Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

bennyl10

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

That's fairly uninspireing

Is it? Success with Wales, actual experience as an attacking coach.

Compared to our current attacking set up it’s an improvement

troyzer

bennyl10 wrote: »

Alistair Colossal Sonar wrote: »

That's fairly uninspireing

Is it? Success with Wales, actual experience as an attacking coach.

Compared to our current attacking set up it’s an improvement

Wales have never been known as a high octane attack. Howley and Gatland's greatest achievement is how simple their attack is to learn.

But it requires huge fitness and workrate and big carriers to suck in defenders and get around the corner.

This isn't radically different to what Munster are already trying to do.

Bazzo

troyzer wrote: »

Wales have never been known as a high octane attack. Howley and Gatland's greatest achievement is how simple their attack is to learn.

But it requires huge fitness and workrate and big carriers to suck in defenders and get around the corner.

This isn't radically different to what Munster are already trying to do.

The last time Munster tried something different with Penney it wasn't a good fit.

It'd be interesting to see how he goes. Welsh fans have often bemoaned their attack under Howley, and even this year it was absolutely their defence that won them the grand slam but in terms of success he has a good record. If Munster can win playing like Wales did this year I'm sure the fans won't care.

Kirk Van Houten

Bazzo wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Wales have never been known as a high octane attack. Howley and Gatland's greatest achievement is how simple their attack is to learn.

But it requires huge fitness and workrate and big carriers to suck in defenders and get around the corner.

This isn't radically different to what Munster are already trying to do.

The last time Munster tried something different with Penney it wasn't a good fit.

It'd be interesting to see how he goes. Welsh fans have often bemoaned their attack under Howley, and even this year it was absolutely their defence that won them the grand slam but in terms of success he has a good record. If Munster can win playing like Wales did this year I'm sure the fans won't care.

The Welsh fans bemoan fecking everything, winning six Nations and grand slams, club/provincial success etc. They always have something to main about no matter how good the situation is.

troyzer

Bazzo wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Wales have never been known as a high octane attack. Howley and Gatland's greatest achievement is how simple their attack is to learn.

But it requires huge fitness and workrate and big carriers to suck in defenders and get around the corner.

This isn't radically different to what Munster are already trying to do.

The last time Munster tried something different with Penney it wasn't a good fit.

It'd be interesting to see how he goes. Welsh fans have often bemoaned their attack under Howley, and even this year it was absolutely their defence that won them the grand slam but in terms of success he has a good record. If Munster can win playing like Wales did this year I'm sure the fans won't care.

Personally I think it's a case of winning despite him rather than because of him.

Wales had the joint fewest tries this year in the Six Nations.

thomond2006

We have lost the run of ourselves if we're not excited to bring in a coach with that CV. It doesn't guarantee success but it lessens the odds of the opposite. There's a level of familiarity too with some of the leaders in the team via the Lions.

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

The last time Munster tried something different with Penney it wasn't a good fit.

Munster might be in a far better spot today if there'd been less resistance to Penney trying to modernise the playing style. It wasn't a good fit because it wasn't perceived to be the 'Munster way' or whatever other slogan you like.

troyzer

thomond2006 wrote: »

We have lost the run of ourselves if we're not excited to bring in a coach with that CV. It doesn't guarantee success but it lessens the odds of the opposite. There's a level of familiarity too with some of the leaders in the team via the Lions.

What's the CV though? He's been the attack coach of a national side which was never the best and recently has been pretty mediocre.

It's not a bad appointment and will probably be an improvement. It's also a good sign that Munster can attract a coach like him.

It just feels too safe and lacking in ambition.

Kirk Van Houten

troyzer wrote: »

What's the CV though? He's been the attack coach of a national side which was never the best and recently has been pretty mediocre.

It's not a bad appointment and will probably be an improvement. It's also a good sign that Munster can attract a coach like him.

It just feels too safe and lacking in ambition.

He has 10 years experience coaching at international level, 3 Grand Slams, 4 Six Nations titles (including the grand slams), been to 3 world cups (including making a semi final) and has been attack coach on two Lions tours under different head coaches (Gatland and McGeechan).

The attack coach position at Munster isn't about giving someone a chance or trying an up and coming coach, its about experience and helping an extremely young coaching team.

I'd be amazed if there were too many other candidates with a CV even close to Howleys that would be interested in what is a fairly junior coaching role.

troyzer

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

What's the CV though? He's been the attack coach of a national side which was never the best and recently has been pretty mediocre.

It's not a bad appointment and will probably be an improvement. It's also a good sign that Munster can attract a coach like him.

It just feels too safe and lacking in ambition.

He has 10 years experience coaching at international level, 3 Grand Slams, 4 Six Nations titles (including the grand slams), been to 3 world cups (including making a semi final) and has been attack coach on two Lions tours under different head coaches (Gatland and McGeechan).

The attack coach position at Munster isn't about giving someone a chance or trying an up and coming coach, its about experience and helping an extremely young coaching team.

I'd be amazed if there were too many other candidates with a CV even close to Howleys that would be interested in what is a fairly junior coaching role.

Right but in none of those grand slams, titles, world cups and Lions tour has the Welsh attack been anything special.

leakyboots

I can see both sides, he's got an amazing CV. But I dunno if his philosophy is what we're looking for. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'll be honest, I'm in the 'not sure' camp.

troyzer

leakyboots wrote: »

I can see both sides, he's got an amazing CV. But I dunno if his philosophy is what we're looking for. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'll be honest, I'm in the 'not sure' camp.

I wouldn't really dispute his CV. A CV is just a quick glance at someone's achievements and experience and he does have the goods.

But if you look any deeper than that you'd see he might not be the best choice. I don't understand why Munster wouldn't go for an up and coming sex rugby connoisseur from New Zealand.

Or someone like Tony Brown if more experience is required.

Former Former

It would be a great signing IMO. There won't be that many guys with a similar CV who are willing to be an assistant coach at an Irish province.

aloooof

troyzer wrote: »

Right but in none of those grand slams, titles, world cups and Lions tour has the Welsh attack been anything special.

Sorry troyzer, but this reads like a line of satire.

troyzer

aloooof wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Right but in none of those grand slams, titles, world cups and Lions tour has the Welsh attack been anything special.

Sorry troyzer, but this reads like a line of satire.

I'm talking about the opportunity cost here.

You can either pay a lot for a coach who has coached a side which has been broadly successful (though there have been poor seasons) though not exactly known for its attack. Or you could probably get a super rugby up and coming coach with loads of ideas on the cheap.

It's a no brainer. Howley is safe and probably knows his way around the job better. But his attacks have always been safe and boring and have never been anything to write home about.

The best thing you can say about them is that they prioritise simplicity and graft. It doesn't require rugby ninjas to execute. It just requires hard work and dedication. But it doesn't give you spectacular results.

ionadnapokot

leakyboots wrote: »

I can see both sides, he's got an amazing CV. But I dunno if his philosophy is what we're looking for. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I'll be honest, I'm in the 'not sure' camp.

Im also in that camp! But am been enticed to pitching up to the “He’s not the coach Munster need” camp
SOB comments were alarming but then there is no way Howley got the gig without Murray being consulted.
If all of the Welsh coaching CVs were put on a table, the first one lifted would be “The Assistant” aka Welsh Defense coach. Then the Head Coach, then Forwards.
What is Howleys CV really telling Munster?
Clermont ‘10 Joe Schmidt CV v Wales/Lions ‘19 Howley CV:
Howley wins.
But most people would pick Joe Schmidt to coach their backline based on the rugby Blues/Clermont played and how the players talked of him.

Howley would clearly be a great signing imo. I'm delighted Leinster have gotten McBryde. You can't put a price on all that institutional knowledge he'll have. He's worked with Edwards and Gatland for years now, that's a massive amount of experience to bring into the setup.

troyzer

Kenya Tasty Peacock wrote: »

Howley would clearly be a great signing imo. I'm delighted Leinster have gotten McBryde. You can't put a price on all that institutional knowledge he'll have. He's worked with Edwards and Gatland for years now, that's a massive amount of experience to bring into the setup.

I don't think he'd be a bad coach. He has loads of experience and positive culture to bring in.

It's just the opportunity cost. I can just picture some coach currently running a Mitre 10 team coming in and getting instant buy in and patience from a team and organisation ready to change "the Munster way".

There is absolutely no reason why Munster can't be playing sex rugby like Toulouse in two or three seasons time. That should be their ambition.

Kirk Van Houten

The idea of the attack coach is to add experience to a very very young coaching ticket. An up and coming coach isn't going to add that necessarily.

thomond2006

I wonder if in cases like Casey and Johnston where there is a logjam of senior players, the provinces are missing a trick by not loaning them out for a year. I know there is Celtic Cup fixtures to fulfil but that's only a handful of games during the start of the season. Both the English and French clubs farm out players. In the case of England it's done via dual-registering, in France it's done via loans. Thomas Ramos of Toulouse, for example, spent the 2016-17 season at Colomiers where he made 24 appearances.

I look at someone like Calvin Nash who only made three appearances all season, despite ROM being injured. He's still young and turns 22 in August, but in hindsight could he have benefited from regular gametime overseas?

thomond2006

I wonder if in cases like Casey and Johnston where there is a logjam of senior players, the provinces are missing a trick by not loaning them out for a year. I know there is Celtic Cup fixtures to fulfil but that's only a handful of games during the start of the season. Both the English and French clubs farm out players. In the case of England it's done via dual-registering, in France it's done via loans. Thomas Ramos of Toulouse, for example, spent the 2016-17 season at Colomiers where he made 24 appearances.

I look at someone like Calvin Nash who only made three appearances all season, despite ROM being injured. He's still young and turns 22 in August, but in hindsight could he have benefited from regular gametime overseas?

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

I wonder if in cases like Casey and Johnston where there is a logjam of senior players, the provinces are missing a trick by not loaning them out for a year. I know there is Celtic Cup fixtures to fulfil but that's only a handful of games during the start of the season. Both the English and French clubs farm out players. In the case of England it's done via dual-registering, in France it's done via loans. Thomas Ramos of Toulouse, for example, spent the 2016-17 season at Colomiers where he made 24 appearances.

I look at someone like Calvin Nash who only made three appearances all season, despite ROM being injured. He's still young and turns 22 in August, but in hindsight could he have benefited from regular gametime overseas?

I think there's merit to it but is there any mechanism available for it to actually happen? Where would Nash go for example?

Squidgy Black

Kenya Tasty Peacock wrote: »

I think there's merit to it but is there any mechanism available for it to actually happen? Where would Nash go for example?

A partnership with a Championship side or a Pro D2 side might work, the rugby there (for the most part) would be a higher standard than AIL.

There had been a lot of discussion over the years about arranging something with London Irish, but now they're back in the Premiership I don't think that would be feasible.

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Kenya Tasty Peacock wrote: »

I think there's merit to it but is there any mechanism available for it to actually happen? Where would Nash go for example?

A partnership with a Championship side or a Pro D2 side might work, the rugby there (for the most part) would be a higher standard than AIL.

There had been a lot of discussion over the years about arranging something with London Irish, but now they're back in the Premiership I don't think that would be feasible.

MLR would be the obvious choice to me.

The SRU have bought a stake in the Old Glory team and with Basteraud going to New York, it's clear that the money and standards there will be better than AIL.

If the IRFU were smart they'd set up a franchise. Something like the Boston Exiles or whatever. Lads would be delighted to go over for a season and live in the states.

The Lost Sheep

troyzer wrote: »

MLR would be the obvious choice to me.

The SRU have bought a stake in the Old Glory team and with Basteraud going to New York, it's clear that the money and standards there will be better than AIL.

If the IRFU were smart they'd set up a franchise. Something like the Boston Exiles or whatever. Lads would be delighted to go over for a season and live in the states.

IRFU dont need to buy a stake in any side and shouldnt. By all means get games against these sides for A teams but we shouldnt be buying any stake in these sides

troyzer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

MLR would be the obvious choice to me.

The SRU have bought a stake in the Old Glory team and with Basteraud going to New York, it's clear that the money and standards there will be better than AIL.

If the IRFU were smart they'd set up a franchise. Something like the Boston Exiles or whatever. Lads would be delighted to go over for a season and live in the states.

IRFU dont need to buy a stake in any side and shouldnt. By all means get games against these sides for A teams but we shouldnt be buying any stake in these sides

Why wouldn't they? They'd have complete control and effectively use it as a minor league team. Something the North American market would be very familiar with it.

In fact, I'd be shocked if MLR's reaction to such a proposition was anything other than feverish excitement.

Seems like a really easy win which would cost the IRFU next to nothing and potentially get an early foothold in the sleeping giant rugby market.

thomond2006

I was suggesting just loaning to Championship/ProD2.

MLR would be interesting too.

troyzer

thomond2006 wrote: »

I was suggesting just loaning to Championship/ProD2.

MLR would be interesting too.

Loaning could work the same way in MLR as well.

The way that minor league teams in the US work is that the major team (say the Red Sox) will either own or have a relationship with a minor team (Pawtucket). Pawtucket will have their own players and will also have players lent to them and paid by Boston. Boston send their younger players to get experience in the minor leagues.

Boston can recall these players at any time if needed.

So imagine a scenario where the Boston Exiles is owned by the IRFU. They would have a core squad of 20-30 players who are locals or otherwise directly contracted with the team. And the provinces can then send players over to get experience if they want. So Craig Casey might go over for half a season but still on the Munster payroll and can be recalled.

The major downside of course is that there aren't nearly as many games in rugby as baseball so the analogy breaks down a little. You'd also lose the benefits of training with the senior provincial team.

phog

SF Tickets

Munster will face Leinster in the Guinness PRO14 semi-final at the RDS on Saturday, May 18 (3pm).
The distribution of Munster’s ticket allocation begins today and they will initially go to the Munster Rugby clubs, the Munster Rugby Supporters Club and 10-Year Ticket Holders.

Supporters Club members and 10-Year Ticket holders will receive a link to buy tickets via the email address linked to their Season Ticket.

Should there be any tickets remaining, there will be a general sale from this Thursday, May 9.

yerrahbah

No raffle this year so. Good.