Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

shootermacg

deleted wrong thread.

fonecrusher1

Donald Trumped wrote: »

It appears that Stephen Larkham is a major contender to become Munster's backs/attack coach according to the Indo's Cian Tracey. My message to Munster Rugby is this. Please make this happen!!!!!!

The link regarding this news is below.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/munster-talk-to-australia-legend-stephen-larkham-over-backs-coach-vacancy-38116787.html

It would be fantastic but i'm not seeing it happen. He'll get big offers from a number of clubs and i'd say the French national setup will double any offers he gets from anyone.

Fingers crossed though.

phog

Team for tomorrow

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Chris Farrell, Rory Scannell, Keith Earls; Joey Carbery, Conor Murray; Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Peter O’Mahony (C), CJ Stander, Arno Botha.

Replacements: Kevin O’Byrne, Liam O’Connor, Stephen Archer, Billy Holland, Jack O’Donoghue, Alby Mathewson, JJ Hanrahan, Dan Goggin.

Earls and Joey back, we probably need them to be in with a chance

Caranica

CJ at 7 is interesting as is no Cloete in the 23. JJ over Tyler is the right call on recent form

Shefwedfan

Whats the crack with Rhys Marshall? interview on Baz and Andrew and seems like really nice fellow. Dont remember seeing a whole pile of him?

If he option behind Scannell etc when Best retires?

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Whats the crack with Rhys Marshall? interview on Baz and Andrew and seems like really nice fellow. Dont remember seeing a whole pile of him?

If he option behind Scannell etc when Best retires?

Probably better with ball in hand and in open play vs Scannell. Can't say I know enough about scrummaging to comment on who's the better player in that regard. I'd expect him to get capped maybe next set of AI's.

Erik Shun

Marshall is probably the best hooker at Munster.. just a run of niggly injuries... after the world cup he's a shoe-in for an Ireland cap

Donald Trumped

After watching another Munster performance that was most blunt in attack, yet again, it is vitally important that Munster rugby will put the appropriate resources in, to ensure they get the best man for the job for both attack, skills and improving the skill-set of the players in general.

My message to the powers that be in Munster rugby is this. Please don't let a lack of money be an excuse. We need to get the best men for the relevant gigs in question. We have a great fanbase, as seen today for example in the RDS. It is the very least that Munster rugby deserve, not just the fans, but the players also. Van Graan is a bluffer and I just have zero faith in him to lead Munster forward. Why oh why did the big blazers at Munster rugby HQ give him a new 2 year contract, when under no pressure to do so, is bewildering to say the least.

Finally a special word of appreciation to Jerry Flannery and Felix Jones. Much maligned and criticized, you cannot fault the effort that they brought to their coaching roles over the last few seasons. They will always will be Munster legends for what they did on the field while bringing that same energy of it too. Best of luck lads whatever you do in the future.

Donald Trumped

Lads if the players and JVG are not in harmony, could the South African walk from the job. I have a feeling for about the last 2 months or so, that there some disharmony within the Munster camp with Flannery and Jones walking, a major turning point. They are Munster legends and the leading players within the province would not be one bit happy to see their fellow mates being shafted. Personally I feel that there is a twist in the tail yet and there is no guarantee that JVG will be the Munster head coach come the start of the 2019/20 season.

Squidgy Black

Donald Trumped wrote: »

Lads if the players and JVG are not in harmony, could be South African walk from the job. I have a feeling for about the last 2 months or so, that there some disharmony within the Munster camp with Flannery and Jones walking, a major turning point. They are Munster legends and the leading players within the province would not be one bit happy to see their fellow mates being shafted. Personally I feel that there is a twist in the tail yet and there is no guarantee that JVG will be the Munster head coach come the start of the 2019/20 season.

Considering he only extended his contract for another two years a month ago, he's very much guaranteed to be the coach for the start of next season.

Erik Shun

I think the disharmony is more to do with the coaching setup unable to execute Van Grann's vision... he'll have all of next season with his new staff in place...if things don't go well...he prob wont see the second year of his contract

Former Former

JVG might not be the man for the job. But neither was Erasmus, Foley or Penney...

At least part of the problem is that the players aren't good enough. There is a step up required that much of the current squad are simply not capable of making.

The Specialist

Former Former wrote: »

JVG might not be the man for the job. But neither was Erasmus, Foley or Penney...

At least part of the problem is that the players aren't good enough. There is a step up required that much of the current squad are simply not capable of making.

But the thing is we do have the players, we have unreal players ready to do the job. Something is not clicking though and I’d point at the gameplan - we reduced a lot of the mindless kicking from touch this year but we still fall back on it occasionally to get us out of trouble. It does not work, it has never worked and it will never work - when possession is gained hold on to the ****in ball and start making runs

Erik Shun

Former Former wrote: »

JVG might not be the man for the job. But neither was Erasmus, Foley or Penney...

At least part of the problem is that the players aren't good enough. There is a step up required that much of the current squad are simply not capable of making.

Yeah, we only had a dozen Irish internationals on show today...

Buer

Being an Irish international does not equate to being a test quality player though. Rory O'Loughlin, Billy Holland, Arno Botha, Rory Scannell, JOD and Ross Byrne were all international players on the field today. I wouldn't say any of them are solid international quality though.


Munster mostly have the players but there are a couple of notable gaps that jump out as weak points to me most notably a top class back row player. TOD, JOD, Botha and Cloete have all been selected this season to start in crunch knockout or European games. I don't think any of them are ever going to be the required level and none of them are kids anymore.

sydthebeat

Former Former wrote: »

JVG might not be the man for the job. But neither was Erasmus, Foley or Penney...

At least part of the problem is that the players aren't good enough. There is a step up required that much of the current squad are simply not capable of making.

As a leinster fan I actually don't agree.

I think if they have persisted with penny they would have silverware by now, not european. They needed to get axel in, and they did.

Former Former

Erik Shun wrote: »

Yeah, we only had a dozen Irish internationals on show today...

Ulster probably weren't too far off that number yesterday. It's utterly meaningless.

They're not good enough. There hasn't been a really good academy graduate in years. The singings have been solid rather than transformative. Both of those need to be resolved; the academy has to do better and a couple of big names have to be imported.

Munster have plateaued. The current squad is good enough to keep them at the current level but no more.

thomond2006

I hope Fineen Wycherley will push on. He's a future international.

Erik Shun

Former Former wrote: »

Ulster probably weren't too far off that number yesterday. It's utterly meaningless.

They're not good enough. There hasn't been a really good academy graduate in years. The singings have been solid rather than transformative. Both of those need to be resolved; the academy has to do better and a couple of big names have to be imported.

Munster have plateaued. The current squad is good enough to keep them at the current level but no more.

I think most people would disagree with you...an inventive attack coach will revitalise our back play.. and perhaps a new player will be coming in...

Bazzo

My message to anyone who wants to own a Ferrari is this. Please don't let a lack of money be an excuse.

thomond2006

Kevin O'Byrne 2020
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2021

Diarmuid Barron Year 2
Eoghan Clarke Year 2

James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2020
Liam O'Connor 2020
Jeremy Loughman 2020

James French Year 2
Josh Wycherley Year 2

Stephen Archer 2020
John Ryan 2022
Brian Scott 2020
Ciaran Parker 2020

Keynan Knox Year 3 & 2022

Tadhg Beirne 2022
Billy Holland 2020
Jean Kleyn 2022
Sean O'Connor 2020
Darren O'Shea 2020
Fineen Wycherley 2021

Thomas Ahern Year 2

Arno Botha 2020
Gavin Coombes 2021
Chris Cloete 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2021
Peter O'Mahony 2021
Conor Oliver 2020
CJ Stander 2021

Jack Daly Year 2
Jack O'Sullivan Year 3

Craig Casey 2021
Neil Cronin 2021
Alby Mathewson Nov 2019
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022

Jack Stafford Year 3

Tyler Bleyendaal 2021
Joey Carbery 2022
JJ Hanrahan 2021
Bill Johnston 2020

Ben Healy Year 2
Alan Tynan Year 3

Sam Arnold 2020
Shane Daly 2021
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2020
Rory Scannell 2021

Sean French Year 2
Alex McHenry Year 3

Andrew Conway 2020
Keith Earls 2021
Mike Haley 2021
Calvin Nash 2021
Darren Sweetnam 2021
Alex Wootton 2021

Liam Coombes Year 3
Jonathan Wren Year 2

2019/20 Movements:
IN: Nick McCarthy (SH, Leinster)
OUT: Mike Sherry (HK, Gloucester/TBC), Dave O'Callaghan (FL, Biarritz), Duncan Williams (SH, TBC), James Hart (SH, Biarritz), Ian Keatley (FH, Benetton), Matt More (CT, South Africa), Jaco Taute (CT, Leicester Tigers), James McCarthy (WG, Wales/TBC), Ronan O'Mahony (WG, Retired), Stephen Fitzgerald (WG, Connacht)

2019/20 NIEs:
Arno Botha (capped), Chris Cloete (uncapped), Alby Mathewson (capped)

fonecrusher1

Munster were abysmal in the 2nd half. Truly no attacking strategy whatsoever, too many stupid mistakes, too many players not playing to their best. Carbery was average. Conor Murray is not playing to the same level either. Earls gave 100% but he was running into dead ends. In fairness to Leinster's defense it was superb. Munster never really looked like they were going to score a try. Leinster on the other hand any time they went on the attack they had intent, a plan.

I really hope this partly down to the disruption caused by Flannery and Jone's announced departure. Now i'm starting to think is Van Graan part of the problem? I hope not. Is the skill level there to begin with to attack properly? Regardless of coaching. On paper this is the best team Munster has had for a few years yet we've failed to secure silverware again and we still have a percentage of players who are good but not great.

We need those new coaches to settle in and make things happen for next season. A lot of work ahead for the lads to catch up with the other big teams.

AbusesToilets

Have to feel for the Munster backs, on paper they should have one of the best back lines in Europe. Thought Farrell was fairly dominant going forward today, but little came from his efforts. There is a serious need for a skills coach for the pack, they wouldn't in a million years have produced the try that Cronin scored. Reminds me of how Joe had to drill the Leinster team for months when he arrived, so poor were their passing levels.

The.modern game demands complete players, it's frankly a bit of a disgrace that Munster display such a failing.

Donnielighto

Munster are a weird one. Traditionally forwards focus and while that is still important the rules are always changing and encouraging a faster game. Minsters slower arm wrestle style isn't a long term thing I think especially the toll it places on places. Stifles backs too, think more backline developement and high tempo is needed.

Edit: Abuses toilets above me was much more eloquent, I was pretty late hitting post...

Former Former

Erik Shun wrote: »

I think most people would disagree with you...an inventive attack coach will revitalise our back play.. and perhaps a new player will be coming in...

Perhaps, but we've been hearing some variety of this point for almost a decade now and all the while, the squad is getting weaker, not stronger.

fonecrusher1

Donnielighto wrote: »

Traditionally forwards focus and while that is still important the rules are always changing and encouraging a faster game.

That's the thing though, all the top level teams (Saracens for example) are able to do the forward stuff and have the attacking talent to back it up. Munster can't beat up teams like they used to. Its something they can no longer rely on to pull themselves through the big games. The game has changed (for quite a few years at this stage) and Munster needs to catch up in attack because at the moment there's little threat there for oppositions with good defenses.

Caranica

We fell apart in their 22 and we had discipline issues. We had the potential to wipe the floor with them from all of those squandered attacking opportunities. We didn't. Game over. Season over.

I don't think Johann is the problem, I think he needs coaches with a vision around him. We were soooooooo predictable today bar a try saving kick from Rory Scannell. We have the potential, just not the finish.

fonecrusher1

Caranica wrote: »

We fell apart in their 22 and we had discipline issues. We had the potential to wipe the floor with them from all of those squandered attacking opportunities. We didn't. Game over. Season over.

Sorry but this is not what I seen today at all. Munster were ponderous, predictable and posed very little threat to Leinster's defense.

sydthebeat

Caranica wrote: »

We fell apart in their 22 and we had discipline issues. We had the potential to wipe the floor with them from all of those squandered attacking opportunities. We didn't. Game over. Season over.

I don't think Johann is the problem, I think he needs coaches with a vision around him. We were soooooooo predictable today bar a try saving kick from Rory Scannell. We have the potential, just not the finish.

That's like saying the common cold has the potential to wipe out humanity..


Its just not strong enough though.....

troyzer

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Caranica wrote: »

We fell apart in their 22 and we had discipline issues. We had the potential to wipe the floor with them from all of those squandered attacking opportunities. We didn't. Game over. Season over.

Sorry but this is not what I seen today at all. Munster were ponderous, predictable and posed very little threat to Leinster's defense.

I mean, any team had a chance to wipe the floor with another team.

If they were much, much, much, much better.