Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Kirk Van Houten

Cookiemunster wrote: »

He's out of contract in June. He's leaving.

Strangely Donal Lenihan included him in a list of options Munster would have for next season.

sydthebeat

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Strangely Donal Lenihan included him in a list of options Munster would have for next season.

have you spotted the oxymoron yet??

Kirk Van Houten

sydthebeat wrote: »

have you spotted the oxymoron yet??

Could just be a mistake but Donal has much better access to information on players than anyone on here.

Cookiemunster

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Could just be a mistake but Donal has much better access to information on players than anyone on here.

Donal hasn't a clue. He is well outside the camp these days and it shows. I can't remember the last time he wrote or said anything positive about Munster. He seems hung up on the move to the HPC in Limerick.

Scottmactom

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Donal hasn't a clue. He is well outside the camp these days and it shows. I can't remember the last time he wrote or said anything positive about Munster. He seems hung up on the move to the HPC in Limerick.

you must have missed his article on munsters team for next season in the examiner.

Clegg

According to Murray Kinsella, you've poached Roman Salanoa from Leinster.

https://www.the42.ie/roman-salanoa-munster-leinster-5098109-May2020/

thomond2006

That's an interesting one. Ryan and Archer are in their 30s with two young prospects in Knox and Salanoa also in the squad. That all but confirms Parker and Scott's departure.

Normally an official confirmation from Munster follows these reports quickly.

yerrahbah

Furlong and Porter are still in their mid 20s and are Irelands starting and sub props.

Archer and Ryan are both >30 so probably only have a handful of seasons left.

I guess it makes sense that he would fancy his chances at getting more gametime at Munster.

jacothelad

sydthebeat wrote: »

have you spotted the oxymoron yet??

There is no 'oxy' about it....

Eod100

I'll be honest I don't know much about him but Leinster must have thought he was a serious prospect to offer him a trial in his first year of playing rugby.

Interesting that he's moving now when he's due to become eligible to play for Ireland. Wonder is he seen as prospect for Irish squad years down the line. At 22, still has a few years to progress.

Whether he does or not I think it never hurts having a player like that who is eligible to learn from senior players and has motivation to play as well as he can to potentially challenge for place in squad in few years if he's good enough.

thomond2006

Barring injury to others he's not going to be under massive pressure to play immediately.

bennyl10

Clegg wrote: »

According to Murray Kinsella, you've poached Roman Salanoa from Leinster.

https://www.the42.ie/roman-salanoa-munster-leinster-5098109-May2020/

Far from poaching when 1) he says no to connacht and 2) irfu asked

No one is forcing him to leave, an academy spot was on the table, he took it.

Leinster arent happy? It’s an issue with IRFU not Munster

Scottmactom

bennyl10 wrote: »

Far from poaching when 1) he says no to connacht and 2) irfu asked

No one is forcing him to leave, an academy spot was on the table, he took it.

Leinster arent happy? It’s an issue with IRFU not Munster

Of course it's poaching. :rolleyes:

its fair game but that's what it is.

Cookiemunster

Scottmactom wrote: »

Of course it's poaching. :rolleyes:

its fair game but that's what it is.

You need to look up the definition of poaching. His employer, the IRFU, wanted him to move. He didn't want to go to their first choice Connacht. He went to their second choice Munster. He still has the same employer.

Scottmactom

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You need to look up the definition of poaching. His employer, the IRFU, wanted him to move. He didn't want to go to their first choice Connacht. He went to their second choice Munster. He still has the same employer.

Ah yeah theres no competition between provinces and we all just play rugby for the fun of it, would explain a lot.

bennyl10

Scottmactom wrote: »

Of course it's poaching. :rolleyes:

its fair game but that's what it is.

It's not 'poaching' in the slightest.
Munster didn't approach him for one thing.

you can :rolleyes: all you want, it doesn't make it poaching.

This is a professional player, who the union obviously felt wasn't going to develop in Leicester so they offered him to other clubs, he refused the first option, he liked the option on the table from Munster.

Leinster were aware this was happening, they talked him out of a move to connacht, they were unable to dissuade him from coming south.

Not poaching, not in the slightest

thomond2006

If Leinster wanted to keep him, they would have made a contract offer he couldn't refuse and released other players to free up opportunities. A player isn't bound to anywhere once their contract is up and doesn't owe anything.

He's at best 5th choice at Leinster. They have two international tightheads in their prime. Anyone whining hasn't much to stand on.

salmocab

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Leinster wanted to keep him, they would have made a contract offer he couldn't refuse and released other players to free up opportunities. A player isn't bound to anywhere once their contract is up and doesn't owe anything.

He's at best 5th choice at Leinster. They have two international tightheads in their prime. Anyone whining hasn't much to stand on.

Not sure many are really whining, pretty sure Clegg was being tongue in cheek about it. Like you say he’s way down the TH list, Leinster are likely pissed as they put 3 years work into him with no payback.

thomond2006

salmocab wrote: »

Not sure many are really whining, pretty sure Clegg was being tongue in cheek about it. Like you say he’s way down the TH list, Leinster are likely pissed as they put 3 years work into him with no payback.

Yeah that's more directed towards social media I'm reading. Bad policy.

I don't really take the 3 years work with no payback point too seriously. A significant portion of players in the academy don't go on to senior deals. Since they're incomplete players/adults when signed it's always hit and miss.

Kirk Van Houten

salmocab wrote: »

Not sure many are really whining, pretty sure Clegg was being tongue in cheek about it. Like you say he’s way down the TH list, Leinster are likely pissed as they put 3 years work into him with no payback.

Leinster are pissed because it probably cost them money. This isn't the normal case of a schoolboy coming through the academy system and moving on.

This was a guy headhunted by Eddie O'Sullivan, brought to Ireland for a trial and then given a sub academy contract. It's expensive coming over from the States and I very much doubt he'd be able to live and train in Dublin on sub academy money.

Cookiemunster

Scottmactom wrote: »

Ah yeah theres no competition between provinces and we all just play rugby for the fun of it, would explain a lot.

As far as the IRFU is concerned the provinces are a means to populate the national team. That's their raison d'etre. If that means moving players around the provinces, then that's how they'll do it. Read any interview with Nucifora and he makes that very clear.

thomond2006

https://bullsrugby.co.za/devasting-ball-carrier-botha-returns-to-loftus/
https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/05/15/arno-botha-departing-for-blue-bulls/

Arno Botha to the Bulls confirmed.

thomond2006

Kevin O'Byrne 2022
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2021

Diarmuid Barron Year 2
Eoghan Clarke Year 2

James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2023
Liam O'Connor 2022
Jeremy Loughman 2022

James French Year 2
Josh Wycherley Year 2

Stephen Archer 2022
Keynan Knox 2022
Ciaran Parker 2020
John Ryan 2022
Brian Scott 2020

Tadhg Beirne 2022
Billy Holland 2021
Jean Kleyn 2022
Sean O'Connor 2020
Darren O'Shea 2020
RG Snyman 2022
Fineen Wycherley 2021

Thomas Ahern Year 2
Paddy Kelly Year 1
Eoin O'Connor Year 1

Gavin Coombes 2021
Chris Cloete 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2021
Peter O'Mahony 2021
Jack O'Sullivan 2023
Conor Oliver 2020
CJ Stander 2021

Jack Daly Year 2
John Hodnett Year 1

Craig Casey 2021
Neil Cronin 2021
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022

Jack Stafford Year 3

Tyler Bleyendaal 2021
Joey Carbery 2022
JJ Hanrahan 2021

Jake Flannery Year 1
Ben Healy Year 2

Sam Arnold 2020
Damian de Allende 2022
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2022
Alex McHenry 2021
Rory Scannell 2021

Sean French Year 2

Andrew Conway 2023
Liam Coombes 2021
Shane Daly 2021
Keith Earls 2021
Matt Gallagher 2022
Mike Haley 2021
Calvin Nash 2021
Darren Sweetnam 2021
Alex Wootton 2021

Alan Tynan Year 3
Jonathan Wren Year 2

Confirmed 2020/21 NIEs:
RG Snyman (capped), Damian de Allende (capped)

IN: RG Snyman (LK, Honda Heat), Damian de Allende (CT, Panasonic Wild Knights), Matt Gallagher (FB, Saracens)
OUT: Arno Botha (BR, Blue Bulls)

Out of Contract:
Ciaran Parker
Brian Scott
Sean O'Connor
Darren O'Shea
Conor Oliver
Jack Stafford
Sam Arnold
Alan Tynan

yerrahbah

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://bullsrugby.co.za/devasting-ball-carrier-botha-returns-to-loftus/
https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/05/15/arno-botha-departing-for-blue-bulls/

Arno Botha to the Bulls confirmed.

Just seen it on the twitter machine there.

He had a mixed first season

By I thought himself and Jack O'Donoghue were the two standout players this season.

Buer

yerrahbah wrote: »

Just seen it on the twitter machine there.

He had a mixed first season

By I thought himself and Jack O'Donoghue were the two standout players this season.

I thought he started really well and was probably Munster's best player in the first 1-2 months but his form and impact really fell away as the season wore on. The likes of JOD appear to be more capable of adjusting their game and bringing smarter play to their game whilst Botha is nullified more easily when the opposition take him on physically.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

I thought he started really well and was probably Munster's best player in the first 1-2 months but his form and impact really fell away as the season wore on. The likes of JOD appear to be more capable of adjusting their game and bringing smarter play to their game whilst Botha is nullified more easily when the opposition take him on physically.

The positive is Botha's departure doesn't really hurt us. Over his time at Munster Coombes and JOS have joined the senior squad and are ready to step up.

Scottmactom

Where are the Munster developed tighthead props?

Munster have had a some decent TH props come through their underage system but none have got academy offers:

Dylan Murphy(U23/Bantry Bay-Roscrea/Cork Con) - irish u18/u19, key member of best team in the AIL.
James Kendrick(U23/Rockwell/Cashel) - irish u18, played Munster A this season.
Peter Kelleher(/U23CBC Cork/Cork Con) - irish u18, recently returned to senior rugby usually as bench prop for Con.
Bryan O'Connor(U22/PBC Cork/UCC) - irish u18/u19, starting 3 for UCC.
Luke Masters(U21/CBC Cork/Cork) - irish u18/u19/20, joined Cork Con after being based in Limerick for a season due to sub-academy.

Look like they are trying to convert academy prop James French(U22/Bandon/UCC) from LH to TH.

Beyond that Mark Donnelly(CBC Cork) was starting TH for last seasons irish u18's, but given his size is more of a LH at pro level. And Darragh McSweeney(PBC Cork) was involved with irish u18 squads this season.

No TH props from Limerick spring to mind in the past few years.

Caranica

The current "state of play" video from Munster talks about low number of Limerick players. Apparently it's all about competition, players coming in from Waterford, Tipperary and West Cork.

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1261354407398014976?s=19

Scottmactom

Yeah so if West Cork, Tipp and Waterford weren't producing quality players, there'd be more not as talented Limerick players in the academy. Great!

Doesnt answer why isn't Limerick producing more quality players? especially forwards.

The Lost Sheep

Scottmactom wrote: »

Yeah so if West Cork, Tipp and Waterford weren't producing quality players, there'd be more not as talented Limerick players in the academy. Great!

Doesnt answer why isn't Limerick producing more quality players? especially forwards.

why do you think limerick isnt and what would you propose be done to help address it? Be it in clubs, schools and what provincial staff can do?