Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

thomond2006

There's a growing habit of re-signing (or at least the announcement of) before the last year of the current contract. First Carbery, now Beirne.

Shefwedfan

Didn't realize Beirne is 27....I thought he was in early 20's

thomond2006

Kevin O'Byrne 2020
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2021

Diarmuid Barron Year 1
Eoghan Clarke Year 1

James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2020
Liam O'Connor 2020
Jeremy Loughman 2020

James French Year 1
Josh Wycherley Year 1

Stephen Archer 2020
John Ryan 2022
Brian Scott 2020
Ciaran Parker 2020

Keynan Knox Year 3 & 2022

Tadhg Beirne 2022
Billy Holland 2020
Jean Kleyn 2022
Sean O'Connor 2020
Darren O'Shea 2020
Fineen Wycherley 2021

Thomas Ahern Year 1

Arno Botha 2020
Gavin Coombes 2021
Chris Cloete 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2021
Peter O'Mahony 2021
Conor Oliver 2020
CJ Stander 2021

Jack Daly Year 1
Jack O'Sullivan Year 2

Craig Casey 2021
Neil Cronin 2021
Alby Mathewson Nov 2019
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022

Jack Stafford Year 2

Tyler Bleyendaal 2021
Joey Carbery 2022
JJ Hanrahan 2021
Bill Johnston 2020

Ben Healy Year 1
Alan Tynan Year 2

Sam Arnold 2020
Shane Daly 2021
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2020
Rory Scannell 2021

Sean French Year 1
Alex McHenry Year 2

Andrew Conway 2020
Keith Earls 2021
Mike Haley 2021
Calvin Nash 2021
Darren Sweetnam 2021
Alex Wootton 2021

Liam Coombes Year 2
Jonathan Wren Year 1

2019/20 Movements:
IN: Nick McCarthy (SH, Leinster)
OUT: Mike Sherry (HK, Gloucester/TBC), Dave O'Callaghan (FL, Biarritz), Duncan Williams (SH, TBC), James Hart (SH, Biarritz), Ian Keatley (FH, Benetton), Matt More (CT, South Africa), Jaco Taute (CT, Leicester Tigers), James McCarthy (WG, Wales/TBC), Ronan O'Mahony (WG, Retired), Stephen Fitzgerald (WG, Connacht)

2019/20 NIEs:
Arno Botha (capped), Chris Cloete (uncapped), Alby Mathewson (capped)

aloooof

thomond2006 wrote: »

There's a growing habit of re-signing (or at least the announcement of) before the last year of the current contract. First Carbery, now Beirne.

It's a trend I'm ok with, particularly for players of the calibre of Carbery and Beirne. If I had to guess, I'd imagine they've been offered better terms as well.

joseywhales

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Why keep Tyler and Alby?

Tyler is backup at both 10 and 12 where he could comfortably start any match in either position.
Particularly at 10 where perhaps Hanrahan and Johnston would not have been deemed good enough to be our only options to start a Heineken Cup match with Carbery away at the RWC.
While Carbery is expected to be away at the RWC and may pick up an injury, Bleyendaal offers backup for important European games.

Alby is cover for Murray while he is away at the RWC, but more importantly he will be available should Murray go down with an injury at the RWC and should we need Alby to play the European pool matches.
The backup players, Cronin/McCarthy/Casey were probably not deemed good enough to start those matches if Murray were unavailable.

It could be the difference between making the European knockouts or not so they were deals worth making.

I suppose the question is, would you prefer to make the knockouts for the next three years and lose or would you take a long shot on academy players and probably not make the knockouts every year but have a team capable of dominating Europe later and maintain a consistent level without signing second string foreign players thereafter.

troyzer

joseywhales wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Why keep Tyler and Alby?

Tyler is backup at both 10 and 12 where he could comfortably start any match in either position.
Particularly at 10 where perhaps Hanrahan and Johnston would not have been deemed good enough to be our only options to start a Heineken Cup match with Carbery away at the RWC.
While Carbery is expected to be away at the RWC and may pick up an injury, Bleyendaal offers backup for important European games.

Alby is cover for Murray while he is away at the RWC, but more importantly he will be available should Murray go down with an injury at the RWC and should we need Alby to play the European pool matches.
The backup players, Cronin/McCarthy/Casey were probably not deemed good enough to start those matches if Murray were unavailable.

It could be the difference between making the European knockouts or not so they were deals worth making.

I suppose the question is, would you prefer to make the knockouts for the next three years and lose or would you take a long shot on academy players and probably not make the knockouts every year but have a team capable of dominating Europe later and maintain a consistent level without signing second string foreign players thereafter.

This^

This is fundamentally the issue. Munster just refuse to back their players because of the win now mentality which has consistently only been good enough to get them to a semi final.

Signing Mathewson as world cup cover is such a red herring. Everyone talks about world cup cover like it actually matters.

It doesn't because EVERYONE has a weaker squad with the exception of teams who aren't bulk suppliers.

And trying to argue that you need to spend more money on imports because you have loads of internationals is an obviously ludicrous argument.

irelandrover

JJ isn't good enough to lead a team to the European Cup. So TB is blocking Johnston starting a game. Is Johnston really good enough to start a European semi against saracens. I'd say no. And throwing him in like that at this stage could be a set back in confidence.

It's no surprise to me that TB was kept. The surprise was JJ and I'd rather keep Johnston than JJ

shootermacg

Yeah I don't know what was happening in training but I've not really seen Johnston have a bad game.

Cookiemunster

shootermacg wrote: »

Yeah I don't know what was happening in training but I've not really seen Johnston have a bad game.

Conversely I've not seen him do anything that shouts I'm better that JJ/Tyler. In both situations the sample size is small though.

Squatter

Kenya Tasty Peacock wrote: »

I don't really get the constant questioning of TB being assigned up again. He just started a European SF,

he's obviously highly valued by the powers that be at Munster.

Talk about damning a player with faint praise!

Caranica

Part of what Alby gives is experience and mentoring. There were some articles earlier in the year about him helping the younger guys. With Murray away so much, our 9s for this season going forward are low on experience. Someone to talk about the mental challenges, and tactics at 9, as well as being an All Black and a senior player for several teams is a huge bonus

troyzer

Caranica wrote: »

Part of what Alby gives is experience and mentoring. There were some articles earlier in the year about him helping the younger guys. With Murray away so much, our 9s for this season going forward are low on experience. Someone to talk about the mental challenges, and tactics at 9, as well as being an All Black and a senior player for several teams is a huge bonus

It's still bizarre. Leinster are down to first year academy players at times during the internationals and are still winning. It's the only way they get proper minutes and development.

typhoony

troyzer wrote: »

It's still bizarre. Leinster are down to first year academy players at times during the internationals and are still winning. It's the only way they get proper minutes and development.

leinster has become the only development province for itself and for the other provinces

Shefwedfan

Caranica wrote: »

Part of what Alby gives is experience and mentoring. There were some articles earlier in the year about him helping the younger guys. With Murray away so much, our 9s for this season going forward are low on experience. Someone to talk about the mental challenges, and tactics at 9, as well as being an All Black and a senior player for several teams is a huge bonus

The games Murray is missing are in the Pro14...

Lets look at the early season match's at home for Munster in the Pro14 when Murray had injury and when Alby was "required". Most of the teams sent the reserves and didn't bother with the first team.....hardly a mental challange stick 64 points on some Ulster kids:P

Lets look at some of these results
v Ceetahs 38-0
v Osprey 49-13
v Ulster 64 - 7
v Edinburgh 44-13

The away form at that time, well Murray could have played and they still would have been woeful.

Are you trying to tell me they need a former All Black to play against the reserves of Osprey and Edinburgh? beating Ulster 48-7 and giving a young 9 a run not be better in long run for Munster?

They have resigned him to play in similar games next season except those sides will be weaker as the majority of all the Pro14 teams will be at WC....

Jump_In_Jack

joseywhales wrote: »

I suppose the question is, would you prefer to make the knockouts for the next three years and lose or would you take a long shot on academy players and probably not make the knockouts every year but have a team capable of dominating Europe later and maintain a consistent level without signing second string foreign players thereafter.

It simply is not an “either-or” situation.
Either play more academy players or never win.
Your postulated scenarios are complete nonsense.
Munster do not need to field inexperienced academy players in Heineken Cup matches to have any chance of winning one someday.
All they need is to make slight improvements year on year and to get a bit of luck in their matches and a competent ref.

Young players must prove themselves worthy by performing against the weaker teams first, before graduating on to bigger matches, and if not good enough then an experienced player of a proven quality should be selected instead if available.

Shefwedfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

It simply is not an “either-or” situation.
Either play more academy players or never win.
Your postulated scenarios are complete nonsense.
Munster do not need to field inexperienced academy players in Heineken Cup matches to have any chance of winning one someday.
All they need is to make slight improvements year on year and to get a bit of luck in their matches and a competent ref.

Young players must prove themselves worthy by performing against the weaker teams first, before graduating on to bigger matches, and if not good enough then an experienced player of a proven quality should be selected instead if available.

Munster sort away form and they will get to final(probably). Losing silly games away mean they don’t get home qtr or semis

Nothing to do with the refs

They should use the Pro14 as the place to give academy players experience....playing earls in a easy match against Cardiff knocked him out of the semis, he should of been sat at home watching on tv....why do they need a former AB for a game against Cardiff B?

yerrahbah

It's the indo so not sure if i believe it, but if true its good news Casey didn't have his head turned by Leinster


http://https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1126531336787906565

Former Former

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Young players must prove themselves worthy by performing against the weaker teams first, before graduating on to bigger matches, and if not good enough then an experienced player of a proven quality should be selected instead if available.

Exactly. For all the talk of needing to give young guys a chance, who was the last academy player to come through and DEMAND selection? If a young guy is good enough, he'll be picked, but there simply hasn't been any in that category last few years (unless I'm missing someone obvious).

Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

Exactly. For all the talk of needing to give young guys a chance, who was the last academy player to come through and DEMAND selection? If a young guy is good enough, he'll be picked, but there simply hasn't been any in that category last few years (unless I'm missing someone obvious).

That's a funny attitude to have towards young players

Larmour has always said that last season his aim was to maybe play a few Leinster A games and maybe, huge maybe, get a bench match when internationals are away

Very few 18 year old are going to walk into a dressing room full of internationals and demand to be in the first team....


Would you have at 18?

Caranica

yerrahbah wrote: »

It's the indo so not sure if i believe it, but if true its good news Casey didn't have his head turned by Leinster


http://https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1126531336787906565

Link not working?

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Munster sort away form and they will get to final(probably). Losing silly games away mean they don’t get home qtr or semis

Nothing to do with the refs

They should use the Pro14 as the place to give academy players experience....playing earls in a easy match against Cardiff knocked him out of the semis, he should of been sat at home watching on tv....why do they need a former AB for a game against Cardiff B?

Earls didn't play in the game against Cardiff, he pulled up during the warm-up.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That's a funny attitude to have towards young players

Larmour has always said that last season his aim was to maybe play a few Leinster A games and maybe, huge maybe, get a bench match when internationals are away

Very few 18 year old are going to walk into a dressing room full of internationals and demand to be in the first team....


Would you have at 18?

Can't speak for Former Former, but I took that to mean demand selection thru their performances.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Earls didn't play in the game against Cardiff, he pulled up during the warm-up.

I know, but he was going to play but got an injury before the game, did Munster really need a Irish International on the pitch against Cardiff at home?

Former Former

aloooof wrote: »

Can't speak for Former Former, but I took that to mean demand selection thru their performances.

I can't believe you had to clarify that but yes, thank you

yerrahbah

http://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1126531336787906565

Caranica wrote: »

Link not working?

thomond2006

I imagine had Munster been forced into promoting Casey six months ago we wouldn't see Nick McCarthy or Cronin on the books next season.

c.p.w.g.w

yerrahbah wrote: »

http://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1126531336787906565

Should post it up on the Leinster thread everytime they mention that they are the academy for Munster

troyzer

thomond2006 wrote: »

I imagine had Munster been forced into promoting Casey six months ago we wouldn't see Nick McCarthy or Cronin on the books next season.

Exactly.

You've hit the nail on the head. If Munster had decided to back their academy they probably would have another game or two but they'd have unearthed a quality prospect at 9 and wouldn't have wasted money on Mathewson and wouldn't have felt the need to sign McCarthy. They probably would have kept Cronin anyway.

Instead, they never let him near a game and it was up to the U20s team to let him shine.

sydthebeat

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Should post it up on the Leinster thread everytime they mention that they are the academy for Munster

careful now... youre coming across as a bit of a LOMF

Eod100

yerrahbah wrote: »

http://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1126531336787906565

Turned down what? Was it confirmed Leinster actually made an approach? Seemed like speculation tbh.