Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121616480#Comment_121616480

Doesn't mean they aren't wrong.

There is simply no chance in hell that James Ryan is only 107Kgs nor is Joe McCarthy 112kgs.

Simply looking at them tells you that..

The Wikipedia page for Ryan says 116Kgs and McCarthy at 119kgs - Both of which are far more believable figures

There is a long standing tradition of the "stats" on the Provincial and National websites being very wrong.

I suspect that the stats come from the very first time they were loaded into the system and have never been updated since.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617843#Comment_121617843

The little handbook Leinster Rugby gives to season ticket holders has the following weights for these guys (all of which seem more credible):

Ryan Baird - 113kgs

Joe McCarthy - 119kgs

James Ryan - 115kgs

Joe McCarthy has been the most powerful second row in Irish rugby this season - the idea that he's doing it at 112kgs would be nothing short of miraculous.

phog

Only terrace tickets left for the game on Saturday

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby/status/1746869035197690206?t=32IZ8Br7xPMoGKyNtddqmg&s=19

phog

From the Irish Times on POM

"It feels different when Pete’s around,” admitted Graham Rowntree. “He’s a proven warrior. Within the week, he helps drive standards, helps Tadhg as the captain, driving standards on the field and again his actions demonstrate that.

“Niall Scannell was very good tonight. We’ve got a new plan with Niall now – one game on five months off. I’ll have to look at his contract there. No, I was delighted with him.”

That O’Mahony’s influence remains profound was underlined by Beirne as well.

“I think I probably lean on him more than I realise. The reality is he’s a born leader. Just, it comes naturally to him and he speaks incredibly well to the group. He leads by example on the field as well, so if ever at the moment I need to turn to someone, it’s him, and we’ve seen it massively this week.

“I spoke with him many times privately and I had him speaking quite a bit to the group as well, which took a lot of weight off my shoulders too. He’s done the role for the last 10-11 years and as he said, he wants to be there for whoever is the next captain here. And this week it was me and he certainly was.”

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121617843#Comment_121617843

Wikipedia aint the most reliable either. Realisticly weve no idea what any player weights just guess work

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121618534#Comment_121618534

That's fair , but using the naked eye and comparing against known individuals we can be confident that some of the figures are just plain wrong - Most likely just really outdated.

I can believe that James Ryan was 107kgs the 1st time they created a profile for him on the IRFU website 6/7 years ago and that they just haven't bothered updating it since.

But he's not 107KGs now , that's for sure!!

Have read online rumours that Munster are signing Ultan Dillane at the end of the season.

He’d be a really good signing IMO - had a great game yesterday in the second row but comfortable at 6 too. Still only 30.

agoodusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620549#Comment_121620549

Feels like a sensible signing, Irish qualified so wouldn't block potential big-name additions.

I'm being a bit speculative here, but potentially having this much second rock depth would in my mind guarantee that Ahern is being viewed purely as a long-term 6, at both provincial and international level.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620549#Comment_121620549

i dunno is a second row what munster need to be signing, albeit with the current injury list it might be understandable.

also, i always got the feeling in his interviews that dillane felt he had been burned by munster earlier in his career

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620822#Comment_121620822

That stuff likely goes though as coaching tickets or people in the administrative side move on.

He’s a professional at the end of the day, and at 30, might still harbour Ireland ambitions.

I think it would be a sensible move by both parties - he’d bring a bit of heft and dynamism to Munster and agree it likely means Ahern is viewed as a 6 longer term.

It’s still speculation for now anyway.

Buer

They could be viewing Dillane as a replacement for POM. IT reporting that his contract situation is not really progressing currently.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121621900#Comment_121621900

It's crazy if that is what's happening, I've always rated Dillane but he's no POM.

This could end up a direct swap, POM to LaR and Dillane to Munster.

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622018#Comment_121622018

I'd imagine that, if it's true, it's a book balancing situation. POM is on a healthy chunk of cash on a central deal. Munster now need to take that onto their books.

Healy, Fekitoa and Conway would have come off Munster contracts this year but John Ryan, Jager, Seán O'Brien and Nankivell would have come on board. If Munster have ambitions to sign people like Dillane as well as a couple of other guys, then it will be very hard to do so whilst taking an additional couple hundred thousand onto their wage bill for a 35 year old.

mun1

Are we allowed mention the IRFU’s failed gamble in giving a 38 year a €450k contract in an attempt to get beyond a WC QF as a precedent.

Seriously though, Id say POM knows he’s on his last contract and is (rightly from his POV) holding out for a 2-3 year deal similar a certain injury prone 38 year old.

He’s probably being only offered a 1 year deal by IRFU/Munster , and not on CC terms.

pickarooney

If POM can prove he's by a distance the best backrow in the country he'll have a good bargaining position.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622067#Comment_121622067

Do they? I thought it was mentioned before that the IRFU had some sort of Top Up to match CC?

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620549#Comment_121620549

Great signing if rumours are true! Several international caps. Can play No.4 or No.6, athletic and mobile. Maybe he sees it as a final chance to play WC rugby for Ireland? Softens the blow of RG leaving if true. Good bit of business for Munster, Ireland and Dillane if it goes ahead.

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622134#Comment_121622134

Yup, PONI contracts. I'm not sure of the stipulations of them i.e. are they for up and coming guys who will contribute into the future. Ireland/Munster may just be looking at POM and thinking that his time with Ireland is drawing to a close with his age and strong alternative options in that role.

phog

I think, if you look at our recent results that POM is hugely important to Munster. If the IRFU want to ignore that part of his game and just concentrate on his age and their other options for Ireland then that's fine but if they're serious about keeping their best players playing at home then they need to consider how they deal with players like POM and to a lesser degree Ben Healy.

lawrencesummers

Just for context.

Heaslip was 33 when he was given a 2.5 year deal that would have him playing until he was 36.

Peter is 34 and not being offered anything…0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622191#Comment_121622191

This isn't an IRFU issue - we're 4 years out from the next WC, and there are a glut of really good young options in POM's position.

It is entirely logical that the IRFU feel they can't justify another central contract at this juncture. Munster were aware of this at the time of his last contract negotiation, so the onus is on them to budget to afford him if they want to retain him.

This issue comes up again and again, and it's a common theme from Munster to think they can freely spend in other positions but then every time they can't afford a player it's the IRFU's fault.

I've no idea why you referenced Ben Healy again in this piece, but it's perfectly indicative of the victim culture that exists at times in Munster around player movement.

FrannoFan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622207#Comment_121622207

Different physical profiles, injury history, levels of competition for the jersey etc. Irfu used to give out more central contracts too. Essentially different times. If we had a dorris at the time I'm not sure heaslip would have got that contract.

Irish times saying pom was on 300k. Hard to see Munster being able to absorb that. So either a pay cut, private funding to make up shortfall or leave.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622214#Comment_121622214

Victim culture? Nah, that's rubbish.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622207#Comment_121622207

Yeah, a decision that was ultimately proven to be a mistake, given his career ending injury. Why would they repeat errors of the past?

As others have pointed out - there is a glut of really talented young options contending for that 6 shirt, and it's not realistic to assume POM makes it to the next WC. Ryan Baird (24 years old), Cian Prendergast (23 years old), David McCann (23 years old) and Tom Ahern (23 years old) are all real viable contenders for that Irish 6 shirt.

You can't justify a central contract to a 34 year old guy when there is that much competition for the shirt.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622107#Comment_121622107

Pete is a brilliant player but he's nowhere near the levels of Sexton. Also Sexton, even at 38, was head & shoulders above the nearest challenger for the 10 shirt.

There is a reason why IRFU have only ever broken their rules for Sexton.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622234#Comment_121622234

It really isn't - there is a clear and consistent theme of blaming all of Munster's issues and a lot of their failings on the IRFU.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622245#Comment_121622245

Examples?

bingobango12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622207#Comment_121622207

Heaslip was literally the only option available when he got that deal. CJ Stander only became an option for Ireland the year before Heaslip retired.

POM, while imo still a brilliant leader, arguably will be dropped for Baird for this 6 nations.

If Munster can’t find a way to keep him that is a Munster problem, nobody elses. I think everyone saw on the weekend that he is massively important to that Munster team, and they would probably be better served offering POM a 2 year deal instead of Dillane, who is probably on similar money coming from France.

No doubt some will find a way to blame the IRFU for this, similar to the Ben Healy situation but this is firmly on Munster to sort out. Just as Ben Healy was. The fact they backed an out of form (for years), injury riddled player in Carberry instead of Healy was on them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622262#Comment_121622262

Just in the past 12 months or so the discussion around Ben Healy leaving Munster, RG Snyman moving to Leinster, the Jean Kleyn affair, the general whinging about central contracts and the page after page of ranting after virtually every single Irish squad announcement.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622243#Comment_121622243

A gamble that didn't pay off but that's for another thread and probably done to death