Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Tomtom364

yerrahbah wrote: »

If he can regain the form he had when he first joined Munster then he would be an incredible asset.

But IMO he hasn't reached played at that level in a while and he gives away too many penalties

From memory, I think most of the penalties he gives away are while trying to turn over the Ball.

Previous form I agree he hasn't been as effective as when he first played, but he was getting absolutely nuked whenever he went anywhere near a breakdown. Same as Beirne, they were identified for their turnover potential and whenever they even looked sideways at a ruck lads were diving in off their feet to secure it.

rayd3

Tomtom364 wrote: »

.....whenever they even looked sideways at a ruck lads were diving in off their feet to secure it.

Or torpedoing Cloete’s head and neck with minimal punishment in the Blue Shirts case.

With the two big centres, Stander, Kilcoyne and the big second rows Munster could probably get away with having O’Mahony and Cloete assuming Leinster a rolling out the likes of Toner and Van Der Flier.

ionadnapokot

Has anyone heard more on Joey Carbery (wrist/ankle) "continuing rehab"?

Scottmactom

It has been confirmed that Joey Carbery will not be available for an indefinite period of time.

Following his latest meeting with the specialist, the 24-year-old playmaker has been advised to take further steps in rehabilitating his ankle, and to delay his return to rugby.

Speaking about the latest update, Head Coach Johann van Graan said: “As disappointing as the latest news is, we have Joey at the centre of it all, going through this, and doing everything right in making sure that when he returns to the pitch he stays on the pitch.

“That’s what we all want at the end of this, and undoubtedly it has been a tough blow for him, but he has shown great resilience already and will do everything that’s asked of him for this next phase also.

“A serious injury like his can heal in different ways and now that we’re moving into the return to rugby stage the ankle isn’t where it should be in hitting those next markers.

“David (Nucifora), Andy (Farrell) and I spoke with Joey last week and all want what’s best for him. We know his standing in the province and Irish rugby and how important he is to us all. Our priority is to look after him. He is a young man with huge sporting talent and a bright future, we are here to support Joey at every stage giving him the time he needs.

“There is a lot of rugby to be played in the coming season and we look forward to welcoming Joey back when he is fully recovered.”

Joey Carbey added: “It’s an incredibly frustrating time at the moment, but I am making good progress over the last couple of weeks.

“Even though the ankle isn’t where it needs to be just yet, I’ve full confidence it will heal and be pain-free soon, and I will be back better than ever. I just need time right now.

“I’d like to say thank you to the IRFU and Munster for their continued support and for having my back throughout it all.

“I’d also like to thank my girlfriend Robyn and my family for always being there when I need them.

“Lastly, to the fans, I’m so excited to get back out in front of you guys. It’s going to be such an exciting season ahead and I cannot wait to see where we can go as a squad. Hopefully, we will all be back in Thomond Park soon together.”

We pretty much have to plan without him at this stage. I hope he can get right for the sake of his career but it does not seem likely at this point

Cookiemunster

Joe Schmidt and the IRFU medical department are completely to blame for this. He should not have been selected in the world cup squad when he wasn't fit to play. The arguments that he wanted to travel and play are BS. A player should not be making these decisions for himself.

thomond2006

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

We pretty much have to plan without him at this stage. I hope he can get right for the sake of his career but it does not seem likely at this point

This feels like Bleyendaal 2.0. His availability is a bonus rather than a given.

Bassfish

Andy Farrell and David Nucifora speaking to him about the latest developments can't be a good sign!

TomsOnTheRoof

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Joe Schmidt and the IRFU medical department are completely to blame for this. He should not have been selected in the world cup squad when he wasn't fit to play. The arguments that he wanted to travel and play are BS. A player should not be making these decisions for himself.

Agreed. So much for our vaunted player welfare system.

Former Former

I'm sure Carbery got the all clear before he was brought to the RWC. How often do you see a guy declaring himself raring to go only to break down again in short order? Happens all the time.

No point being salty about it. Without IRFU policy he'd never have put on a red jersey in the first place.

Edit : it also overlooks the fact that he turned out for Munster a couple of times since.

Shefwedfan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Joe Schmidt and the IRFU medical department are completely to blame for this. He should not have been selected in the world cup squad when he wasn't fit to play. The arguments that he wanted to travel and play are BS. A player should not be making these decisions for himself.

Yes because Joey never had injury issues prior to last year. Oh wait......

bennyl10

Former Former wrote: »

I'm sure Carbery got the all clear before he was brought to the RWC. How often do you see a guy declaring himself raring to go only to break down again in short order? Happens all the time.

No point being salty about it. Without IRFU policy he'd never have put on a red jersey in the first place.

He wasn't fit going to the world cup. Everyone knew this.

No-one is salty, but its clearly a f-up by the IRFU that the injury wasn't given time to rehab in order to get him to Japan and hope for the best

Cookiemunster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Joe Schmidt and the IRFU medical department are completely to blame for this. He should not have been selected in the world cup squad when he wasn't fit to play. The arguments that he wanted to travel and play are BS. A player should not be making these decisions for himself.

I don't feel like there is enough information in the public domain to start throwing blame around like that. I know plenty of people who will choose to compete through injury in the hope of it working out and plenty of those who do so worsen their injury as a result. I imagine Joey was well informed as to the nature and potential consequences of playing with his injury.

thomond2006 wrote: »

This feels like Bleyendaal 2.0. His availability is a bonus rather than a given.

It's not good news, but neck injuries can be incredibly consequential and are hard to treat. Not that the ankle is straight forward and Ferris lost his career to a persistent ankle issue, but I wouldn't put Joey in the same bracket as Bleyendaal just yet.

Bassfish wrote: »

Andy Farrell and David Nucifora speaking to him about the latest developments can't be a good sign!

Not necessarily. I think if it was a negative conversation then it wouldn't have been commented on. On the contrary I wouldn't be surprised if they were saying not to worry about his place with Munster / Ireland and to get 100% fit - even if a period on the sidelines is required. Reassurance like that from the top is going to be a strong motivator for someone who most likely is extremely frustrated.

I think Joey will be given plenty of time and support and I'd be hopeful he makes a full recovery and gets back on the pitch. Is this the same ankle he did against Fiji that time?

The larger issue here is that Munster are really in a bind at 10 now. I wouldn't be surprised if Frawley / Harry Byrne are under pressure to head south but I think a good experienced signing at ten should be the focus for Munster / IRFU.

Surely in the current climate there is a deal to be done somewhere? Give Farrell a year outside the championship maybe!

rayd3

Former Former wrote: »

No point being salty about it.

Former Former wrote: »

Without IRFU policy he'd never have put on a red jersey in the first place.

Big time self awareness going on here.

rayd3

rayd3 wrote: »

Big time self awareness going on here.

In what way?

FF is right - we've no idea if the IRFU medical team are culpable for Joey's ongoing injury woes but we do know that without the IRFU it's unlikely he would have joined Munster.

How is he lacking awareness?

sydthebeat

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Joe Schmidt and the IRFU medical department are completely to blame for this. He should not have been selected in the world cup squad when he wasn't fit to play. The arguments that he wanted to travel and play are BS. A player should not be making these decisions for himself.

erhh ????


carbery had 28 mins against Samoa and 17 mins against new zealand in a RWC quarter final

... so he was obviously fit enough to play

Burkie1203

sydthebeat wrote: »

erhh ????


carbery had 28 mins against Samoa and 17 mins against new zealand in a RWC quarter final

... so he was obviously fit enough to play

RWC was 11 months ago and players have just had effectively had 5 months off. Maybe it's Munster training which kills their 10s.

aloooof

Burkie1203 wrote: »

RWC was 11 months ago and players have just had effectively had 5 months off. Maybe it's Munster training which kills their 10s.

Was there any suggestion he was back training tho?

My understanding is that he injured his wrist against Ulster which required surgery, and it was decided that while he was out, he would also undergo surgery for the ankle injury that he got during the RWC. That's the injury that continues to keep him out.

thomond2006

If Covid-19 never happened I imagine Munster would be in the market for a signing. Initially we were supposed to have JJ, Bleyendaal and Carbery for this season and now we're down to JJ for the foreseeable.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Covid-19 never happened I imagine Munster would be in the market for a signing. Initially we were supposed to have JJ, Bleyendaal and Carbery for this season and now we're down to JJ for the foreseeable.

No reason to believe the younger guys can't fill in

thomond2006

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

No reason to believe the younger guys can't fill in

I hope you're right but we're an injury to JJ away from having two academy 10s in the 23.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Covid-19 never happened I imagine Munster would be in the market for a signing. Initially we were supposed to have JJ, Bleyendaal and Carbery for this season and now we're down to JJ for the foreseeable.

Or maybe they trust Healy etc.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

I hope you're right but we're an injury to JJ away from having two academy 10s in the 23.

If you keep signing guys they never get time I'd rather give them gametime and allow them to get used to senior level. Scannell can also be put at 10 as a more senior head. No reason to go out and sign someone Everytime something goes wrong

thomond2006

I completely forgot about Scannell! Scratch that then. We're not goosed just yet with Scannell as cover. He's going to be a vital player in the 23 with Goggin and Carbery out.

Shefwedfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

If Covid-19 never happened I imagine Munster would be in the market for a signing. Initially we were supposed to have JJ, Bleyendaal and Carbery for this season and now we're down to JJ for the foreseeable.

Yes, sure who cares about trying to promote younger player

thomond2006

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes, sure who cares about trying to promote younger player

I forgot that Scannell can and has covered 10. Next.

Richie_Rich89

Obviously I'm biased because I don't want Leinster to lose Frawley, but I think Munster should be okay with what they've got. Scannell could be available to cover 10 a bit more with de Allende's arrival - I'd say he'd be most people's pick at 22 atm - and Healy and Crowley look like good players (Flannery possibly more suited to 15?). They've got a specialist coach for the outhalves as well in Larkham.

TomsOnTheRoof

Some amount of nonsense going about on this thread. Carbery was not fit going into the RWC. This was well known at the time. Schmidt and the IRFU are responsible. They took him and played him when he was not fit to do so and it's not a jump by any means to deduce that this has exacerbated the injury.

rayd3

Where did the fantastically insightful “pathetic whinging” comment go? I was hoping to engage in discussion regarding your analysis ScottMacTominay.

Richie_Rich89

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Some amount of nonsense going about on this thread. Carbery was not fit going into the RWC. This was well known at the time. Schmidt and the IRFU are responsible. They took him and played him when he was not fit to do so and it's not a jump by any means to deduce that this has exacerbated the injury.

It's the World Cup. Richie McCaw played on one ankle.