flannery or Crowley will be played/tried more as a 12/15 than 10 as with Ben as an out and out 10 it would allow 2/3 on the pitch at a time...
We dont have a pack that will beat the biggest of teams using a brute force style so we shouldnt really be relying on that in other games.The forward brute-force style worked...until it didn't. But this will be true for any team really. Leinster have equally been criticised (a bit overboard) for their losses to Saracens and La Rochelle. It's the forwards who also give your backline the platform to work from. Hard to win when your pack is beaten and this has always been true. Isn't the age old saying that forwards win the game and backs determine by how much?
Criticism of Leinster was a bit overboard but then again plenty of the praise they get is overboard as well.It is, however, a shame that we did good work at times and then our lineout malfunctioned. Seemed to happen quite a bit this season, which is particularly disappointing because our maul looked good for the most part. Have we settled on a hooker? Scannell gets picked for the bigger games, but I've liked O'Byrne's general game - his darts tend to let him down in the very same games that Scannell is a bit off unfortunately.
It's interesting that against Clermont we reverted to keeping the scoreboard ticking over even though we were well behind. It might have been a strange call at the time and most teams, ourselves included, would have gone to the corner in an effort to bridge that gap faster. Then in other tighter games we'd go to the corner, only for something to go wrong.
Not sure why Scannell is preferred but for me he might be better in scrum but overall id see KOB as a better player. his ball carrying, general game is better
Do we need to settle on a hooker anyway. Should be more horses for courses especially as both players do have such different strengths..The Coaching Ticket
This will likely be the big talking point over the next year. On the one hand, they can only work with what they have (or make shrewd signings). On the other, on paper we have a pretty good backline and have had the upper hand on quite a few teams up front. The skill sets of players in terms of handling has certainly stepped up - have seen a bit more 7s style play in recent weeks. Have to get the brute-force and finesse working in tandem (and in the important games rather than reverting to conservative stuff).
Unlikely that JVG will be kept on? We've gotten to a point but hard to see how we push on from there. Impossible to know what's going on in the background and how much discussion there is about style, approach to games, etc. Why have we occasionally broken out a set piece move but not done it consistently, for example? Who calls that and who is pushing for a more KBA approach?
ROG has signed on for La Rochelle so that puts that rumour safely to rest. Larkham contracted until 2023 with Rowntree and JVG out of contract in June 2022. So who would we like and who will be available? At least we managed to get a little consistency in coaching ticket after so much disruption since Rob Penny / Anthony Foley's stints!
If we dont get a final/win a trophy you would expect Van Grann to go. As that seems to be the limit of ability right now. I wouldnt call the play in recent weeks 7s style its just a bit more fluid and better coached/influence of Larkham showing
I wouldnt be holding my breath on O Gara coming back to Munster any time soon. He's still a very young coach and i assume he's thinking he may end up as Munster coach in time and he wont want to do it too early in his career.0 -
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