Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Pete_Cavan

I know he thought he was keeping his options open but I think signing the one year contract last year was a stupid decision by Healy. He should have made his decision last year and signed a two year contract in Ireland or Scotland and he would have been better off than he is now. Changing horses midstream can sometimes be the smart thing to do but he has done it at the wrong time.

It is very unlikely that he goes to RWC23 now for either nation, if he was in Scotland now there is a good chance he would be in their RWC squad given the limited options they have. Instead, he will probably have to wait until 24 for a meaningful shot with Scotland (wouldn't surprise me if they cap him in a WRC warm up game just to tie him in). At that stage, Ireland will need a successor to Sexton for the next WC cycle. Carbery might not be given that role as he will be 32 in 27 and has a poor injury profile. Ross Byrne is same age as Carbery, he may have a renaissance in the second half of his career but to date his international credentials are poor. Crowley's biggest weakness is his flexibility, he doesn't wear 10 often enough and may ultimately end up in a different position.

If he stayed in Munster, Healy could certainly build his way into the reckoning for 6N24 with Ireland over the next 12 months, and from there to RWC27. Instead, he will likely be used sparingly by Munster this season so a largely wasted season. He will start from the bottom of the pile in Scotland next season (albeit a poor pile) having missed a WC. If at the end of the 23/24 season he hadn't progressed with Ireland, then would be the time to make the move to Scotland.

sydthebeat

Well if the rumour is correct that Healy was selected to go on the emerging Ireland tour, but Munster insisted on keeping him and offered Crowley instead, then he was in fact on the radar at national level.

which makes complete sense in that Healy was way more experienced than crowley, so munster losing their two most experienced 10s for IIRC was 3 URC games was completely unfair.

strangely though after crowley came back from the EI tour, Healy was sidelined despite playing in the 3 games effected by the EI tour.

Might Healy have been peeved off that that national chance for him was removed from him by Munster?

Might that have coloured the negotiations which led him to talk to both glasgow and edinburgh?

Its certainly a possibility.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067835#Comment_120067835

You could equally look at it and say it further demonstrates what a sh*t, no-win position the EI tour put Munster in, given the extent of the short notice.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067869#Comment_120067869

i have already stated, and agree, that munster were put into a 'completely unfair' position.

stephen_n

So it’s the IRFU and Andy Farrell’s fault Healy is leaving? We better get Flannery in camp soon so.

We can’t cap every player with international aspirations or bring them into camps. Just to make sure they don’t leave. Healy has consistently hedged his bets by taking one year contracts. He sees an easier pathway to international squads in Scotland. Not surprising given what’s ahead of him and he’s taking it. That’s neither Munster or the IRFU’s fault. Fair play to him for backing himself and wanting to play international.

As things stand in his career, he’s a less talented RB. So was unlikely to get a meaningful look in with Ireland.

Former Former Former

He's leaving because he's third choice for Munster. And a pretty distant third choice, if the last two months are any indication. No other reason. Healy going on the EI tour wouldn't have changed that, it would have accelerated it.

He's leaving because he doesn't want to be third choice for his province and who can blame him? He is going to Edinburgh for regular URC game time, not for test rugby.

It's easy for Rowntree to say he's disappointed and he wanted to keep him, but the proof of the pudding is in the selections and game minutes. He might think Healy is great, but he thinks Carbery and Crowley are better, and that's his job. You simply cannot argue that the pecking order is anything but Carbery-Crowley-Healy.

The words "Ireland" and "IRFU" shouldn't be in the conversation tbh.

theVersatile

Daly speaking a lot in the media this week. Wonder if he might get a run at fullback this weekend with Nash and Campbell on the wings. Haley's could probably do with the rest, as outstanding as he's been.

Cookiemunster

Haley didn't play against Leinster.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067934#Comment_120067934

I agree entirely; it's no more the IRFU's fault that it is Munster's fault, was my point.

He's decided to take an opportunity elsewhere. Good for him; you'd wish him all the best.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/preview/team-named-munster-side-to-face-lions-in-cork/#preview

Team named:

Munster: Mike Haley; Shane Daly, Malakai Fekitoa, Rory Scannell, Liam Coombes; Ben Healy, Paddy Patterson; Josh Wycherley, Diarmuid Barron, Roman Salanoa; Jean Kleyn, Gavin Coombes; Jack O’Donoghue (C), John Hodnett, Alex Kendellen.

Replacements: Scott Buckley, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Cian Hurley, Jack O’Sullivan, Conor Murray, Dan Goggin, Patrick Campbell.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068494#Comment_120068494

rory scannell covering 10 from on field?

expect a Ben Healy MOTM award at the end of the game IMO

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067977#Comment_120067977

Ben is leaving because he has ambitions to play international rugby and has been overlooked here at home.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068494#Comment_120068494

Great to have Kleyn available again for this match.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068563#Comment_120068563

No further update on Kiran McDonald arm injury, so we are very lucky to have Kleyn, he's our MVP at the moment.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068583#Comment_120068583

Definitely, Kleyn is due a break but with so many lock injuries he's our go to man at the moment

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068554#Comment_120068554

He wasn’t overlooked, he simply wasn’t good enough to force his way into the equation. Which is why he is third choice at Munster. Overlooked would suggest he was demanding inclusion but was ignored. Which was never the case.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068554#Comment_120068554

Indeed, hard to have any hope of being an international when overlooked by your province.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068583#Comment_120068583

Completely, he's so robust and is having a very good season on top of that too. Was delighted for him with a rare man-of-the-match award a few weeks ago too, but it's seldom he doesn't put in a shift.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068658#Comment_120068658

This was discussed yesterday , he was playing for his province right up to the AIs, so he was in fact overlooked for the 6Ns, the summer tour and the AIs.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068821#Comment_120068821

but not emerging ireland.....

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068821#Comment_120068821

So were Carty, Fitzgerald, Madigan and Burns. So overlooked means not good enough?

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068835#Comment_120068835

You've heard a rumour that he was picked, but Munster didn't want him to go.

However I've heard it said elsewhere that he was never picked for the EI tour and that, not Munster requesting he stayed behind, was the reason he wasn't involved.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068865#Comment_120068865

Not being picked from the EI tour was a borderline mark of respect - a reference to the fact that he was needed by Munster during that period. The players who were selected were predominantly third choice guys at their provinces (with a small few very limited exceptions) to minimise disruption for the provinces.

As another posted - I doubt this would have turned out any better for him if he'd gone to SA and Crowley stayed home and played for Munster in those games.

He's fallen behind Crowley because Crowley is outplaying and looks the better player, with a higher long-term ceiling.

Crowley is also the guy who's style of play better fits how Ireland play and how Mike Prendergast seems to want Munster to play.

fitzgea1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068296#Comment_120068296

Exactly. It's not anyone's fault, it's life, people move on. I'd imagine clubs have to choose between 2nd and 3rd choice players every year, would be much worse if it was Crowley going. I like Healy but if we want to get to a point where we're winning European Cups and URCs, then I feel Crowley has the most potential for that.

The good thing is that there's no debate around who's the back up to Carberry. Crowley will be getting a lot of game time at 10 in the next 12 months. It's up to him now to take his chance.

Would be great to see Crowley vs Healy for Ireland and Scotland in the 2024 Six Nations😄

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067835#Comment_120067835

Crowley getting more opportunities than healy when he came back kind of tells me that rumour is prob not true.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069626#Comment_120069626

rumour is too small a word for this when it was publicly said outright in podcasts.

and no, what youve said above has no correlation with anything. Healy wasnt good when Crowley was away with EI. Crowley played well in SA and earned a shot at the jersey when he returned. Coincidentally Carbery returned to fitness and regained the 10 shirt. Crowleys "more opportunities" were from 15 and 12

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068660#Comment_120068660

It's gas how the narrative keeps changing. Earlier in the year the narrative was Crowley shouldn't get preference over Frawley because he was 3rd choice at Munster. Now it's Healy shouldn't have expected an opportunity with Ireland because he is 3rd choice at Munster.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069657#Comment_120069657

When Carberry was not playing ten, crowley has started including in big games. Its only this week when they seem to be wholesale resting players (questionable decision btw) that healy starts.

Anyway, in terms of IRFU pecking order.. they dont pick guys like healy. They very reluctantly picked ross byrne behind crowley and he is a very similar (but better) player to Healy. Healy isnt their type.

Akrasia

The selection against Lions tomorrow is heavily rotated and limited by injury.

Not having any locks or out halves on the bench is a worry but hopefully the Lions are put off by the travelling and crappy weather conditions that are forecast for tomorrow evening

Poor Gavin Coombes and Kleyn are being flogged. If either picks up an injury tomorrow we're in big trouble

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069681#Comment_120069681

Those 'narratives' look pretty similar to me, tbh, but more importantly, "narratives" don't impact team selection, national or provincial, one bit.

Looking purely at selections, we have a guy who is third choice for his province and never looked at by the national side (and by my count, Farrell has capped six different out-halves, plus Frawley for Ireland XV) - I have to ask, what's the big deal?