Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121648952#Comment_121648952

Forwards in the leadership group see the gameplan go awry, and just keep their opinions to themselves, is that the idea?

Whatever world that is, it's not a rugby pitch.

finbarrk

I presume the Northampton game will be on the Saturday.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121646202#Comment_121646202

In the last half decade Munster have won as many champions cup as all the other provinces put together.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652571#Comment_121652571

If TNT have any say (and I think they do) then it will be a Saturday game, Saints are the top of the premiership and TNT love their premiership so I think we'll see Saints v Munster, Exeter v Bath and Leinster v Leicester on Saturday.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652597#Comment_121652597

The true barometer of success.

Apparently Munster are bringing Matt Gallagher back at the end of the season:

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/414784/gallagher-set-for-munster-return/

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652170#Comment_121652170

It's not deliberate. It's just more difficult to execute.

With regards 12 of the first choice 15; that hasn't been the problem. In this game, and others, we've put ourselves in a position to win them, and things have been falling off after 55 mins+ when we've had to unload the bench. We just don't have the depth, particularly with a glut of injuries in the tight 5.

To illustrate the point:

• Nothampton - after 55 mins Munster were leading 20-10.
• Connacht - after 57 mins, Munster were leading 6-9
• Exeter - after 60 mins, Munster were leading 13-24
• Bayone - after 70+ mins, Munster were leading 17-10.

Look, could we do a beter job of managing the game? Yes. But is the lack of depth and injuries, particularly in the tight-5 a bigger issues? Yes, absolutely, imo. When we start to get some players back, I think we could've turned most of those games above into wins.

But for example, even in the Exeter game, Crowley was exceptionally good.

Fwiw, I'd disagree with this:

Munster weren’t controlling where the game was being played. The people who control that are the half backs, aided somewhat by their centres and/or back three.

Yes, half-backs, but there's a reason it's called "10 man rugby" in those conditions. Pointing to the experience of the bench in the backs wasn't very consequential. Not having it in the tight 5 was.

We don't need "everything to go exactly our way" for things to improve.

Buer

Bit surprised by that. He had significant injury issues when in Munster but, even when he was fit, wasn't selected much.

He's getting a glut of game time in Bath who are playing brilliant stuff in their back line these days. Will be some much needed depth though if there are injuries or rotation.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652597#Comment_121652597

I don’t care about the other provinces. I want Munster to win. Why are you mentioning the other provinces?

clsmooth

Don't remember him having a huge impact at his previous stint. Gives a bit more depth but think he’d be behind Haley, Zebo, Daly and probably Campbell at 15?

aloooof

Bit of an odd one, possibly a signing in light of Conway's early retirement, but I'd defo prefer to see Campbell or McCarthy or even Ben O'Connor getting the minutes. Tho the later 2 are Year 1 academy, so this probably gives them some leeway to develop.

clsmooth

Is Zebo contracted for next season?

50HX

I think he's up in the summer the same as kilcoyne

The fact that the source for this is The Rugby Paper is something I should have called out in the original post; it's not exactly the most consistently reliable platform, but the story did seem relatively well sourced/informed.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652924#Comment_121652924

Is Gallagher technically Irish qualified meaning that he wouldn't consume an NIQ spot?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653010#Comment_121653010

Yeah, I think he's IQ alright. Two of his grandparents (John Gallager's parents) are Irish.

Buer

Munster do have a lot to build on but also a lot to work on. Injuries have been absolutely detrimental to the season so far and conditions haven't suited the game plan at times. I think we've seen glimpses of what Munster want to do and this has been extremely effective at times.

But we've also seen the difficult second album syndrome. Teams have worked some things out a little. The big carriers are being attacked and not punching the same holes as opposition are up to speed on guys now with better analysis. Teams are shutting off the wider channels which means Munster's primary success route for that has been the kick pass which worked to great effect at times but it's also not realistic to rely on it non-stop.

As good as Nankivell has been, I'd like to see him connect with his 10 and 13 more to create space. At the moment, he's being asked almost exclusively to bash it into the opposition which he usually does to great effect but I'm not sure it's conducive to backline fluidity. When he doesn't punch a hole, it's reset and the backline has become a little disjointed. Munster were reportedly eager to get Aki in for this season and it very much looks like Nankivell is being asked to replicate that style. He also has over 1,500 minutes already this season due to the NPC campaign so I'm sure his body would welcome a few less collisions.

In terms of tactical approach, I'm not sure really where the issue is i.e. if it's with the coaching ticket or the implementation by the players. Rowntree didn't seem pleased with the decision making on field at the weekend following the game. It seems somewhat odd to me. In fine conditions last week, Munster kicked the leather off the ball (over 1km of kicking distance) and had huge success with it. In grim conditions last night, they were far more reluctant to do so. Good kicking wins games.

Crowley is a solid kicker of the ball from hand, generally. He put in a couple of nice kicks at the weekend but then there were times when a territorial kick was on and they elected to keep it in hand and became very lateral particularly in the first half when it was only really in the last 5 minutes that they managed to get some momentum and enter the opposition 22. I do think there's work to be done on the kicking game in a big way both in terms of when to kick and how they kick. Rewatching it, there were multiple box kicks that were too long and just gave Northampton easy launch play ball. Zebo stuck one on the full. Crowley stuck the kick off dead. Fin Smith had the ball on a string, in comparison. But I think there was a significant difference in backfield coverage also which was a factor. One of Smith's touchfinders late on had an acre to aim at. They had three kicks that found touch deep inside the Munster 22 off the top of my head (one leading to the decisive try, ultimately).

All fixable items for Munster. The injuries and weather will both clear up but Munster will need to take the prolonged break now to really work on the performance issues that aren't really related to these items i.e. on field decision making/execution, discipline, set piece etc.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652833#Comment_121652833

Because its a reflection of where Irish rugby in general is.

letowski

Would prefer if we just backed the likes of O'Connor, McCarthy and Campbell than bring in Gallagher. O'Connor has good size, he should be good to take on an increase role next season.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653103#Comment_121653103

Munster do have a lot to build on but also a lot to work on. Injuries have been absolutely detrimental to the season so far and conditions haven't suited the game plan at times. I think we've seen glimpses of what Munster want to do and this has been extremely effective at times.

I think that's a fair assessment of where Munster and is a breath of fresh air compared to some of the posts that are now all to frequent from the usual suspects. It highlights the issues but takes into account reasons why we haven't been pushed on from the URC win last season.

I think we can improve both as the conditions improve and our injury profile improves.

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652833#Comment_121652833

He probably mentioned the other provinces, because of your obvious disdain for the URC. it's very reminiscent of a leinster fan and their quest for a "5th star". which is a joke.

we only get the opportunity to chase 2 titles every year, the league and the Europe. I wouldn't belittle either of them.

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652825#Comment_121652825

Exactly this. Its a difficult game Munster are playing.

I think you summed it correctly.

Munster are really suffering from lack of quality in closing games out - In the pack (Casey also faded. Understandably)

It was the classic example of death by a thousand cuts.

Just going on a mini rant here on some of the things I've seen and heard the last few days:

"Controlling the game" was an idiotic phrase that was bandied about for years as a stick to beat/or praise the Outhalf in Ireland.

It shows how a little knowledge is sometimes a dangerous thing. Same people would have said Wallace wasn't a 7...or SOB wasn't 7! And that "Jenno" should play for Ireland!!

Now they have graduated to the term halfbacks and controlling where the game is played....AND will now blame Crowley for not closing out the games!!

Yes both Crowley and Casey should try to turn Northampton pack around....by finding grass, BUT It starts with your pack and your set-piece. That gives your side the platform.

"running when we meant to kick and kicking when we meant to run" - That's a collective issue. Not solely the halfbacks.

That's where Crowley will grow. Leadership/decision making: "Right lads, this is what we are doing..."

I'd surmise it like this.

IF Casey & Crowley were playing behind LEINSTERS pack in this game - No issue!

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653212#Comment_121653212

It's extremely defeatist saying 'ah but sure the others haven't won it either'.

You never hear it in any other sport.

jcon1913

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121646202#Comment_121646202

It meant more than that to the teams that competed in it - otherwise why compete?

Only means f all when your team doesnt win it? Maybe that what you intended to post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653539#Comment_121653539

Ah, come on. Like, I'm fans of both Casey & Crowley, and don't think either were primarily at fault on Saturday (Munster's biggest issue is unquestionably in the tight five), but it's a accepted principle at almost all levels of rugby that your half backs are the two primary decision makers on the field, and have by far the largest influence on where you play the game.

At the start of virtually every Munster possession, they're the guys who are calling the plays and deciding what the team is trying to do. For me, Northampton defended superbly in the awful conditions, when down to 14. They sat off in defence, which kept showing Crowley a picture that there was space on the outside, and they backed themselves on the heavy pitch and shocking conditions to be able to close those gaps. Crowley should have stuck to the messages coming from the coaching box to ignore the space and play for territory, but he's a young guy who naturally plays an attacking style and couldn't resist the cross field kicks / balls to width etc when he saw the space.

I'm not overly critical of him for this - Munster easily could and possibly should still have won the game, but he's learning valuable lessons from these experiences.

In those sort of conditions, it's really easy for players to go off their feet at attacking rucks etc and give away costly penalties.

By contrast - Fin Smith seemed to find space very easily in the Munster backfield, despite Munster's numerical advantage.

It's not accurate though to say it's a collective issue - gameplan and territory questions are always primarily responsibilities of the half backs. It would be one thing if he was consistently putting Munster into position down the field, and they were then getting turned over at the set piece or something like that, but that wasn't what happened on Saturday evening.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121652756#Comment_121652756

It just shows how hard won a european cup is, for all leinsters superior budget, production line, player ranking and depth they still cant win one.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653666#Comment_121653666

What?? No

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653674#Comment_121653674

'Ah come on' Nothing!

The pack dictate where you play the game because they allow you to play the game.

It is accurate to say its a collective issue. It's the complete team sport.

This is what happened in the end game:

1.Pack started to get beat up

2.Ruck penalties

3.Scrum penalties

4.Momentum shift

5.Couldnt reestablish field position.

I'm not specifically pointing you out by the way. You definitely have the knowledge of the game and are a really good contributor.

We are just going to have it disagree with the genesis of the collapse in this game.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653722#Comment_121653722

When in doubt, lash out.

Or, more simply, to deflect from Munster's problems, point out how Leinster have narrowly lost the last two European Cup finals.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121653790#Comment_121653790

No, not lashing out, its just that the standard of rugby is so high in europe that being competitive is difficult, and being successful is near impossible when you consider how good leinster are, essentially the best rugby team in the world rankings and they cant win it.

Its just the way things are currently.

As for munsters problems to me its 95% down to a massive unlucky return of injuries. Had 2/3 more players been available we would have beaten at least one of Bayonne or saints and probably connacht in the last month.

Thats pro sports.