Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835713#Comment_120835713

Its 4 weeks to the Leinster game, I could see the internationals "rested" for that game as an agreement with the IRFU to allow the players a proper down period after the world cup. If it wasn't an inter-provincial game, then I'd have expected then back that week.

Eod100

Great to have all the URC fixtures so early. That run of matches with Ulster, Stormers, Leinster and Glasgow week after week could be tough.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834742#Comment_120834742

Makes a change from the SA trips at the end of the season.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835496#Comment_120835496

Mod: Obliged. Threadbanned for 2 weeks.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120836125#Comment_120836125

Yeah, lucky for us it's only R14 & R15 this year. Inbetween the HC Last 16 and Q Final.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120836253#Comment_120836253

I wonder will we make it to the CC QF (or preferably further) this year. If we do, would we send an academy or U20s team down and effectively throw the games? It's a good time of year for any supporters that wanted a trip to SA and get some rugby in while there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835211#Comment_120835211

We have beaten both of those teams in competitive games in the last 12 months. If we can't beat them in a World Cup using a team loaded with Leinster players I would be surprised. I think Ireland's chances of getting out of the group are after getting much stronger with the recent retirement of the Scottish FB

If any of your listed Munster players actually gets given a chance I will eat my words

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835308#Comment_120835308

My guess is they will be allowed to return for the EPCR weekends over christmas and two other games, one before and one after. In 2019 I believe that is what happened with all players who were part of the WC squad and the 1st weekend after Christmas they all had to go to an IRFU training camp

easymoneysnipa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835026#Comment_120835026

Thanks for the feedback calling me a coward. Very brave on your part imo.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120837356#Comment_120837356

youre welcome, i dont hide behind a new account.

ulsteru20s

I definitely care more about how my province does than ireland. I doubt i would ever extend that to actively cheering against ireland. That seems extreme.

I can see why a subset or supporters in Munster could be losing interest in the national team. They have lost one good player and are probably losing another because of national selection. Even if that selection is justified, it still affected munster negatively. People aren’t (and can’t be expected to be) hyper rational in their fandom.

I’d say there is a clear line. Cheering for la rochelle against leinster is fine. People who think there should be some national unity that deep are saps. Actively cheering against your country is too far though. If you feel like that just follow preseason and stuff rather than the world cup.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120835072#Comment_120835072

stop making perfect sense, this place is just for hyperbole and nonsense!

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120837821#Comment_120837821

i would also think that part of the growing apathy is that in certain cases first choice munster players who are playing well (kleyn, hodnett etc),are being overlooked for second or third choice leinster players, which rightly or wrongly is giving the impression that leinster players are being favoured. the fact that despite being the only province with a trophy, the only bolter from munster in the current squad is nash, probably doesnt help this perception either. im sure supporters from other provinces have similar feelings but may have less of an argument without silverware.

on the flip side to this, it could be argued that players like earls and kilcoyne are very lucky to be involved

and having said that, kidney had a bias for munster players, at least at the start of his tenure anyway and you could argue munster werent as dominant a team then as leinster are now (even allowing for lack of trophies in the last two seasons)

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120836253#Comment_120836253

Ah....

easymoneysnipa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120837451#Comment_120837451

Thank you for using an old account to support someone calling people muppets. No new accounts allowed on boards if they don’t agree with the guy calling people muppets and his friend calling people cowards.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838356#Comment_120838356

Kidney started 5 Leinster players and 8 Munster players in the Grand Slam decider against Wales in 2009. Farrell started 1 Munster player and 12 Leinster players in the Grand Slam decider against England in 2023. Rightly or wrongly the reliance on one team is completely incomparable.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838356#Comment_120838356

i would also think that part of the growing apathy is that in certain cases first choice munster players who are playing well (kleyn, hodnett etc),are being overlooked for second or third choice leinster players, which rightly or wrongly is giving the impression that leinster players are being favoured

The major problem here is that it's a false impression based on incorrect information.

Hodnett was not overlooked for a second or third choice Leinster player. He was overlooked for Nick Timoney. That is irrefutable fact.

It is debatable who Kleyn was overlooked for, but all recent evidence suggests that McCarthy is ahead of Treadwell in the pecking order and thus the "last" spot was taken by Treadwell.

There was war here about Coombes being behind Conan in the 6N - except it turns out that it's Prendergast who's suiting up as 24th man, and Coombes had further to go than many thought.

You are absolutely correct that many people, if not turning their back on Ireland, are becoming more apathetic about it. If people don't think Munster players are getting a fair go, that's one thing, it's making the leap to "Leinster players being favoured" that is really destructive.

Edit: I'm not sure the 'silverware' argument holds much water either tbh. That's a function of the last two weeks of the season, whereas Ulster fans could legitimately say they finished second in the URC table, well ahead of Munster and that should be rewarded.

Neil3030

I know an English guy who supports Wales because he detests the "Bullingdon"-like culture in English rugby (union). He went to a private school and played while at Cambridge, so he is by no means the "grumpy outsider looking in", either. Sometimes a culture just doesn't click with people, for what ever reason, and you can't hold that against them.

leakyboots

Can only speak for Munster fans I know - but I do know several that are somewhat disconnected and some even disillusioned with Ireland. I don't think they would actively support another team against Ireland though.

Me personally, Munster definitely gets my blood boiling more than Ireland, but I support both.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841308#Comment_120841308

The major problem here is that it's a false impression based on incorrect information.

Hodnett was not overlooked for a second or third choice Leinster player. He was overlooked for Nick Timoney. That is irrefutable fact.

And Scott Penny, no?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841860#Comment_120841860

No.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841865#Comment_120841865

How so?

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841258#Comment_120841258

yes it doesnt compare directly, but kidney was picking guys like tony buckley, mick o driscoll, donncha ryan and even keith earls at the start, who werent first choice for munster at the time ahead of starters from other provinces. its not the exact same of course but its not exactly worlds apart either

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841308#Comment_120841308

i dont know what your definition of fact is, but scott penny was called into the irish squad ahead of hodnett. whether it was due to simply being nearer the squad already or whatever and not that it was of material difference anyway since neither was ever likely to be involved on matchday, this is what happened earlier this year

true that treadwell is probably the more likely player 'ahead' of kleyn, but both he and mccarthy are realistically 5/6th choice at this stage so it is unlikely to matter when it comes down to it

i sort of agree and disagree re coombes and prendergast. yes prendergast was 24th so he probably is ahead of coombes but i would think that is more down to covering more positions (much as coombes can technically cover the same positions, i dont think ireland see him as anything other than an 8)

as for your last point, yes fine but on the flip side you could say that when the real pressure was on, neither ulster nor leinster delivered and munster did. its all and well and good to do well in the 'league' part of the season but its about what happens in the last 2/3 weeks that matters. you could also argue that leinster could and really should have won the URC semi and the H Cup final, so you can frame things in lots of different ways but when it comes down to it the only province with silverware this year is munster

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842323#Comment_120842323

i dont know what your definition of fact is, but scott penny was called into the irish squad ahead of hodnett.

I guess my take is that yes, Penny was called in and Hodnett was not, but it absolutely wasn't the case that Penny was called in at the expense of Hodnett. It wasn't a marginal call and being from Leinster didn't swing it for Penny, because there was another (Ulster) guy between them in the pecking order.

I don't want to re-litigate the rights and wrongs of that call, I just want to highlight that it isn't as simple as "Munster guy losing out to fringe Leinster guy", and maybe hope that people will be less angry and disenchanted with the Ireland coaches if they appreciate that.

munsterfan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834970#Comment_120834970

It's a different kind of support for me, I support Ireland, want us to win, and while watching I can sit impartially and analyse what I think is going well / poorly. When it comes to Munster (home) it's an irrational support. I cant sit and analyse a game in progress as I'm too busy screaming at the players, ref, weather, ball etc :-)

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842607#Comment_120842607

that really doesnt make any sense

penny was called into the extended irish 6N

hodnett was not called into the irish squad

therefore penny was called into the squad ahead of hodnett (and any other options). whether timoney or anyone else was involved was irrelevant, as were the merits of the decision

its pretty simple to understand.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840976#Comment_120840976

I neither supported that post nor is the poster a friend of mine, so well done on being so wrong only five posts into your "new" account. Gives a great indication of what kind of a poster you'll be going forward. Good man....

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842707#Comment_120842707

I was just trying to make the point that thinking of it as "Munster guy lost out to Leinster guy and Ulster guy" rather than simply "Munster guy lost out to Leinster guy" might be less likely to trigger the sort of frustration with Ireland that you've highlighted.

phog

Rumour is that we're away to Exeter & Toulon and they're the middle two of the 4 games. So we'll start & finish the pool in Thomond Park

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120843365#Comment_120843365

right i actually see now what youre trying to say. i dont think its as relevant since timoney generally starts the big games for ulster but i can see where youre coming from

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841949#Comment_120841949

Has FFF not already Leinstersplained it to you?

No more questions

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120843844#Comment_120843844

Mod: Attack the post, not the poster.

Eod100

The Examiner has the fixtures here https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-41182306.html

phog

So the rumours were true. The two away games are in the middle and away to Exeter and Toulon which are probably the strongest of the teams to face away from home.

Our home games are a great time though

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844731#Comment_120844731

Exeter finished 7th and have lost most of the top players. Northampton are definitely the stronger of the two.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844767#Comment_120844767

You'd have to assume Munster would have preferred Toulon at home. Wonder how much weighting being a 1 seed gives their preferences.

The whole setup remains questionable.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844767#Comment_120844767

Perhaps and as I typed my post I did consider it but also (and maybe this is sentimental as I like the fans and the ground) but I think it's more difficult to beat them in Sandy Park.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844777#Comment_120844777

Yeah, I'd agree there. The whole making everyone else unseeded made the top seeding pointless really.

phog

Irish and Munster fixtures

Brief_Lives

good work

Red Silurian

All 5:30 Saturday kick-offs. Somebody must like us this year

easymoneysnipa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841308#Comment_120841308

it’s funny. I remember from 2018 to 2021 that last two weeks of the season were desperately important in the eyes of many when it came to having credentials to play international rugby. I can see why those people might have rounded out their views on that in the last two years though.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849041#Comment_120849041

You don't have to go back that far, as recently as the season that just ended, as we approached the knockout games for the URC a poster was saying the next few games could well see players playing themselves in/out of the national squad but then results went differently than that poster expected and the goalposts moved once again.

Akrasia

There were huge praise given to Hodnett and Haley in the final run up to the URC victory with loads of national and international press speculating that they at least had earned a chance to at least join the wider camp

Obviously Farrell had already made his mind up way before the end of the season and wasn't interested in rewarding form

With these 2 players being specialists that have no other specialist cover in the entire training camp. It made no sense to me

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849041#Comment_120849041

I can't speak to what other people may or may not have said going back five years, when a different coach was in charge of Ireland. It's the internet, pretty much every opinion possible will have been voiced by someone, somewhere at some time.

I do know what I said at the end of the 6N, which was that anyone who hadn't been involved up to then was very unlikely to make the RWC, and I was right. It doesn't fit with what we've seen from Farrell to date.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849078#Comment_120849078

Obviously Farrell had already made his mind up way before the end of the season and wasn't interested in rewarding form

Coach sticks with squad that were unbeaten all year shocker.

There will be significant turnover in the squad post the world cup I am sure and I think we will see Munster's uptick in form rewarded. But it just came too late in this cycle.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849267#Comment_120849267

Munster’s form fluctuated over the course of the season, but I think it’s fair to say a core number of players have played very well all season. Or certainly since the SA game.

I’d have the likes of Kleyn, Hodnett, Nash, Coombes, Haley all in that category.

It was more the likes of Killer, Scannell, Barron, Archer, Fekitoa and JOD whose form was up and down during the season.

phog

Munster confirm that they seeking approval to use PuC for the Clash of Champions

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1679777353184968704?t=6my_MU8egTtjN9nthKR46A&s=19

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849267#Comment_120849267

sticking with a successful squad makes sense of course

bringing two players who have consistently played very well all season (and for a few seasons now) into camp would also make sense, arguably more sense when it is a somewhat unlimited squad at the moment and when there is little to no proper cover in their positions in the squad currently

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844822#Comment_120844822

That Benetton fixture in round two could be a bit of a banana skin. They've recruited heavily this Summer, largely retained their previous personnel, and will likely have their Internationals all back from the RWC by then.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120844822#Comment_120844822

Two small errors there Phog. There's no team called Cell and we definitely aren't playing France in Wellington College ;-)