Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Miley Byrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585094#Comment_119585094

I actually should have said "nobody with a bit of cop-on" is suggesting there will be league games on in PUC

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585284#Comment_119585284

2 cases in point

Ireland are contracted to play all home games at Landsdowne Road due to Aviva sponsorship. The last game that didn't happen is when we played Fiji in 2012 in Thomond in an "uncapped" match and I think we played the Babas since then outside of the Aviva which would naturally be uncapped

When Cheetahs and Kings joined the Pro12/14/URC Musgrave park retained the full compliment of it's 4 matches while Thomond lost one every second year. That was due to the sponsorship from some newspaper that I can't refuse to remember the name of

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585284#Comment_119585284

The point is, like all advertising you pay for the rights based on an estimated level of exposure, the number of games influences that estimate but doesnt in itself have with it any guarantee that it wont change or at least it should not as that would be poor management.

Itxa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119585094#Comment_119585094

I don’t see why a South African team in the URC wouldn’t be held there provided the first couple of forays show a high demand. Cork people have been travelling to Limerick for years to support and a return favour isn’t out of the question for a couple (or more) of games every season.

And before people call me out this isn’t and shouldn’t descend into a Cork V Limerick thing (like some youthful posters here have been easily led into believing) I think the vast majority of fans in Limerick would be excited by the prospect of PUC matches.

And this gripe about season ticket holders not getting value for their money, please, there is goodwill in the province between both cities and I’m sure prospects of evolution and expansion will be met with optimistic and ambitious thoughts and not people turning on each other and tearing each other apart for a bigger slice of the pie.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586053#Comment_119586053

I don’t see why a South African team in the URC wouldn’t be held there provided the first couple of forays show a high demand.

There's an enormous difference between playing a showpiece match vs South Africa and, say, a URC match vs the Bulls.

Cork people have been travelling to Limerick for years to support and a return favour isn’t out of the question for a couple (or more) of games every season.

It sounds like you're not aware 3 games are played in Musgrave Park every season? Which Limerick people I know travel to. Ironcially, given your first statement, they're playing the Lions there this season.

And this gripe about season ticket holders not getting value for their money, please, there is goodwill in the province between both cities...

The value for money argument in the URC thread had absoltely nothing at all to do with Cork v Limerick, PuC, Musgrave, lack of good will etc. You're just making stuff up now.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586217#Comment_119586217

It sounds like you're not aware 3 games are played in Musgrave Park every season? - i think most people's problem is that when the celtic league started it was 5, usually with a big game against leinster as part of that. previous to that one of the european pool games would be there too. 2/3 games against minnows each season isnt much compared to what was previously there

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586276#Comment_119586276

Yep, I think that's completely fair tbh. Just the way the OP phrased it made it sound like he wasn't aware any games were played there.

Itxa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586217#Comment_119586217

I was aware that games were played in Musgrave Park every season but there a big difference between playing in Musgrave for a URC match and PUC for a bigger match. It’s like night and day the demand a big game in PUC would generate compared to URC in Musgrave.

And I’m sure the Cork faithful are aware they wouldn’t be keeping the Musgrave games if three bigger games were moved to PUC.

The season ticket argument was used earlier in this thread and honestly I think it’s a cop out and people looking for a gripe and ways to stir the pot between Cork and Limerick. I’m sure the Limerick supporters could see the positives to moving into a bigger ground for bigger games not least the anticipation and huge outpouring of emotion on game day.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586425#Comment_119586425

It’s like night and day the demand a big game in PUC would generate compared to URC in Musgrave.

Little disagreement here. But your suggestion of a URC SA team is not in any way, shape or form a big game.

Itxa

I can guarantee you the excitement generated by the stadium factor would drive up demand. And I can see that lasting.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586650#Comment_119586650

It's not a question of whether it would drive up demand. (It would).

It's whether it would drive up demand sufficiently. (I don't think it would; a game against the Stormers or Bulls isn't gonna cut it).

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586650#Comment_119586650

i disagree about it lasting tbh. as much as i want more games in cork, i think PuC would only really be suitable for the odd game against leinster and euro knockout games (maybe URC knockouts or finals too), with a game against a touring team thrown in every few years too. i think the novelty factor is helping sell tickets for this game, might have worked for a league game too but i would think if munster were to play 'normal' games there on the regular then they wouldnt get as much interest.

5 games in musgrave a season, use PuC for euro QFs/SFs and a christmas game v leinster every second season. maybe a euro or URC final in PuC someday too but i suppose the timing would be getting close to the GAA season

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119586276#Comment_119586276

In the early years of the Celtic league Musgrave had 8k capacity and Thomond had 14k The European game was usually against an Italian side who qualified through their own league and Musgrave was used to host the non-sold out Munster V Leinster game because Thomond was full with local limerick club derby games, usually involving Shannon and Young Munster

A lot of limerick people would be happy to see Munster play in PuC more frequently if it means more money for Munster through increased ticket sales. Question is would there be much more in the way of ticket sales

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587661#Comment_119587661

im not disputing that (maybe the part about leinster games being in musgrave due to AIL games) but it still remains that there were more games in musgrave in the past, 2 of which would now be considered big now (leinster and euro pool game), even if they might not have been at the time. URC games should be split between thomond and musgrave equally if all of the european pool games are to be in thomond. then use PuC for euro knockout games and maybe URC knockouts if the demand were there. something like that would be fairest imo

i wouldnt be advocating regular use of PuC for URC games, apart from maybe a leinster game every two or three years. if the SA game wasnt happening then maybe a URC game would have done well for the novelty factor but i would think now a game PuC would need some sort of selling point to be a success. that is, unless they were to not open the whole stadium but i dont think PuC is set up for that too well

phog

Posters looking for more games in Musgrave Park need to do the sums. Where will Munster make up the shortfall of income from moving from Thomond Park to Musgrave Park

Posters talking about Munster v Leinster being played there was in the same era when the return fixture was held in Donnybrook.

Ticket sales have demanded that these matches are held in a stadium with a bigger capacity than around 8k fans.

Munster rate the Leinster match in Thomond Park on par with ERC pool games from a pricing and corporate packaging pov.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587735#Comment_119587735

maybe some of us think that there are other considerations apart from purely financial reasons?

leinster moved to the RDS in 2005, munster played leinster in musgrave 3 times after that from what i remember (and not since 2007 if im correct)

if the leinster game is on par with a euro game then surely it would make sense to look into moving it to PuC every so often?

nobody is saying move all the games to cork, but an extra 2 or so games per year shouldnt break the bank

Itxa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582658#Comment_119582658

What school is that then? Michaels. Dawson has a son there. Flooding the Leinster team with sub par players from Michaels was some sort of charity case to compensate past pupils like myself who actually laid the tracks for these “stars”. They’re nothing of the sort. How many of them have made the Leinster first team out of what 20? 2 of them?

 Even to this day there are lads like Clegg on here from your school, that bastion of Catholicism, lauding sub par players like Ryan who wasn’t even considered in the top six second row in the British and Irish Lions tour! Yet he is lauded on here? And Kelleher, second best to Sheehan currently but backed by people from your school. It’s pity. It’s the worst kind of administration going in the branch never mind the IRFU.

I do not take it as compensation. It is not adequate reparation for the sh1t that gone down in this sh1t hole country for the last twenty years. You can’t pay us back, you won’t pay us back, and we won’t accept it. So time to buckle up and keep my mouth shut. I leave it to the commies to run Leinster as they see fit. And this Putin like act of cooperation. I don’t accept it. 69 of 140 trophies isn’t cooperation. It’s absolute savage like destruction of any competition on this island. That’s how your bullshyte administration is run in the Branch and IRFU. So don’t give me sh1te about Michaels.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587814#Comment_119587814

It does majorly affect the finances though and Munster are quite unique in keeping multiple grounds especially with northern hemisphere sides.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587856#Comment_119587856

Wow 😆

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588017#Comment_119588017

He was jealous of the cork v Limerick debate so weighed in with a debate on schools and who’s is best. A debate I’m sure most adults feel is definitely worth having.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587814#Comment_119587814

Yes, yes I said in an era not the exact same years.

Do you actually think a sponsor of Thomond Park would like to see Munster move their top league game to Cork?

Personally, I think Munster have already diluted the attraction of sponsoring the stadium by not hosting all their pool games there, they'll hardly go and move their biggest league earner once a sponsor is on board.

timothydec77

You mean URC and Euro pool games all in Thomond?

I don't think that would work.

If those games are moved to Limerick. Wouldn't season ticket prices increase too.

I definitely couldn't afford to go to 11 games in Limerick. Both time wise and money wise.

I would either give up or watch on TV.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588250#Comment_119588250

You mean URC and Euro pool games all in Thomond?

If this is directed at me, no, I don't mean that at all. I fully accept and understand why Munster want to play games in Musgrave Park.

But I can't see Munster selling the naming rights to Thomond Park and then diluting the package by moving marquee games to Cork. Can you?

I think anything other than a HCC knockout game or game against a touring side in PuC is a pipedream.

Just had a quick look at the 2018/2019 seasons attendance as it would be the last full season where Covid wouldn't have an impact on numbers.

In total, Munster played at home 16 times, 6 in Musgrave Park (admittedly 2 were Pre-Season Friendlies) and 10 times at Thomond Park.

Cork's 4 league games were sell outs at 8,008 attendees. Thomond Park's average attendance over the 10 games was 18,126, only two of these were sell outs (Leinster at Christmas and Exeter in the HCC).

To be honest, I think the reason Leinster at Christmas does so well is due to the fact the Races are on in Limerick that day. I'm roughly an hour from Limerick and people I know would head off that morning by bus, head to the races in Limerick, into TP then afterwards for the match and out in Limerick for the night afterwards. The same people wouldn't go to any other fixture throughout the year.

Even taking out the two sell out games, the average was 16,090, this is over twice the capacity of Musgrave Park in its current form. This to me would justify the majority of games taking place in TP.

I know the argument will be made that all 4 in Cork sold out and if the stadium was bigger, what would attend?

The only way I could see a 50/50 split of games would be if Musgrave Park was developed into a 15-18,000 capacity ground.

As has been pointed out, Munster don't sell out Thomond Park for run-of-the-mill HEC group games, it would be financial suicide to rent a stadium at a reported €200k when you already have a ground that could easily accommodate the demand.

Lost Ormond

I dont think it is anything to do with the races in Limerick from experience of working at the races and the game at christmas over the years. More its christmas and its a chance to get out of house and if races werent on the crowd would still be excellent. races arent a factor at all

timothydec77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588313#Comment_119588313

The European group games have been greatly devalued due to change in competition. 16 out 24 isn't much of an achievement.

The inter provincial are reduced by squad rotation.

In short these games most likely won't be played in Cork.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588695#Comment_119588695

Complete aside here, but with regards the restructure, I really enjoyed the 2-legged Round of 16 knock-out stage, after initialy being sceptical about it.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119587864#Comment_119587864

To be fair munster are also quite unique in that they play outside of their largest population base within their catchment area. It would be odd if leinster played in wexford

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588748#Comment_119588748

Munster is also in a unique situation in that its the only province with more than one city. (Yes, I know there's Kilkenny, but people from Kilkenny don't even see that as a real city).

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588780#Comment_119588780

Yeah let's just pretend Derry and Newry don't exist?

What makes us unique is that we have our main stadium in a city that is not the provincial capital. Reason being that in the past there was no appetite for rugby in Cork