Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

lawrencesummers

what team will start in belfast?

Surely Beirne and POM will be rested

There is a sizable injury list as well and not a lot of second rows around. The bench could be a bit of a lottery?

killer

scannell / barron

ryan

kleyn

mcdonald

JOD

coombes

klendennen

murray / casey / patterson

crowley

Earls

scannell

frisch

Nash

daly

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039817#Comment_120039817

Salmoa Has to start …..good a servant and all Ryan is he’s gone soon ….Ben Healy you’d hope will be there …..fekitoa and Frisch centres …Campbell deserves a start …..saying that we need points so can’t experiment too much

Former Former Former

Might still see a good smattering of internationals if the Lions game can be used to rest them ahead of the return to Europe. That said, Beirne in particular really needs a rest.

Above all, I would like to see Crowley start at 10; for all the talk about him, we need to start seeing what he can or cannot do in meaningful games.

Would be nice to give Fekitoa another shot too, there's a quality player there if he can manage to show it. Seems mad to have a 20-cap All Black drawing down a sizeable wage and not even in the 23.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039888#Comment_120039888

I think they will be made start earls, if they want to or not to allow him discover his form before the 6nations.

Carbery might have to be rested depending on the paymasters desires.

The big problem is depth in the second row and leadership.

Is anyone due back from injury?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039977#Comment_120039977

According to Andy friend the provinces were not given specific games in which to rest their test players, but more of a "play 8 from 10" choice.

So the games that players are rested for are completely driven by the provincial coaching squad and not "paymasters"

Buer

Beirne, POM, Casey and Carbery have all hit their limit in terms of game time. Munster went hard after the recent block of games.

I understand they're all set to be rested this weekend and potentially the Lions game also.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040007#Comment_120040007

Is that 8 out of 10 starts of do sub appearances count that the ‘not paymasters’ have dictated should happen

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040145#Comment_120040145

I dunno, I don't work for the IRFU, I'm only relaying what the IRFU paid coach revealed.

Maybe you have another source for your musings?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039667#Comment_120039667

It'll be a tough ask to get a win in the Kingspan, in what's likely to be a rotated team, but we managed it last season. Would love to see Casey and Crowley starting at 9 and 10. But with Ulster's maul, someone like Edogbo returning from injury would be huge for us, not really sure on this status.

letowski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040376#Comment_120040376

A squad update after the Northampton match said that Edogbo would be out in the coming weeks unfortunately. Ankle injury. On the other hand, I could of sworn I saw Fineen Whycherly back training. I think we will need Jean Kleyn in Belfast alright. Probably beside McDonald. Would love to see a Casey/Crowley/Campbell/Fekitoa/Frisch/Nash/Haley backline.

jcon1913

Carbury has a bit more dog in him I thoughtHe chased back for a ball when the Leinster FB was almost through- Carbury ran across his line in what to me was a foul but the referee let it go.

Neil3030

Another way to look at things.

September/October the average was 1.8 points per game (red line up to the Leinster (A) game).

But from November (Ulster (H) onwards) there hasn't been a game without some kind of return (* including a theoretical return in the case of SA XV), with an average of 3.1.

This latter average would result in ~25 points from the remaining 8 URC fixtures.

I'd also expect a slightly higher return, if we continue to see further improvements on the pitch, and since that 3.1 includes games against Leinster and Toulouse.

phog

Squad Update

On the injury front following our St Stephen’s Day derby with Leinster, Diarmuid Barron failed his HIA and will enter the return to play protocols.

Jean Kleyn will go for a scan on a knee injury and his availability for Ulster will be determined later in the week.

There is good news for Mike Haley as he will return to training this week after missing the Leinster clash.

In managing game time, Munster’s Ireland internationals will be rotated in the coming weeks.

Continuing to rehab: Jeremy Loughman (thigh), John Hodnett (thigh), Tom Ahern (shoulder), RG Snyman (knee), Fineen Wycherley (shoulder), Paddy Kelly (head), Jack Daly (knee), Andrew Conway (knee), Keynan Knox (knee)

Neil3030

For all the talk of Munster being "close to full strength" two nights ago, tell me Leinster score both their tap-n-go tries if John Hodnett had been playing.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041141#Comment_120041141

I thought the same tbh. We were missing Conway, Loughman, Haley, Snyman, Hodnett, Knox, Farrell.

They’re all candidates for the first 15.

Equally for all the talk of a 2nd string Leinster, they had 5 first choice internationals starting.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041141#Comment_120041141

Why not? There was an entire Munster pack on the line. What difference would it make?

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041172#Comment_120041172

The talk was (or should have been) more about the 1-10. Munster were not far off first choice there (Snyman can hardly be counted as he’s almost like a new signing that just hasn’t arrived). We had Porter and Sheehan. Beyond that it was a collection of 2nd and 3rd string guys. The back line was where most of the front liners were. Leinster had a LH at TH and no recognised line out caller. Munster should have made more hay there than they did.

aloooof

That's the point tho; Leinster's depth is better than Munster's. So Munster missing 1st choice guys impacts them more than Leinster. That's been pretty oobvious for years now.

And the front row is a significant point of differentiation. Porter and Sheehan playing the 80 was huge for Leinster. And Munster did pretty well at scrum time (there was definitely a few more that could've went in our favour) and did pretty well in defence, despite a a nearly full strength Leinster backline; they never really cut us up.

There's a reasonable argument that Porter and Sheehan were the difference (despite protestations in the match thread that the front-row looks very competitive). I never saw it that way at all.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041214#Comment_120041214

Combination of his speed off the line, his ability to make accurate reads and his efficient low-tackling technique. He's the Connors/VdF of the operation, if a Leinster analogy helps.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041302#Comment_120041302

Simply put, Leinster are one of the best rugby teams (not clubs) on the planet, and the squad they sent below this week had 16 internationals and was of a calibre that could win a URC title.

And four months into a new coaching setup, Munster were two soft tries away from beating them.

That's how I'm looking at it.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041302#Comment_120041302

Ah here, there were more non first choice backs than otherwise. If there was a final on tomorrow only Ringrose, Lowe and Keenan would be sure to start. The 9/10/12 were all unequivocally second or third choice. Larmour would likely lose out to JOB.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041936#Comment_120041936

It’s definitely close between Larmour and JOB.

Ok, maybe not full strength, but neither were Munster is the point I’m making (despite us hearing at lot that they were).

Serbian

I think the point was more along the lines that Leinster chose to rest players who could have played if required, whereas Munster picked the best 23 they had available to them at the time.

Regardless, Munster defended superbly for the most part (they always do), but once O’Mahony went off and Beirne ran out of steam, Munster’s jackle threats were gone, allowing Leinster to effectively own the ball for the last 20 minutes. That was the real losing of the game for me.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042287#Comment_120042287

Maybe it’s just clunky wording. But to me, best 23 available is different to full-strength. For example, in the Aviva fixture, we played the best 23 available but absolutely nobody would call that full strength.

With regards the defence, I think overall, we’ve been a much less jackal-heavy team this season than last. I’d wager this game had the most jackal turnovers we’ve won all season.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042358#Comment_120042358

A couple injuries are to be expected though. Getting a truly “full strength” team at this point of the season is relatively implausible.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042363#Comment_120042363

OK but we were missing anywhere between 4-7 starters.

And even more beyond that, in particular in the 2nd row. (Snyman, Ahern, Edogo, Wycherley).

Leinster have significantly more depth; missing players higher up our depth chart hurts Munster more.

Podge_irl

Snyman can’t realistically be counted as missing as far as I’m concerned.

And yes it hurts Munster more but I think that was as close to a first choice side as teams get to. Granted they were hit particularly hard in the second row but if they can’t manage these kind of absences they aren’t going anywhere.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041302#Comment_120041302

Leinsters real area of superiority on paper was the outside backs. Porter was in trouble at the scrum and Healy isn’t a TH. So the scrum was an area that Munster should have gotten more change out of. Maybe a decision or two could have gone their way but Munster never once looked to be on top there in any significant way. They should have really.

21 year old McCarthy was calling the line outs for the first time ever and Munster had Beirne, Kleyn and POM who could all put pressure on him. Munster should have gotten more change out of the line out than they did. That’s one area that Munster should be very disappointed in.

The breakdown was an absolute mess which basically evened out the back lines a good bit given that they couldn’t really get into the game at all given the crap ball that was getting served up all game.

Munster should have won that, but they couldn’t get the dominance that they should have had at set piece and up front generally. The breakdown was a mess for everyone (and I have issues with Busby in that area) and so the 1-10 became more important as a result. And that’s where Munster should have had the edge. When you look at the talent and experience in Munsters selection (Killer, Ryan, Beirne, Kleyn, POM, Murray and Carbery all internationals themselves) then you have to acknowledge that they weren’t exactly lacking in that area.

sydthebeat

Deleted

Dave_The_Sheep

No need for that.