Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Faugheen

Caranica wrote: »

We fell apart in their 22 and we had discipline issues. We had the potential to wipe the floor with them from all of those squandered attacking opportunities. We didn't. Game over. Season over.

Munster never looked close to scoring a try. You made yards getting into the 22 you couldn't get innovative to try and create the space, as has been said about Munster time and time again this year.

Once they come up against a well organised defence they fail. There's only so much of the blame you can put on that to Felix Jones. There has to come a point where you look at what JVG is doing. Any head coach worth their salt has an input into how the backs play but yet a large portion of the Munster supporters try to dismiss this.

The Lost Sheep

Donald Trumped wrote: »

After watching another Munster performance that was most blunt in attack, yet again, it is vitally important that Munster rugby will put the appropriate resources in, to ensure they get the best man for the job for both attack, skills and improving the skill-set of the players in general.

The work on skillset really needs to be done far earlier and changes still need to be made earlier in the production line as Leinster and other provinces producing players with better skills than Munster players by and large.

My message to the powers that be in Munster rugby is this. Please don't let a lack of money be an excuse. We need to get the best men for the relevant gigs in question. We have a great fanbase, as seen today for example in the RDS. It is the very least that Munster rugby deserve, not just the fans, but the players also. Van Graan is a bluffer and I just have zero faith in him to lead Munster forward. Why oh why did the big blazers at Munster rugby HQ give him a new 2 year contract, when under no pressure to do so, is bewildering to say the least.

Van Graan is far from bluffer and if not him then who? It cant simply be coach all the time. How many coaches Munster went through recently....

Finally a special word of appreciation to Jerry Flannery and Felix Jones. Much maligned and criticized, you cannot fault the effort that they brought to their coaching roles over the last few seasons. They will always will be Munster legends for what they did on the field while bringing that same energy of it too. Best of luck lads whatever you do in the future.

They may have been very good players but so what that has little relevance to their ability to coach a professional level side...

The Specialist wrote: »

But the thing is we do have the players, we have unreal players ready to do the job. Something is not clicking though and I’d point at the gameplan - we reduced a lot of the mindless kicking from touch this year but we still fall back on it occasionally to get us out of trouble. It does not work, it has never worked and it will never work - when possession is gained hold on to the ****in ball and start making runs

Do have players for what though? The game plan is that as Munster dont have skill level by and large for a different type of game plan.....

kingofthekong

Munster have a talent development issue and so do Ulster , the quality of player coming out of the academies isn't good enough to compete at the top level and win silverware, how they change this I'm not sure , Ulster keep producing talented you backs - but haven't produced a decent forward since Henderson, Munster had a nice prospect in Bill Johnston but decided to bring in Carbery instead, Forwards wise Munster have also struggled in recent years with JOD probably being the best but even he isn't near the level of some of the Leinster products,

Burkie1203

Munsters big issue for next season now is the RWC.

Potentially 8 players will travel from this group
POM Stander Murray Carbery Farrell Earls Beirne Kilcoyne Scannell Conway Ryan

New coaches and a core group of first XV won't be around for pre season etc. These players feed back in a few weeks before the European games begin. Can see the word transition being used a lot by comms next season

Erik Shun

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Munsters big issue for next season now is the RWC.

Potentially 8 players will travel from this group
POM Stander Murray Carbery Farrell Earls Beirne Kilcoyne Scannell Conway Ryan

New coaches and a core group of first XV won't be around for pre season etc. These players feed back in a few weeks before the European games begin. Can see the word transition being used a lot by comms next season

I don't think the word transition will be used tbf, we have younger players like Goggin, Nash, Sweetnam, Wycherley, JOD, Arnold, wootton, Scott etc who will want to step up for a few months and show their worth.
Also rumours of a signing or 2 in the pipeline, so if we get the right coaching ticket in place (not too worried about defence.. attack is the issue) we could hit the ground running

Burkie1203

Erik Shun wrote: »

I don't think the word transition will be used tbf, we have younger players like Goggin, Nash, Sweetnam, Wycherley, JOD, Arnold, wootton, Scott etc who will want to step up for a few months and show their worth.
Also rumours of a signing or 2 in the pipeline, so if we get the right coaching ticket in place (not too worried about defence.. attack is the issue) we could hit the ground running

Indo article today suggests no new signings will be made. Nick McCarthy will be it.

Hard to hit the ground running in Europe when half your starting XV won't be around until late October at the earliest.

Erik Shun

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Indo article today suggests no new signings will be made. Nick McCarthy will be it.

Hard to hit the ground running in Europe when half your starting XV won't be around until late October at the earliest.

Can only repeat what I've heard, but signings will be happening...and not worried about who is missing, we have the players capable of filling in, but I stress again...we need the coaches in place to get the balance right

Burkie1203

Erik Shun wrote: »

Can only repeat what I've heard, but signings will be happening...and not worried about who is missing, we have the players capable of filling in, but I stress again...we need the coaches in place to get the balance right

Fill in? In Europe?

I'm talking about if new coaches arrive for pre season then about 8-10 of the starting XV will have a few weeks to get upto speed for Europe

Leinster were in this position in 2015 and it was a disaster.

Erik Shun

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Fill in? In Europe?

I'm talking about if new coaches arrive for pre season then about 8-10 of the starting XV will have a few weeks to get upto speed for Europe

Leinster were in this position in 2015 and it was a disaster.

It's not like these guys are coming straight into the club .. they've all had plenty of game time, JOD has over a hundred caps, plenty of experience there...the players aren't the issue here at all

Shefwedfan

Erik Shun wrote: »

It's not like these guys are coming straight into the club .. they've all had plenty of game time, JOD has over a hundred caps, plenty of experience there...the players aren't the issue here at all

The only match Leinster won that season in the group stage was with the kids....


The rest, all losses and by some huge scorelines.....


Players arrived back from WC, no idea of the calls, no idea of lineout moves etc etc....it was a disaster....


Very strange move by all to let Fla and Felix go

Burkie1203

Erik Shun wrote: »

It's not like these guys are coming straight into the club .. they've all had plenty of game time, JOD has over a hundred caps, plenty of experience there...the players aren't the issue here at all

Of course the players are part of the issue.

Saracens, Benetton and Leinster. 240 minutes of knockout rugby in the last 5 weeks and 1 try (which shouldn't have been allowed) speaks volumes about coaching but there is a wider issue too


Most of those players you mention are good Pro14 players but that's it. They won't form the core of a European cup winning team IMO

Wycherley is the great hope currently to become a top player



Bringing 8-10 of the starting XV in to a new coaching ticket a few weeks before Europe will be a major challenge.

Look at Leinster v Ulster as an example of the challenge with a coaching team the players have had for several years with 1 new coach (Dr Phil) in almost a year.

Burkie1203

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The only match Leinster won that season in the group stage was with the kids....


The rest, all losses and by some huge scorelines.....


Players arrived back from WC, no idea of the calls, no idea of lineout moves etc etc....it was a disaster....


Very strange move by all to let Fla and Felix go

RWC year is a bad time as Leinster found out. Cullen took over but it took time to rebuild. Leinster had a far better supply line to work with too

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Very strange move by all to let Fla and Felix go

I would disagree on Jones. What value is he adding?

Erik Shun

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Of course the players are part of the issue.

Saracens, Benetton and Leinster. 240 minutes of knockout rugby in the last 5 weeks and 1 try (which shouldn't have been allowed) speaks volumes about coaching but there is a wider issue too


Most of those players you mention are good Pro14 players but that's it. They won't form the core of a European cup winning team IMO

Wycherley is the great hope currently to become a top player



Bringing 8-10 of the starting XV in to a new coaching ticket a few weeks before Europe will be a major challenge.

Look at Leinster v Ulster as an example of the challenge with a coaching team the players have had for several years with 1 new coach (Dr Phil) in almost a year.

Seems people are forgetting that our defense was the tightest in Europe, JP Ferreira is the reason there, not Fla, make no mistake about that...
As for offence...this is where we were lacking, we have 3 of the best NH talents in Murray, Earls and Carberry away at the world cup, to suggest that they won't be able to get up to speed with new calls is more than laughable.
Qualifying from our group will not be the problem, it's the final bit of detail to go from semi final to final is what we need to find

Burkie1203

Erik Shun wrote: »

Seems people are forgetting that our defense was the tightest in Europe, JP Ferreira is the reason there, not Fla, make no mistake about that...
As for offence...this is where we were lacking, we have 3 of the best NH talents in Murray, Earls and Carberry away at the world cup, to suggest that they won't be able to get up to speed with new calls is more than laughable.
Qualifying from our group will not be the problem, it's the final bit of detail to go from semi final to final is what we need to find

Getting up to speed with calls is one thing. Execution of moves with minimal training as a group with potentially new coaching ideas is a very different thing altogether.

Murray Carbery Farrell Earls Conway could all be at the RWC. That's 5 of your first choice 7 starting backs

Leinster were very poor v Ulster on the back of the 6n having worked all season with the coaches. Munster will have at least 2 new coaches and are likely 2nd/3rd seeds.

A group of Saracens Munster Clermont/Toulouse/Racing is very possible. Qualifying from a group like that would be problematic

Erik Shun

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Getting up to speed with calls is one thing. Execution of moves with minimal training as a group with potentially new coaching ideas is a very different thing altogether.

Murray Carbery Farrell Earls Conway could all be at the RWC. That's 5 of your first choice 7 starting backs

Leinster were very poor v Ulster on the back of the 6n having worked all season with the coaches. Munster will have at least 2 new coaches and are likely 2nd/3rd seeds.

A group of Saracens Munster Clermont/Toulouse/Racing is very possible. Qualifying from a group like that would be problematic

I do like how some people are now including Farrell and Conway as part of our world cup squad when yesterday, some people were saying that they wouldn't even make the plane!

You seem to be trying to create issues and highly unlikely scenarios ...and expect people to take it seriously...I'm sorry, but Carbery came into the setup without any issues...and had only made his first start with Murray towards the middle of December!... arrivals back into the squad after the world cup won't be an issue

Former Former

Munster will do very well during the RWC. They have an army of guys who can perform at Pro14 level.

They don't have enough players who can perform at the next level up. That's the problem.

Burkie1203

Erik Shun wrote: »

I do like how some people are now including Farrell and Conway as part of our world cup squad when yesterday, some people were saying that they wouldn't even make the plane!

You seem to be trying to create issues and highly unlikely scenarios ...and expect people to take it seriously...I'm sorry, but Carbery came into the setup without any issues...and had only made his first start with Murray towards the middle of December!... arrivals back into the squad after the world cup won't be an issue

Between initial 31 man squad and call ups it's entirely possible for those 5 to be in Japan at some stage. They are likely to come back into a Munster set up with two new coaches with new ideas especially on attack.

My initial post on the subject named those 5.

There will be 2 new coaches. That's definite.

There will be at least 3 (Murray, Carbery, Earls) and probably 4 (Farrell) backs in the 31 man squad with a 5th (Conway) a possibility. That's not highly unlikely, that's very realistic


Carbery spent the entire pre season with Munster last year so its not comparable. He would have trained daily with the players and when Murray returned they would have trained a lot together and with the same coaches.

Erik Shun

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Between initial 31 man squad and call ups it's entirely possible for those 5 to be in Japan at some stage. They are likely to come back into a Munster set up with two new coaches with new ideas especially on attack.

My initial post on the subject named those 5.

There will be 2 new coaches. That's definite.

There will be at least 3 (Murray, Carbery, Earls) and probably 4 (Farrell) backs in the 31 man squad with a 5th (Conway) a possibility. That's not highly unlikely, that's very realistic


Carbery spent the entire pre season with Munster last year so its not comparable. He would have trained daily with the players and when Murray returned they would have trained a lot together and with the same coaches.

It's looking like 1 new coach at the moment

Burkie1203

Erik Shun wrote: »

It's looking like 1 new coach at the moment

Rob Penney spent 2 seasons trying to get Munster players to play differently and it wasn't a success. But some new lad will work wonders in 2 weeks ?

Munster need to get lucky with the HC draw because end up as third seeds and it could become a nightmare

Erik Shun

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Rob Penney spent 2 seasons trying to get Munster players to play differently and it wasn't a success. But some new lad will work wonders in 2 weeks ?

Munster need to get lucky with the HC draw because end up as third seeds and it could become a nightmare

You're looking to create problems that don't exist, as it stands we are tier 2 seeds for next season (admittedly by my mental reckoning)... bringing up Penney has no bearing on the situation as it was a completely new coaching ticket in its entirety..that's not happening here

Buer

Erik Shun wrote:

You're looking to create problems that don't exist, as it stands we are tier 2 seeds for next season (admittedly by my mental reckoning)... bringing up Penney has no bearing on the situation as it was a completely new coaching ticket in its entirety..that's not happening here

Tier 2 but possibly tier 3 as happened this season. Castres were top seeds. Exeter were second seeds and Munster were drawn into pot 3 on the day (I think).

Former Former

Buer wrote: »

Tier 2 but possibly tier 3 as happened this season. Castres were top seeds. Exeter were second seeds and Munster were drawn into pot 3 on the day (I think).

Munster will definitely be in pot two because they got more points than Ulster so are the third Pro14 qualifier.

Last year they were fourth because of fewer points than Scarlets.

yerrahbah

Munster gave away too many penalties during the game edition 393.

Serous amount of knock ons too.

I'd expect we will get in two coaches (possibly three), if we can hang onto the ball better and be less predictable in attack then we will hopefully see less penalties conceded.


Playing Leinster in the RDS was always going to be an uphill battle, finishing 2nd instead of 1st in the conference was a real killer

aloooof

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Saracens, Benetton and Leinster. 240 minutes of knockout rugby in the last 5 weeks and 1 try

Hadn't realised that, that's pretty damning...

troyzer

Former Former wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

Tier 2 but possibly tier 3 as happened this season. Castres were top seeds. Exeter were second seeds and Munster were drawn into pot 3 on the day (I think).

Munster will definitely be in pot two because they got more points than Ulster so are the third Pro14 qualifier.

Last year they were fourth because of fewer points than Scarlets.

Well that's an improvement on last year at least. A higher seed could be crucial.

kuang1

I dunno lads. I think we're all forgetting the obvious here...

Munster property prices aren't quite yet back to 2008 levels.
Getting there though.

Heineken Cup back in Limerick in May 2021.

fonecrusher1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Very strange move by all to let Fla and Felix go

Its not like Van Graan walked in one day and said right lads you can go when you want.

They were offered contracts but declined to continue their stay with Munster. That's the fact. Gutted to see Flannery go. Jones was backs / attack coach for over 2 years and Munster have steadily gotten worse in that area IMO. New thinking / vision needed from new coaches. If it was just Jones going I'd be much happier about the whole business.

mun1

Think the munster signings over the last few years haven’t made the impact required, Clote, Klyne, carberry, etc while the leinsterboys imports: Cronin, fardy, Lowe, Henshaw, JPG and a few others had had a positive impact on their team.
Think the coaching setup obviously needs to improve as it isn’t working .

Don’t forget Leinster were in dire straits a few years back before the IRFU foisted Graham Henry and Lancaster on Leinster. Hopefully they can spend the same money on munster

The Lost Sheep

mun1 wrote: »

Think the munster signings over the last few years haven’t made the impact required, Clote, Klyne, carberry, etc while the leinsterboys imports: Cronin, fardy, Lowe, Henshaw, JPG and a few others had had a positive impact on their team.
Think the coaching setup obviously needs to improve as it isn’t working .

Don’t forget Leinster were in dire straits a few years back before the IRFU foisted Graham Henry and Lancaster on Leinster. Hopefully they can spend the same money on munster

Carbery and Kleyn have made a good enough impact and if you're going back to when Cronin was signed for Leinster you can talk of plenty others... he's there a decade at this stage
It cant simply be coaching set up as its same things over and over that are reason Munster are still only getting to semis and not finals.