Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122882235#Comment_122882235

The academy have been training with the senior team at Munster for a few years now.

jim Dempsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122869594#Comment_122869594

Alex Codling is replacing him

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122882254#Comment_122882254

the "training with" isnt what I was referring to, i would expect most professional teams would have a decent element of the academy training with the seniors (heck even in my own junior club we have nights where our u18s train with our seniors). Its Lancasters specific trait to keep the academy intrinsically involved in the day to day preparation of the team.

in Munster, does the academy attend the seniors post game review? I dont know, but thats one example of lancasters focus on having the younger players involved with the senior ethos. When ciaran frawley was handed his first start for leinster in Dec 2019 Lancaster had been coaching him for over 3 years at that stage. His background and specialist coaching experience is in elite player development, which is why i think he'd be a fantastic signing for Munster.

50HX

Is the money there to get Lancaster?

Some coup if we got him

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122882870#Comment_122882870

He's employed by the IRFU, surely, they're not shopping in the bargain basement for a Head Coach

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122882870#Comment_122882870

It's such an important decision that I would hope that finances would not be a factor at this point.

50HX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122882891#Comment_122882891

I agree completely but I think what money is spent will get us a top level coach or a high profile NIQ/NIQ's...not both though

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122882907#Comment_122882907

We don't have any high profile NIQs and are unlikely to be getting any in the near future. At the end of the day it will be the IRFU coughing up for what ever coach Munster appoint. I wouldn't worry too much about the salary.

Cookiemunster

Alex Codling in as a forwards coach consultant on an interim basis.

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1861078654287061302

pickarooney

Stuart Lancaster about to fix Munster's centre woes with... Dan Lancaster

Podge_irl

Indo is saying the Lancaster rumour is wide of the mark for whatever that is worth.

Cookiemunster

Usual injury update from Munster 🤦‍♂️

The good:

Alex Nankivell, Shane Daly, Liam Coombes and Thaakir Abrahams are all back in training. Alex Kendellen is no longer with the Ireland squad.

The bad:

Diarmuid Kilgallen is unavailable after undergoing surgery on a wrist injury.

Jeremy Loughman has undergone surgery on his hip and will undergo a period of rehabilitation.

Seán O’Brien is unavailable due to a leg injury.

Oli Jager (neck) is increasing his training load but is unavailable this weekend.

Jean Kleyn will go for a scan on the neck injury.

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2024/11/26/squad-update-munster-prepare-for-lions-at-thomond/

Dubinusa

Jesus Loughman is fecked. What a **** time to be injured. Hadden to break into the team?

phog

Leamy extends his contract for another two years

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2024/11/26/coaching-news-denis-leamy-signs-two-year-extension/

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122886188#Comment_122886188

Hadden struggled against Leinster A.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122886370#Comment_122886370

Happy with that; the occasional game or so with a blip in defence, but has shown he can right that (particularly with players coming back).

With Prendergast I feel like we have quality coaches on both sides of the ball. If we can get the right man at the top, I think we'll be in a good spot going forward.

Cookiemunster

Prendys 2 year extension announced now.

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2024/11/26/coaching-team-news-mike-prendergast-signs-two-year-contract-extension/

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122887413#Comment_122887413

does that mean hes ruled out of being the next Head Coach?

Podge_irl

This seems like a mildly bizarre way to go about announcing the coaching team. If Prendergast is being made HC then why not announce it and if he isn't then why are they extending all the assistants before having a head coach in place.

Eod100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122887434#Comment_122887434

Would assume so

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122887542#Comment_122887542

why are they extending all the assistants before having a head coach in place.

possibly because they have the head coach locked in (but cannot announce) and these are the new head coaches wishes.

what doesnt make sense is:

1. if they dont have a head coach locked in, are they giving contracts to coaches who may be surplus to requirements?
2. if they are going to give the head coach role to Costello, why not just announce it?
3. if they were promoting Prendergast (or leamy) to HC, why wouldn't they announce it now?

budhabob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122887577#Comment_122887577

Apply this logic to any other industry / organisation. They have two talented coaches that the organisation are happy with their performance, their teams buy into their approach, and they want to retain. The New Head Coach will just have to accept it. Prendergast could still be in the running for Head Coach, but is also happy to stay on as attack coach if not successful.

Separately, Munster will be well aware of supporter / media criticism, and getting the Leamy / Prendergast news out ASAP will help allay some fears.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122890841#Comment_122890841

Well no, all you have to do is look at the recent managerial turnover at Manchester United to see a well liked and considered assistant coach given the door when the new coach comes on board with his own staff. The sports world is full of examples like this.

Look at the complete clear out of assistant coaches that England had before Eddie Jones took over. They got rid of Farrell, rowntree and catt. Jones came in with a completely new coaching staff.

If the Munster board are seriously taking the "these are your assistant coaches, like it or lump it" approach that you seem to suggest about, that will severely reduce the market they can aim for for new head coach. Most experienced head coaches will have their preferred assistants that will come in with them.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122890988#Comment_122890988

Preferred assistants, yes, but I think it's fair to say Leamy, and Prendergast in particular, are extremely well regarded coaches that many a head-coach would be happy to work with?

There's also the possibility that Munster have a headcoach lined up, and these extensions are done with their blessing.

Or, if they don't have a headcoach locked in, and they don't move on Prendergast and Leamy, they risk losing them too. I'm not sure that would be preferable either.

I think it's fair to say the vast majority of Munster fans are really pleased with both of these announcements.

CONSI

You would have to think that they have someone in mind of lined up and these appointments were discussed. I thought Leamy would be under pressure, our defence has been poor, we have a -30 points difference this season. shipping points for fun.

Cookiemunster

There's nothing at all unusual here. Rassie had Felix Jones and Jerry Flannery already in place when he arrived. Van Graan inherited them too.

Van Graan himself went to Bath and he only took JP Ferreira with him.

Who did Richie Murphy add to the Ulster coaching team?

Rugby isn't football and coaches regularly slot in to lead the coaching team already in place.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122890841#Comment_122890841

Separately, Munster will be well aware of supporter / media criticism, and getting the Leamy / Prendergast news out ASAP will help allay some fears.

I'd say this is a huge factor tbh. Steady the ship after the Rowntree and Kyriacou departures, get some good news out there.

If a new head coach comes in with his own guys, they just invent a new title for them.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122891068#Comment_122891068

These were my thoughts on this too. I'd say you could look at tons of clubs where a head coach changed and the club had assistant coaches in place on their arrival and the head coach worked with them.

Cookiemunster

The A team to play Ulster A tomorrow.

Munster A: Ben O’Connor; Liam Coombes, Gene O’Leary Kareem, Eoghan Smyth, Hubert Gilvarry; Dylan Hicks, Jack Oliver; Conor Bartley, Eoghan Clarke, Ronan Foxe; Conor Kennelly, Conor Ryan; Seán Edogbo, Jack Daly (C), Brian Gleeson.

Replacements: 16. Scott Buckley, 17. George Hadden, 18. Emmet Calvey, 19. Jack Kelleher, 20. Oisín Minogue, 21. Jake O’Riordan, 22. Tom Wood, 23. Oisín Pepper, 24. Harry Murphy, 25. Danny Sheahan.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897204#Comment_122897204

I forgot about this because of our game v The Lions and the game V Australia.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897204#Comment_122897204

Gordon Wood with the senior team?

Pete_Cavan

How many rugby coaches are following a Head Coach around Europe/the world from job to job? There are obviously cases of two guys who work together and are willing to relocate together (e.g. JvG and JPF) but I'd assume that's an exception. I'm sure they apply for roles as a package, can't have one without the other.

Trying to find a complete suite of new coaches for next season would be extremely difficult. If keeping proven quality coaches on staff means you miss out on control freaks like EJ, I wouldn't see that as a negative. Good coaches have to be able to adapt somewhat to each job/club, allowing them turn the place upside down trying to recreate conditions to suit themselves has a high probability of doing more harm than good.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122899374#Comment_122899374

Reasonable point.

But ..

If it's the Head Coach's job to decide how a team should play, then having to coach his assistant coachs in his method before he can get to coaching the playing group will take longer. Having assistant coachs who already coach to the Head Coach's methods is clearly an advantage. In some situations there will be a succesion plan in place, but this is not the case with Munster presently. The new Head Coach will need to make a immediate impression, working with an already embedded coaching ticket. This may make attracting candidates more difficult & will make 'hitting the ground running' extremely difficult for the new Head Coach.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122899828#Comment_122899828

You could also argue any Head Coach worth his salt should be able to adapt his game plan to the players available, and suggestions from the coaches.

I can’t imagine too many head coaches will rule themselves out because they don’t want Mike Prendergast as attack coach?

To me, the timing is the more difficult recruitment aspect, rather than anything to do with the coaches.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122899828#Comment_122899828

Surely implementing a pre-determined playing style is as much, if not more, dependant on players available, not just coaches. Maybe there are a handful of head coaches who can demand a club tailor their coaching and playing staff to suit their style but that doesn't work in Ireland where restrictions apply.

It would be a huge risk for Munster to sit on coach renewals on the basis that a head coach might want to bring their own coaches (plus there's the risk those coaches may not want to relocate to Ireland, even if their HC does). They could end up searching for an entirely new coaching team and still find themselves with a head coach who doesn't come with his own team.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122900126#Comment_122900126

I imagine there are potential head coaches who would want to be the attack coach themselves. Though that's not an insurmountable problem.

The timing still feels slightly odd to me though the point that they don't really have much choice is well taken.

phog

Team for tomorrow

Munster: Mike Haley; Shay McCarthy, Tom Farrell, Alex Nankivell, Thaakir Abrahams; Billy Burns, Ethan Coughlan; Dian Bleuler, Diarmuid Barron (C), John Ryan; Evan O’Connell, Fineen Wycherley; Jack O’Donoghue, Alex Kendellen, Gavin Coombes.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, Kieran Ryan, Stephen Archer, Ruadhán Quinn, John Hodnett, Paddy Patterson, Tony Butler, Shane Daly.

Red Silurian

Reminder - Tomorrow's game is not on terrestrial TV but is on TG4 PLAYER and Premier Sport

budhabob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122900639#Comment_122900639

any idea if it will be available to view afterwards?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122901124#Comment_122901124

Nope

Lost Ormond

As leading 38-14 half time.

Lost Ormond

YEllow gilvarry. Contact in air.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122900258#Comment_122900258

Implementing a playing style being dependent on the players currently available can be a risky strategy. Key players suffer long term injuries and that strategy collapses. And that approach is based on a 'more of the same please' brief to the incoming HC. All well & good when things are going well, but if results have been less than optimal then that strategy won't suffice either.

Any mid season appointment brings huge challenges.

Lost Ormond

Ulster try 9 gone 2nd half

phog

Munster win 50-33

Lost Ormond

Munster won but didn't think too much of their play. Munster battered Ulster up front

snotboogie

Munster looked good in the first half, second half was really messy. Lots of the promising generation who have and will stand out at 20’s over the last 4 years playing together so worth a watch back on Access Munster. Notably I thought the two second rows and winger who aren’t in the Munster squad or academy all did really well, not sure if they are older? Gleeson and L Coombes looked a class above when they chose to get involved, J Daly didn’t and was baited into giving a really stupid penalty away by Ulster. If O’Leary Kareem can play senior rugby at his size he’s the most exciting player in this years 20’s team, he looked tiny out there though. Sheehan was exceptional when he came on.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122902563#Comment_122902563

Is the winger you are referring to Hubert Gilvarry? He was born in 2001, was on the same Connacht age grade teams as the likes of Shane Jennings and Cathal Forde.

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122902902#Comment_122902902

yes

Ekano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122902563#Comment_122902563

You say O'Leary Kareem looked tiny. Can you elaborate a little? Is it bulk required or height? Can he defend? It looked like an exciting lineup and gives a little hope for the future.