Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666311#Comment_119666311

I was reading that earlier, don't think I've ever read an article where a manager slammed a performance by his own team so badly. His words echo a lot of what Munster supporters feel I think

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666367#Comment_119666367

Yeah, agreed.

I'd get it's the start of the season, but it's the start of the season for everyone, and while he's a new head coach, he's been part of the ticket for a long time. The Dragons are going through even more turbulence in their coaching ticket, and are objectively the worst team in the league.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666388#Comment_119666388

 don't think I've ever read an article where a manager slammed a performance by his own team so badly.

you didnt read dean ryan last weekend then.....

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666404#Comment_119666404

Not before making that post I didn't

Reading it now on BBC sport though it looks like the players responded well to his comments. Hopefully we can do the same next weekend

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666404#Comment_119666404

I've only seen the first half of the match (and didn't think Munster were particularly bad), but I think Dragons got a reaction from that and his departure this week.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666438#Comment_119666438

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666442#Comment_119666442

we dont know if the players responded to his criticism, or to his departure......

anyway, regarding Rowntree's comments, i dont read anything at all controversial or explosive in them at all.

hes a straight talking guy who gave his opinion on where munster lost the game.

he did not say anything as 'player slamming' as "We've got supposed talent in that side, but I don't see it at the moment"

Former Former Former

It's only two games in, you're always trying to integrate guys who are at different stages of preparation and POM's wedding probably set a few lads back a week on the training regime...

No need to panic at this stage and Zebre should be the ideal game for getting back on the horse before the trip to Connacht.

molloyjh

I wasn’t that concerned about Munsters results really. 12 years ago Leinster lost to Benetton on their way to a HEC win at the end of the season. Going into the Munster game in Oct 2010 there was a lot of negativity around Joe and Leinster. And it turned around almost overnight. 2 games at the start of a new coaching set-up are not necessarily meaningful at all. Always best to give everyone and everything time to settle down and see where they are at in a few months.

That said, I’d be somewhat concerned about Rowntrees comments above. Coaches should have a good sense from training where the teamed that they named is at. Being disappointed with performances or elements of them is to be expected at this point of the season to some degree. But being shocked isn’t. He makes it sound like he didn’t see that performance coming at all. But he should have at least had a suspicion that it could. It would make you question what they are doing in training that a performance like that is completely unforeseen.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666550#Comment_119666550

No need to panic, but with the competitiveness of the league and playoff structure, some damage has already been done. Munster will need a couple of big results in SA or interpros to make up for it.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666190#Comment_119666190

You had two choices:

1. Admit you were incorrect on the tax rebate
2. Keep your head down and hope it might blow over

but you went with the wum option and fair play for calling yourself out on this as it saves us all taking you serious in future.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666655#Comment_119666655

Some damage has definitely been done - To be involved in play-offs and hoping for home advantage you can afford to lose maybe 5 or 6 games over the course of the season.

Given the upcoming run of fixtures it's not a wild stretch to say that Munster could have 4 losses on board by Round 6 which makes the rest of the season a very tough road indeed.

Dubinusa

It's early days! But, it's worrying! I think the tour to SA will hurt Munster. There's a lot of average lads holding down spots in Munster!

And Zebo is one! Hesout of shape, slow and any x factor left is probably xcessive pastries. Xcessive poor work habits. He's surely got to at least look like a back 3 player and make some effort! If not, The backroom team is shocking! Archer is another one who's bang average! John Ryan was let go and Archer retained! Factor in the poopstorm with Chris Farrell and the Munster delegation to play poor sides in SA and its not looking rosy. Last year Cloete was played a lot, despite the fact that he's nothing special. Kendellen ,Hodson and the new u19 lad should be fast tracked . By that, I mean they should be starting these matches.

Rowntree is in a bad position already. JVG has left Munster worse off that when he took over. If Rowntree is selecting Archer, Zebo and Goggin well things are not good. Interesting that Carberry hasn't offered anything special again! An infusion of young hungry lads is needed. It will light a fire under the regular lads!

Munster fans should be pissed off! It's more and more shyte! Systems can't change until the lads are ready! I think Fekitoa will turn it around. It's early days for him. This week's game should be a bonus point win! Munster should dominate this one!

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666786#Comment_119666786

Zebo isnt as bad as some are making out. Backroom team average? How?

Archer should have been phased out and ideally will be with Salanoa/Knox/AN Other replacing him but these young pretenders have had issues staying fit...

Who is Hodson??

Rowntree isnt in a bad position already. Its not even the end of September with 2 games played.

aloooof

John Ryan was let go and Archer retained!

I think it’s likely Archer is on a lower salary than Ryan would’ve been on, which influenced this decision.

Last year Cloete was played a lot, despite the fact that he's nothing special. Kendellen ,Hodson and the new u19 lad should be fast tracked

He wasn’t; the same thing was said on here last season but Kendellen and Hodnett both played more than him last season.

If Rowntree is selecting Archer, Zebo and Goggin well things are not good.

The 10 players on the Emerging Ireland tour weren’t available, before you even mention injuries. Every team needs squad players.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666786#Comment_119666786

I don't mean to be rude here, but would you mind not punctuating virtually every sentence with an exclamation mark?

I don't agree on the backroom team being average. Leamy and Prendergast are really highly regarded coaches, who Leinster & Racing didn't want to lose.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666786#Comment_119666786

Some clueless stuff in there. You start by admitting that the Emerging Ireland tour will badly affect Munster then demand that young players who aren't available because of said tour (and actually started last week) should be playing. Kendellen started 10 games and came off the bench 10 times last season. Compared to Cloetes 7 starts & 4 subs. Hodnett (do try to get his name right), missed 8 weeks of the last season injured, yet started 9 and came off the bench 7 times.

And why was Goggin playing? Well probably because none of Farrell, Frisch, Scannell or Daly were available. He was playing for the A team last week.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666786#Comment_119666786

Emerging Ireland tour will affect the teams with the fewest internationals most, that would be Connacht at the moment, not Munster

Not that our internationals managed to prove their worth but I'm not sure you can really blame the coaches on this one either as if there was that amount of balls dropped, missed tackles, penalties given away etc on the training ground then that team we saw on Sunday wouldn't have been in Wales

This might not be a popular opinion but I think the problem is in the heads and minds of the players. They obviously have the talent and the skills as we have seen them before. They need to get their heads sorted and Munster fans can help by going to Musgrave Park on Saturday and push their team to believing they can be winners again

As a wise man once told me, it's always darkest before the light returns

leakyboots

Tis early in the season and a new coaching ticket, not time to panic yet.

On the Zebo thing, wow, some pile on, a few nasty personal comments too which aren't really needed. I was watching on my phone and haven't watched it back but my memory is of him getting beaten on the outside (which happens) and did he not get back and make the tackle on the 22? Or am I misremembering and mixing up with another tackle he made very soon after? As others said, he's not why we lost at all.

What annoyed me most was we didn't learn our lesson from the previous week and protect our own ball well enough, and handling errors. We seem to be trying to have minimal players defending our offensive rucks, need more bodies in there. Pat Lam had Connacht as the best passing team in the league after a spell, we should be aspiring to that level.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667352#Comment_119667352

Absolutely spot on post. On this:

Pat Lam had Connacht as the best passing team in the league after a spell, we should be aspiring to that level.

Some people forget it took Pat Lam 3 years before he had Connacht playing like that. Prendy’s been back for 2 games, like.

And the almost-gleeful “rock bottom” stuff is way over the top. We had worse games last season, like that awful display against Connacht.

Dubinusa

Cloete started the big games? Zebo is out of shape, that's the backroom staff and Zebos responsibility. Hodnett and Kendellen were far superpowers to Cloete and at a very early age.

On Zebo, he may be a potential awful signing. He looks like a prop! Why? Why is Archer on less money than Ryan? Would it make a difference?

Munster will no doubt improve. I think that in a couple of years with the young lads getting time, they will win silverware

Dragons beat Munster as did Cardiff. When does that happen the Munster lose 2 straight to the regions?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667707#Comment_119667707

Cloete started the big games?

He really didn’t. Didn’t start a single knock out game between Exeter x2, Toulouse and Ulster.

On Zebo, he may be a potential awful signing.

Why? He got 2 tries on his return debut last season. He’s a squad player now.

Why is Archer on less money than Ryan?Would it make a difference?

Post-covid, it absolutely would be a consideration.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667811#Comment_119667811

Don't be bringing facts into a discussion as they get in the way of a good moan

Cookiemunster

Cloete started 2 out of 6 interpros and didn't appear in Europe, even off the bench. But yeah, he started big games....

Hodnett on the other hand appeared in every European game except Toulouse where he was injured. He started 4 of them. He started both interpros he was available for.

Maybe you should do a quite simple bit of research before spouting your nonsense.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667828#Comment_119667828

Facts are Munster resigned a poor shadow of a player! Another fact, they tried to extend JVG. It's a fact the trophy cabinet is bare.

But, they can turn it around. The quality if recent u20's is better than the other provinces, imo. If Rowntree can do a good job, Munster should be very formidable.

That's what the union needs! I can see Munster and Ulster providing a good chunk of the national team in a few years. Like Farrell, Rowntree should be given time. I hope he can make Munster a champion team.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667858#Comment_119667858

Keep going, keep going, keep going, you will eventually hit a target of one correct fact.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667858#Comment_119667858

It's a fact the trophy cabinet is bare.

Believe me, Munster fans more than anyone are aware of this…

I think a reason for the defensiveness of other posters is because, last season, this thread and Munster match threads turned into a bit of a sh*tshow at times, often with factual inaccuracies, and sometimes with posters of other Provinces only appearing after poor Munster performances and being pretty silent after good ones.

It was pretty tiresome at times.

The “Munster don’t back youth” trope was a prime example, which I’d wager has fed into what you thought about Cloete’s appearances.

But it’s just not backed up the the facts.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667923#Comment_119667923

So phone, the cupboard contains recent silverware? Lol. Perennial late to the dance!

But, if fans are happy with the same old Archer etc.

Dubinusa

Correction... phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667971#Comment_119667971

Munster are better at backing youth. There's no doubt. The quality in the pack alone is great. I think the new Munster players will be better than the ones over the last 6 years.

The branch itself, has made poor decisions. JVG should have been shown the door immediately.

Of all the provinces, Munster pack the best attendances? Maybe Ulster push past them. The 40k in Lansdowne last season was astounding on a week's or 10 days notice. The salary issues shouldn't be a factor if it's a choice of Archer or Ryan, imo.

I see Kendellen as being a 50 cap international. Seriously good young player. Ahern will grab a bag of caps too, my opinion. Hodnett and Wycherly Jr could be regular national team players and Casey has the pole position to be the #9 for a while.

How to harness these boys with the players of today? If Lancaster was going south west to Limerick, I would think Munster would be a top 3 club team in Europe. I hope Rowntree makes the right decisions and Munster get to the next level. But, it's not going to happen with the current rotund Zebo. Or Archer, for that matter.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667395#Comment_119667395

I think we need to stop blaming the coaching ticket and admit we probably need players to step up. Unless the coaches are instructing the players to miss tackles and drop balls, which I highly doubt they are

Might sound unpopular but I think we need to do a cull of players and that includes some big names. The performance the babys gave over in Wasps last season (Champions cup round 1) is what we need more of

Lsdrugbyfan

Like who?