Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885163#Comment_121885163

He hadn't, started 20 games from 21 and all 20 were at 8. But that's the point, if it was a viable option it's something they would have prepared for. It doesnt add up, you are saying Munster were trying to do something they hadn't tried all season in the biggest game of the season, I dont buy that.

Kendellen did come on, he was on for 12 minutes.

But also that sort of proves my point why starting a doubtful player is better.

nerd69

The idea some people seem to have that kleyn is not good or fell into the squad is crazy given

1. He was called in as soon as he was eligable

2. Rassie brought him on for eben **** etzebeth for 25 mins in a 1 point world cup final

If you dont think hes a missed asset for ireland your wilfully ignorant

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885037#Comment_121885037

Snyman is a blond Nakarawa

ingo1984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885298#Comment_121885298

True. I'd trust rassies judgement of a players ability over Andy farrels judgement. One coach is a double world cup winner the other flatters to deceive.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885256#Comment_121885256

even if he didnt start any games in the second row he definitely finished games there

fair enough, i forgot kendellan came on for kleyn

in what way does that prove your point? if said player starts and is injured early then the same problems are possible. arguably its safer to keep them on the bench to see if they are to be used as a tactical replacement or if they are themselves needed to replace an injured player

your just trying to use this, very very flawed, argument to further your point about RG. a point that itself is also, very very flawed

nerd69

Coombes has played a ton of second row

Podge_irl

Ireland and South Africa play a different style of game and the SA suits Kleyn more. This should not be a particularly controversial comment. Kleyn improved his handling and work around the field but potentially it just came too late. Was it ultimately a mistake? Like, maybe, but not one I suspect AF will lose sleep over.

I'd also be surprised, though not shocked, if Snyman started in Leinster's first choice 23. While the depth in SA is incredibly impressive, I don't know how you can ignore that he starts so, so rarely. Personally I think it is going to come down to him or McCarthy and Ryan is locked in. Thankfully we will get to find out, but honestly, that's not really relevant to the Munster thread.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883974#Comment_121883974

What that got to do with the question I asked of Phog?

Why do you feel Kleyn offers more in the scrum than McCarthy? Interested to see how you come to that conclusion.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885725#Comment_121885725

Hes bigger and is more seasoned. Mccarthy is not a very rounded player in general right now he has a lot of potential but is being massivly overrated in his current form

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885614#Comment_121885614

The style arguments nonsense he won munster player of the year last year in a very ball handling focused team. Ireland fucked up simple as

Frisch_The_Frenchie

Going back to the Frisch point and this is a legitimate question. Are Munster fans annoyed because he is not capped or annoyed because he is going to potentially be NIQ? What remediation are you looking for?

I proposed on another forum, that IQ players that become NIQ over the course of the contract don’t count as NIQ for their next contract and hence Munster keep him/Snyman.

Or is the expectation that one of Faz’s KPIs is provincial player retention? If so, how does that interact with other KPIs? Is a wooden spoon where the entire Munster squad is capped a success or a failure?

Appreciate that this is the Munster thread so no-one owes any answers, but I’m curious.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885224#Comment_121885224

I actually agree with you on the discipline. I meant he has a lot of no change ruck entries. Where he could be there or not and it would be exactly the same. I'd follow him for a game and you'll see the same. I honestly think that sometimes he's not sure where he should be.

I don't think we missed Ryan necessarily. Almost the entire pack got whipped.

50HX

Purely from a munster fan perspective I couldn't care less if he was capped or not

My grip is he potentially becomes NIQ & then we loose him.

Frisch_The_Frenchie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885839#Comment_121885839

i’d agree with that change, personally. It makes no sense to punish players for not being selected.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885783#Comment_121885783

Why is he not within an arses roar of ireland when qualified but when niq suddenly an issue. If a players ignored irish qualified he should be allowed to stay regardless. Snyman was blocking players at munster so is going to leinster to replace a national team player as starter its comical.

Munsters job is to develop/import international players for ireland. Theve done that and suffered for it.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885805#Comment_121885805

Ryan was a very very good loosehead lock shoehorned into a tighthead lock role where hes worse than jean kleyn.

pickarooney

Snyman's replacing Jenkins who's neither an international (save one cap) nor really a starter.

Frisch_The_Frenchie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885881#Comment_121885881

1. Completely agree he should not be forced to leave Munster. See my second post
2. Snyman might beat out Joe. He won’t beat out Ryan. (Faz’s selection is wrong imo)
3. i think that describing it in terms of reward and punishment is a bit conspiratorial but that is easy for me to say, when it’s not my team.

let’s get a mass letter to D Humph going, so. Thanks for your genuine response.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885898#Comment_121885898

And Ross Molony has had enough

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885913#Comment_121885913

It may be conspiratorial its pissed me off. The repeat of it and potentially getting it again with haley is ridiculous. We want strong provinces but aren't supporting them equally

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885898#Comment_121885898

Surely now ireland starter joe mccarthys doing that

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885768#Comment_121885768

So being bigger and more seasoned means he offers more in the scrum? Is Kleyn that much bigger, by which I assume you mean heavier, than McCarthy?

Is lock scrum power determined by explosive power to help your front row win that initial hit and gain you momentum?

All genuine questions for any scrum buffs. I have no idea how good McCarthy is in the scrum but the Irish scrum has generally gone well with him in this 6 nations despite a few wobbles against France.

Not sure how people can confidently say Kleyn is better scrummager. Being more seasoned doesn’t convince me as an argument.

50HX

Snyman will play v little as a starting lock for Leinster nxt season.

He's signed for his skill sets for the latter stages of the champions cup, will start maybe 2 URC games outside of another 2 inter Pro

He didn't go there to be flogged & zero chance of him goin to Bath or Top 14

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885939#Comment_121885939

Well south africa who view set piece as much more important than us rate him. Hes an actual genuine tighthead lock mccarthys not that.

Frisch_The_Frenchie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885927#Comment_121885927

I’m very deliberately trying not to be incendiary, I don’t agree with the IRFU approach on this but I also really disagree with token cap captures. I suppose the only concern is that you could end up with a good few starters that were formerly IQ and the IRFU want to avoid it.

leakyboots

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885939#Comment_121885939

I'm no expert at all but watch how Archer gets on when Kleyn is in the scrum versus when he isn't. Kleyn is pretty integral to our maul too. He just does a lot of the grunt work really well. Edogbo does it as well as him but offers more in attack. Edogbo's stats this season were top notch before he got injured, it's a real pity that's he's had another serious one as he was finally starting to show in a run of games why he's such a great prospect.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121886018#Comment_121886018

I dont mind the disagreement with capture caps but dont punish the province for it. If frisch poays for france his position within the irish structure hasnt changed because as many have stated hes down the depth chart.

Kleyn on the other hand i will die on that hill. We have very tangible evidence that we messed up.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121886018#Comment_121886018

I really feel like anyone capable of getting capped by south africa or france wouldn't be a token cap.

Its basically bad asset management. I know people don't like that but this is pro sports.

I also think these are such close calls. Like Frisch or Osbourne right now for a call up into the squad? That's pretty close. You aren't reaching way down for someone who might get capped by Italy or something.

nerd69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121886086#Comment_121886086

And anyone capable of being brought on for 25 mins of a world cup final at the expense of eben etzebeth is actively top top quality

Frisch_The_Frenchie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121886086#Comment_121886086

1.I don’t agree with capture caps

2.The ability of a player to play elsewhere should not override the player’s ability to win a place in a squad

3.I don’t agree that Frisch makes the squad on merit

4.Players who become NIQ like this should not not count as NIQ for the next contract

fukly agree that other users have different and as (if not more so) legitimate views on this, though.