Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

thomond2006

I'd expect that maybe of one of DDA, Snyman and Jenkins will be retained beyond next season. If DDA goes then Munster are going to have a big hole to fill in the midfield but I'd also expect them to go shopping for the front row. What front row position will depend on how Wycherley, French, Barron, Salanoa and Knox develop.

arsebiscuits1

Former Former Former wrote: »

33 and 37 respectively. The massive difference is that they had been internationals for 10 and 14 years at the time, with 70 and 120 test caps.



It's not nonsense. If the young guys come through, great, but Scannell and KOB are not of the required quality, and Marshall certainly wasn't either.

Some sense being spoken here FFF!

Need to be thinking bigger.

I consider Leinster to have a problem at hooker too with Kelleher being Lions quality, Cronin being on the verge of retirement, Sheehan still being an unknown quantity at the higher levels and Tracy a solid performer but similar to Scannell in that he's unlikely to hit further highs.

The academy has some talent but not much of significant hype.

This is the standard I feel the provinces should be looking at

TRC10

Is there anything to be said for trying Gavin Coombes at hooker?

thomond2006

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

develop into what? an uncapped 30 year old hooker?

Well since I cannot predict the future, I must confess I don't know.

I'm sure you know though.

Poorside

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd expect that maybe of one of DDA, Snyman and Jenkins will be retained beyond next season. If DDA goes then Munster are going to have a big hole to fill in the midfield but I'd also expect them to go shopping for the front row. What front row position will depend on how Wycherley, French, Barron, Salanoa and Knox develop.

I believe we'll have a big hole to fill in midfield, and that's been known by the coaches since day 1.
RG, who knows? couldn't blame him for getting out of here with the luck he's had so far.

TRC10

TRC10 wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for trying Gavin Coombes at hooker?

I know your being facetious but the difference is coombs being 6 foot 4 vs kendellan being about 6 foot even which would be very short for an international class 8

Poorside

Poorside wrote: »

I believe we'll have a big hole to fill in midfield, and that's been known by the coaches since day 1.
RG, who knows? couldn't blame him for getting out of here with the luck he's had so far.

I'd wager Crowley's the heir apparent at 12.differwnt type of player obviously but I think he's gotten a lot of gametime at 12 for the As

Lsdrugbyfan

Carbery and Crowley at 10 and 12.. can't see that happening under JVG.

Lsdrugbyfan

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

Carbery and Crowley at 10 and 12.. can't see that happening under JVG.

Who says jvg will be there to do it

TRC10

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

I know your being facetious but the difference is coombs being 6 foot 4 vs kendellan being about 6 foot even which would be very short for an international class 8

Yes......I know

sprucemoose

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

Carbery and Crowley at 10 and 12.

crowley or healy at 10, carbery at 15 or back to leinster, now yer talkin

Shaka Hislop

Irish U-20's named Kendellen at 8...do the selectors not read this thread and know we need him at hooker?!

aloooof

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Some sense being spoken here FFF!

Need to be thinking bigger.

I consider Leinster to have a problem at hooker too with Kelleher being Lions quality, Cronin being on the verge of retirement, Sheehan still being an unknown quantity at the higher levels and Tracy a solid performer but similar to Scannell in that he's unlikely to hit further highs.

The academy has some talent but not much of significant hype.

This is the standard I feel the provinces should be looking at

I think Leinster’s phenomenal development of player’s over the last number of years is the exception rather than the rule, provincially, tho (for reasons we don’t need to get into).

The fact ye have a 23 year old training with the Lions and a 22 year old with loads of potential and you still see it as a problem position bears this out, imo.

Fielding a team with 15 internationals is a credit to Leinster, but it’s the exception rather than the rule.

It’s absolutely what the provinces should be (and are) aspiring towards, but by definition it’s not possible for all of them, and is, imo, an unrealistic expectation of squad depth.

I think the quality we have at hooker is decent. Not international standard maybe, but that’s a different discussion.

(Edit: just read back over that and don’t mean it to sound as snarky as it comes across, hope it’s not taken that way).

phog

Lads, lads, lads can you not spot it?

arsebiscuits1

aloooof wrote: »

I think Leinster’s phenomenal development of player’s over the last number of years is the exception rather than the rule, provincially, tho (for reasons we don’t need to get into).

The fact ye have a 23 year old training with the Lions and a 22 year old with loads of potential and you still see it as a problem position bears this out, imo.

Fielding a team with 15 internationals is a credit to Leinster, but it’s the exception rather than the rule.

It’s absolutely what the provinces should be (and are) aspiring towards, but by definition it’s not possible for all of them, and is, imo, an unrealistic expectation of squad depth.

I think the quality we have at hooker is decent. Not international standard maybe, but that’s a different discussion.

(Edit: just read back over that and don’t mean it to sound as snarky as it comes across, hope it’s not taken that way).

Not taken that way at all.

Perfectly reasonably response.

I'm more basing my expectation of quality of provincial players to be able to thrive at the top end of Europe. Munster and Leinster especially should be holding themselves to the standard of top 6 clubs in Europe season in, season out at a minimum. To do this, you need a starting squad of top class players with good depth to cover. Munster have this in places, but need better quality in others

TRC10

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

Irish U-20's named Kendellen at 8...do the selectors not read this thread and know we need him at hooker?!

Bloody Nucifora and his anti-Munster agenda.

Dubinusa

I think that hooker has been a problem for all the provinces. Just look at the world cup! But, Munster have solid if unspectacular hookers. Leinster have Kelleher, not the finished product yet, Sheehan, a possible international, Cronin, who will be gone next season and Treacy. Ulster have Herring and Andrew. Both are good hookers, but I don't think are top quality. Connacht have Tierney, Delahunt and Heffernan. Tierney being the one with the best prospects.
I don't think Munster are in a weaker position due to their hookers. If they signed Chat or Marx, they'd be rolling. But, I don't see that happening. Moving Kendellan would be nuts, imo. The lad is playing very well in the back row. Munster have probably provided the best back rowers to the u20's these past 3 seasons. JOS, Hodnett and now Kendellen. I think they're better than what Leinster have produced these past few seasons.
Maybe a signing from overseas will happen. But is there anyone available that jumps out? I think Scannell is a good enough player. He's an international and is not too far off Herring or Heffernan. O'Byrne is a good player also and Barron is just a prospect. I think Munster are fine at hooker.

Lsdrugbyfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think that hooker has been a problem for all the provinces. Just look at the world cup! But, Munster have solid if unspectacular hookers. Leinster have Kelleher, not the finished product yet, Sheehan, a possible international, Cronin, who will be gone next season and Treacy. Ulster have Herring and Andrew. Both are good hookers, but I don't think are top quality. Connacht have Tierney, Delahunt and Heffernan. Tierney being the one with the best prospects.
I don't think Munster are in a weaker position due to their hookers. If they signed Chat or Marx, they'd be rolling. But, I don't see that happening. Moving Kendellan would be nuts, imo. The lad is playing very well in the back row. Munster have probably provided the best back rowers to the u20's these past 3 seasons. JOS, Hodnett and now Kendellen. I think they're better than what Leinster have produced these past few seasons.
Maybe a signing from overseas will happen. But is there anyone available that jumps out? I think Scannell is a good enough player. He's an international and is not too far off Herring or Heffernan. O'Byrne is a good player also and Barron is just a prospect. I think Munster are fine at hooker.

Caelan Doris, Scott Penny and Alex Soroka disagree :rolleyes:

Sabre0001

Poor Dubinusa couldn't have said "I think" more frequently in their post and it's still being taken as an objective statement of fact

aloooof

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Not taken that way at all.

Perfectly reasonably response.

I'm more basing my expectation of quality of provincial players to be able to thrive at the top end of Europe. Munster and Leinster especially should be holding themselves to the standard of top 6 clubs in Europe season in, season out at a minimum. To do this, you need a starting squad of top class players with good depth to cover. Munster have this in places, but need better quality in others

I’d largely agree with this, but think other positions, even in the front row, are more a priority than hooker. (Thinking tight head specifically).

Niall Scannell was excellent against Toulouse, for example. His performance was above what I ever really expect from Archer or Ryan. Would love to see Knox and Salanoa getting more game time this season.

Dubinusa

Lads! I do think a lot! Over think!

arsebiscuits1

aloooof wrote: »

I’d largely agree with this, but think other positions, even in the front row, are more a priority than hooker. (Thinking tight head specifically).

Niall Scannell was excellent against Toulouse, for example. His performance was above what I ever really expect from Archer or Ryan. Would love to see Knox and Salanoa getting more game time this season.

Absolutely this.

These lads didn't seem able to buy minutes this season.

Salanoa just couldn't stay fit I guess but they've a combined total of 2 starts (both Knox) and 13 sub appearances for 326 minutes

Tom Clarkson by himself has 1 start and 8 sub appearances this season for 288 minutes.

I know there are varying factors at play here. It's just frustrating to see 2 bright young prospects being starved for game time.

Caranica

aloooof wrote: »

Niall Scannell was excellent against Toulouse, for example. His performance was above what I ever really expect from Archer or Ryan. Would love to see Knox and Salanoa getting more game time this season.

Rhys Marshall was phenomenal v Clermont and got injured at the wrong time. Feels like Scannell got more game time this season than he should have. Marshall was IQ so not an Ireland thing.

aloooof

Caranica wrote: »

Rhys Marshall was phenomenal v Clermont and got injured at the wrong time. Feels like Scannell got more game time this season than he should have. Marshall was IQ so not an Ireland thing.

I wonder if it’s possible it was horses for courses? Of all positions, I’d suggest for your first 3 choices, there was very little between Scannell, Marshall and O’Byrne, even if their skill sets were quite different. It was possibly the closest call for selection in the team all season?

Shaka Hislop

aloooof wrote: »

I wonder if it’s possible it was horses for courses? Of all positions, I’d suggest for your first 3 choices, there was very little between Scannell, Marshall and O’Byrne, even if their skill sets were quite different. It was possibly the closest call for selection in the team all season?

IMO
Marshall was the best hooker we had by a country mile .. He was signed during Rassie's stay .
He had amassed the same amount of Munster caps as Kevin O'Byrne, but in half the time....he got injured, it didn't clear up, he needed surgery...and his face just didn't seem to fit in VanGraan's plans after that.

Lost Ormond

James Cronin to move to Biarritz
https://www.the42.ie/james-cronin-biarritz-5478337-Jun2021/

budhabob

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

IMO
Marshall was the best hooker we had by a country mile .. He was signed during Rassie's stay .
He had amassed the same amount of Munster caps as Kevin O'Byrne, but in half the time....he got injured, it didn't clear up, he needed surgery...and his face just didn't seem to fit in VanGraan's plans after that.

I think KOB moved up the pecking order this season to our best hooker by a country mile.

Lost Ormond

Lost Ormond wrote: »

James Cronin to move to Biarritz
https://www.the42.ie/james-cronin-biarritz-5478337-Jun2021/

Worst places to live to be fair.i hope he does well over there man was huge for us the last few years.

What's the deal with sweetnam I thought he signed on with la Rochelle but i think someone said recently hes been released

Shaka Hislop

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Worst places to live to be fair.i hope he does well over there man was huge for us the last few years.

What's the deal with sweetnam I thought he signed on with la Rochelle but i think someone said recently hes been released

He's got a contract with Oyonnax D2

Cookiemunster

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

Worst places to live to be fair.i hope he does well over there man was huge for us the last few years.

What's the deal with sweetnam I thought he signed on with la Rochelle but i think someone said recently hes been released

He was only over there as a short term medical joker. He's signed permanently with Oyonnax.