Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

phog

I guess it's ok to sh!t all over the Munster thread/player, heaven forbid it happens elsewhere.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767585#Comment_120767585

The best we can do is speculate.

And like it said, even if POC did plump for Treadwell over him, I think that’s a mistake too.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767625#Comment_120767625

The peak value of Snyman may be something, but I would have thought Kleyn would be the better player to keep for a season as, this pre-RWC squad aside, I don't think he'll be away with SA during the off-season etc.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767678#Comment_120767678

He's just left it too late. No one was breaking into the squad at this point in time more than likely. These things happen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767678#Comment_120767678

Yeah, but you're only replying and debating with the people who claim POC did have input into the decision, and not taking to task those who are suggesting he had no input or limited input. It's once again a matter of consistency.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767583#Comment_120767583

I can see your side on that but it’s frustrating from this side of the fence too, FFF.

We had some fairly mediocre abuse of Ringrose called “sh*ttin all over” him.

Criticism of some selections labelled “abuse” even tho, imo, there were credible arguments for most.

Where does “Kleyn isn’t good enough / didn’t deserve it” come on that spectrum?

Can you see why some Munster posters might feel strongly about it?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767734#Comment_120767734

That’s the thing tho, he managed to break into the SA squad this late.

There was a very credible argument for his inclusion, imo.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767747#Comment_120767747

Has anyone said he’s had no input? Again, they haven’t.

And for the third time, if he did, I think he got it wrong.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767777#Comment_120767777

It is an absolute certainty he had input. To suggest otherwise is completely illogical.

The only problem is that that puts a pin in the Leinster conspiracy balloon that some other Munster fans like to consistently spout off on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767646#Comment_120767646

Who's **** on the Munster player here?

We're discussing a Munster player in the Munster forum. FFS.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767804#Comment_120767804

It is an absolute certainty he had input. To suggest otherwise is completely illogical.

Fortunate then that absolutely nobody is suggesting otherwise.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767765#Comment_120767765

I don't for a second think he is in with a genuine chance of travelling to France with SA. The Irish squad is also, for obvious reasons, somewhat more settled.

I'm not saying there isn't a credible argument for his inclusion - just that there are also plenty for his exclusion. Its not a travesty.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767826#Comment_120767826

Then why include him?

When the 42 man Ireland squad was originally announced, some on here made the argument that adding any more would dilute the time the coaches have with the players.

Is Neinaber willing to dilute the time he has with his players for a player he has no intention of picking?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767755#Comment_120767755

"Kleyn isn't good enough" wasn't a criticism, it's an observation. You could put him in a bucket with Tom Farrell, Max Deegan, Marty Moore, Paul Boyle, Niall Murray, Shane Daly, Harry Byrne, Kieran Marmion, Luke McGrath, etc etc. Decent players, maybe just that little bit below test level.

Edit: deleted the rest of the post, suggest Ireland thread if you really want to discuss

phog

Can anyone, anyone at all show me where a poster has said that POC or any other assistant coach has no part in selecting a panel or a playing squad.

I don't remember seeing it.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767939#Comment_120767939

its not a big deal for Ireland.

It is a big deal for Munster. We have lost Healy because Scotland capped him and Ireland didn't. Now i don' t think that Healy is good enough for Ireland and he was ambitious so not much could be done here.

On Kleyn he was the best player for Munster this year in a year they won the league. I think he absolutely was good enough for the Irish training squad and think that is proven by him being selected for SA. Now i know people wont agree with that but its my opinion. It very likely that Munster lose Kleyn now due to this decision and there is nothing Munster could do about it.

Thats two important players that Munster likely lose.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Haley leave at the end of his contract as he clearly isn't in the Irish plans either and has been playing excellently for Munster.

I know Coombes is a topic that is much debated here but i again feel he has deserved more of a chance.

Its not hard to imagine that younger players coming through are seeing players playing fantastically for Munster and still not getting a chance for Ireland. Wondering if its worth hanging around or if they should just go abroad for the money.

So while I understand fully that this selection policy is working for Irelandand its getting results, I also believe that it will have an effect on the other three provinces players and its understandable that their fans get annoyed with it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767843#Comment_120767843

Well for one, SA have 6 matches between now and the world cup and we don't. I should probably re-phrase my comment to be that absent injury I don't think he has a chance of going.

SA were happy to bring Jenkins into a training squad also, let's not forget.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120767825#Comment_120767825

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768026#Comment_120768026

Well there are consistent and continued posts here claiming overt Leinster bias in terms of selection.

Typically as a counterpoint to that, it is pointed out that arguably Munster's greatest ever player is a key part of the selection and coaching team.

You're both acknowledging here that POC does have considerable input into the selection, so by clear inference, you must think the theories of Leinster bias in the selection are nonsense then too?

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768026#Comment_120768026

Just like there weren’t any posts saying he had the final say. You know, like you suggested just 1 page back. Maybe take some of your own advice…

The world is round btw and global warming is real.

I’ll happily cop a ban for this if it’s warranted, but sh!t like this is part of the reason this place is such a farce now and so many regulars (and decent posters) have outright abandoned this forum. People refusing to argue in good faith and just been out and out dicks to each other.

Grow up and cop on the lot of you. You’ve ruined this forum enough, which is really disappointing because it used to be a pretty good place to come to. But because grown adults can’t moderate their own behaviour it’s now a place not worth the time or the effort. So many of you are behaving like children, and in reality should be downright ashamed of yourselves. I mean imagine being as petty, snide and (not always passive) aggressive as some of you!? Christ it must be a miserable way to live. I hope you’re happy that you’ve messed this place up for so many others with your immature squabbling.

Sorry mods if this has crossed the line, but it needs to be said so I’m not really that sorry tbh. To see a place I used to frequent all the time become so hostile and petty is just really frustrating. How so few have managed to mess it up for so many shouldn’t really happen, but then this is the internet I suppose.

Podge_irl

Mod: That's enough backseat modding and sniping at people's intentions rather than the content of their posts

Jump_In_Jack

I think Kleyn has enough goodwill in the bank from representing Ireland at the last World Cup and representing Munster for 7 years already, and being part of the backbone of the team that won the URC trophy the season just gone.

Snyman is an interesting case, his salary is paid privately so the IRFU don’t lose a penny if Munster resign him, so the only issue other than setting a precedent for giving a third consecutive contract to an NIE player, is the issue of potentially blocking a pathway for Wycherley, Ahern, Hurley, Edogbo and O’Connell (O’Connor was also released). The actual amount of time he has been available to this point after 3 years though should count in his favour, as he hasn’t blocked anyone up to the last few weeks of this season. He might miss the first few weeks of this new season also, I’d guess he’ll miss at least the first 3 rounds, URC starts the weekend of the 20th-22nd of October, RWC final is the 28th October.

It’s certainly a long shot that both would be kept, but if they don’t sign any more NIE’s for 2024/25 season then I think both could be kept for another year.

Especially while Treadwell and McCarthy are the preferred squad players at the moment and both are young guys. And guys like Molony and Niall Murray would surely be next in line, so the Munster guys probably won’t even be close to the extended Irish squad in the next year or two anyway.

If I’m being honest I think Munster should be looking at a “Kitsoff” type tighthead for the following season, as Ryan and Archer will surely be finishing up at 36 years of age each, and Knox and Salanoa are rarely fit and aren’t showing anything to be excited about yet. Sure that could all change yet if either of them start putting in some good consistent performances this season, fingers crossed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768298#Comment_120768298

I think Kleyn has enough goodwill in the bank from representing Ireland at the last World Cup and representing Munster for 7 years already, and being part of the backbone of the team that won the URC trophy the season just gone.

I really don't think this is or should be a factor.

The actual amount of time he has been available to this point after 3 years though should count in his favour, as he hasn’t blocked anyone up to the last few weeks of this season.

This won't be relevant either at the time of re-contracting, unless you're assuming the IRFU should assume he'll miss a similar amount of time injured?

Especially while Treadwell and McCarthy are the preferred squad players at the moment and both are young guys.

Treadwell is 28 this year, just two years younger than Kleyn.

If I’m being honest I think Munster should be looking at a “Kitsoff” type tighthead for the following season,

I agree with this - I think the most value for Munster would be getting a good NIQ prop. Edogbo and Ahern will step up to take over gametime from Snyman / Kleyn.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768298#Comment_120768298

I don't particularly disagree with the logic re: Kleyn and Snyman - I think the IRFU are far too picky on NIEs in general, but its just not going to happen in the reality we are living in. I think you're right though that the real needs are elsewhere anyway.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768190#Comment_120768190

Of course he has input.

And of course Farrell had the final say.

But the suggestion that anyone claimed POC had no input is just not true.

And I really don’t see the value in re-hashing the Leinster bias vs familiarity with the system argument again…

Deramore

Crusaders to play Munster in early 2024

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/crusaders-set-to-visit-munster-for-pre-season-fixture-in-early-2024-super-rugby/

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768499#Comment_120768499

If this comes to pass this will be excellent, probably with weakened teams but still something to look for ward to. I assume if Munster are hosting it then they might want to try PuC again, if the URC are hosting it then they might want to bring it to Dublin.

Edited to add

From the very bottom of the article

In the meantime, as a way of testing the water regarding the fan appeal of seeing Super Rugby Pacific sides playing in Europe, RugbyPass has learned that the Crusaders will embark on a pre-season trip in late January 2024 that will include a match against Munster in Limerick.

Henry Ford III

Kleyn is very unlucky imho. He's a better player than Treadwell and McCarthy.

I'm surprised Paulie didn't pull harder for him to be included in the RWC squad.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768499#Comment_120768499

This would be class if it happens. Commemorative jersey on the way, I reckon.

Neil3030

SA XV now Crusaders. Hope this becomes an annual thing.

Split gate on a decent house in Thomond likely pulls in north of NZ$500k for the visitors too...

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120768956#Comment_120768956

I'd love an annual "feature" game v opposition like SA, NZ, Australia or the winners of the Super Rugby competition. It might be easier organise an autumn game during the AIs