Discovery 2x06 - "The Sounds of Thunder" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Rawr

I really enjoyed that episode, I was having a good time. Far more focus on Saru, and not so much on Micheal, which I think might be why I enjoyed it more.

The Ba'ul where a well realised and designed nemisis, and the pacing overall was pretty good. I was rarely bored and finally felt like I was watching some good Trek. More like this please.

What I didn't like:

Cameras (again):
The scene near the beginning where they discuss the next Red Angel was dizzy as all hell. The camera was literally running around them in a circle while they spoke. STOP THIS FFS!!! The camera work in the rest of the episode was far better.

Micheal Sue:
"Micheal, you are our Xeno-paleontologist, go with Saru to the surface" Sounds a lot like a previous episode where Micheal "was the test pilot for the travel pods". I really hope they don't keep doing this, with Michael having the *exact* skill to resolve plot points.
"Hey Micheal, weren't you the one who invented the Red-Angel Stopper Ray?"

Slydice

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Most TV programs set in the 20th and 21st century are oddly silent about the Austro-Hungarian Empire too. If anything, Star Trek writers tendency to throw in easter egg references to internal history feels less natural than silence.

lol, yeah nobody sees any Austrians anymore

suuuuuurrreee

TheValeyard

Austrians are still keeping a low profile after helping cause WW1 and then giving the world Hitler

AMKC

bluewolf wrote: »

yeah they definitely reminded me of them

Me too. Them and the Sheliac.

pixelburp

Rawr wrote: »

I

Cameras (again):
The scene near the beginning where they discuss the next Red Angel was dizzy as all hell. The camera was literally running around them in a circle while they spoke. STOP THIS FFS!!! The camera work in the rest of the episode was far better.

I suspect this is a combination of insecurity over being too old school with the "boilerplate Trek conference", coupled with directors who don't know how to actually frame a simple mission briefing with any sense of urgency or traditionally effective compositions.

I like Trek's approach of making itself more cinematic - each episode has looked fantastic - but I suspect this interpretation of the cinematic is leaning too far into the breed of blockbuster that says it must have a constantly restless camera, ala your Michael Bay and so on.

To be fair though, in this episode the twirly camera happened once, while the rest of the story had sent really nice scene transitions

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

To be fair though, in this episode the twirly camera happened once, while the rest of the story had sent really nice scene transitions

I noticed that too. It really was just that ready-room chat that had the twirly camera. Every other shot came across as natural and easy on the eye. At no other point was I distracted by the camera work, I could just focus on what was actually being shown.

This might be part of the reason why I enjoyed this episode more than the rest. Far less visual noise...

Witcher

There was another scene later where the camera was just tilting back and forth at various degress for no reason at all, was on the bridge I think.

Rawr

Witcher wrote: »

There was another scene later where the camera was just tilting back and forth at various degress for no reason at all, was on the bridge I think.

I didn't notice that one...but I don't doubt it was there.

I remember an earlier episode where a 5-second shot involved Michael simply walking over to the turbolift. In earlier Trek, a shot like that would just have the camera pan over and follow the person towards the lift. However in the STD episode, the camera started to madly bounce from left to right while she walked over, it just looked silly.

Some Film School professor somewhere probably has a lot to answer for putting this kind of crap into photography director's heads.

Sad Professor

The circling camera is a standard enough technique. I didn't have a problem with it. It's a far cry from the acrobatics the camera was doing two weeks ago. It's a very exposition heavy show written by writers who presumedly aren't very visually-minded and prefer to tell rather than show the audience, so the crew/directors have to do a lot of heavy-lifting in order to make the show seem cinematic. There's another scene on the planet with Michael and Saru that felt stagey, which shows things can easily go the other way too. I like that they are trying to make the show visually interesting.

pixelburp

I think the circling camera is a tricky one to balance speed, placement and so on. Get it wrong and it's kind of nausea inducing, get it right and you don't really notice it consciously, only as a means to add urgency.

But in general I prefer Discovery to shoot for a cinematic look, even in this era of peak TV it's still rare enough that the space and latitude is given to build a palette like that

Goodshape

Sad Professor wrote: »

to make the show seem cinematic.

Not buying this more cinematic thing. Nauseating camera work during a stand-up conference scene isn't necessary for cinematic.

Mr Robot is coming to mind here but I'm sure there's plenty of examples of modern "cinematic" television that doesn't try to present every scene with the energy of an action movie. It just feels like incompetence or an attempt compensate for a a lack of faith in the script or the actors (maybe justifiably in some cases!).

This episode was better than others but it still really irritated me more than once. The conference scene and Saru and Burnham's walk on the beach being the worst offenders.

PhiloCypher

Rawr wrote: »

For some reason, they more reminded me of this guy:

Look at that Set. Replace Picard with Kirk and you'd think you were watching TOS.

fritzelly

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Look at that Set. Replace Picard with Kirk and you'd think you were watching TOS.

Simpler times

TheOrville

The sound of Flatulence.
Anson Mount when he's given any time, which isn't much, I like him, except again he's kind of second captain to Michael Burnham, there was two instances in week's episode where she basically told him what to do.
So we have both Burnham and Tyler being insubordinate to Pike this episode, Pike just stands there and takes it (after the disaster of Season 1 ,Pike is a idea of CBS bosses, SJW writers pissy so give him bad persona)

Send Saru and Michael Burnham down to planet, do they not send redshirts anymore? there like so secure they never send down security, I guess they don't need to because they have a superhero, Michael Burnham, so they go down there and then the sister gets upset, she tells them to piss off! but that notifies the Baddies that they are there and the sisters pissed off that Saru left because she thought he was a coward. Since their whole species is based on fear I figured being a coward would be you know probably good, probably accurate to his character, so I don't understand that logic but why should I. its Star Trek Discovery

Then we get a little back story, Saru picked up bits of pieces that fell of the baddies ship and Saru being basically from a stone age race was able to figure out the technology and put it together and send out signal to the galaxy, which starfleet picked up.

Michael Burnham figures out that if they use the spheres transmission from last episode, the sound waves can help the kelpie evolve. Alright well that all makes sense if you use the actual transmission if you're using light but if you're using the sound waves through space? I'm really not sure how that's gonna work, but maybe sound waves you know ……hey I'm not a scientist but neither is anybody working on Star Trek discovery!!! So those sound waves sent through space are gonna help the kelpian's evolve.
Saru sees the Red Angel, its got a female body, thought it was going to be Spock and i was right, super woman Mikey Spock.
It looks like we're gonna get Spock somewhat in next episode but I don't think he's gonna be there in person I think we're gonna see him in flashbacks or visions, so they can drag it out a little longer.

People love Star Trek, and because of that they want this to be a success, its not star trek, its rubbish.

Yester

TheOrville wrote: »

The sound of Flatulence.
Anson Mount when he's given any time, which isn't much, I like him, except again he's kind of second captain to Michael Burnham, there was two instances in week's episode where she basically told him what to do.
So we have both Burnham and Tyler being insubordinate to Pike this episode, Pike just stands there and takes it (after the disaster of Season 1 ,Pike is a idea of CBS bosses, SJW writers pissy so give him bad persona)

Send Saru and Michael Burnham down to planet, do they not send redshirts anymore? there like so secure they never send down security, I guess they don't need to because they have a superhero, Michael Burnham, so they go down there and then the sister gets upset, she tells them to piss off! but that notifies the Baddies that they are there and the sisters pissed off that Saru left because she thought he was a coward. Since their whole species is based on fear I figured being a coward would be you know probably good, probably accurate to his character, so I don't understand that logic but why should I. its Star Trek Discovery

Then we get a little back story, Saru picked up bits of pieces that fell of the baddies ship and Saru being basically from a stone age race was able to figure out the technology and put it together and send out signal to the galaxy, which starfleet picked up.

Michael Burnham figures out that if they use the spheres transmission from last episode, the sound waves can help the kelpie evolve. Alright well that all makes sense if you use the actual transmission if you're using light but if you're using the sound waves through space? I'm really not sure how that's gonna work, but maybe sound waves you know ……hey I'm not a scientist but neither is anybody working on Star Trek discovery!!! So those sound waves sent through space are gonna help the kelpian's evolve.
Saru sees the Red Angel, its got a female body, thought it was going to be Spock and i was right, super woman Mikey Spock.
It looks like we're gonna get Spock somewhat in next episode but I don't think he's gonna be there in person I think we're gonna see him in flashbacks or visions, so they can drag it out a little longer.

People love Star Trek, and because of that they want this to be a success, its not star trek, its rubbish.

Oh God, it's going to be Michael (hate that name for her) and Spock somehow reunited to become the Red Angel.

Saru used the alien tech to call starfleet the very first time so i didnt mind him being able to do it again in their hq, he obv had experience.
I thought the camera was fine this time, and it did bother me a lot either last week or previous

CramCycle

CastorTroy wrote: »

I'm not saying they need to do a better job of letting people know who characters are, but you know it's bad when even Tilly seems to struggle remembering Airiam's name.

I laughed out loud at that

Sad Professor wrote: »

The Trekkie in me can't help but be annoyed at how they hand waved the prime directive or how everyone seems to just ignore Pike's orders without any consequences. Also the way Michael just appears out of nowhere in the middle of scenes is weird. I laughed during the final scene when the camera panned to reveal that Michael was standing there all along.

Ignoring the price.e directive is pretty much staple Star Trek for 50years. The ignoring orders was awful though. I don't remember a Captain who would have tolerated such outbursts.

Goodshape wrote: »

Pike was a bit of a pushover in this episode.

Optimus Prime wrote: »

Could be future Spock traveling back in time, to change history(again) this time to manipulate events to stop the destruction of Romulus and Vulcan , un-do what his first time travel caused and stop the JJ timeline from being created in the first place.

Ignoring the JJ bit, Spock is my strongest guess outside of an alien.

GSPfan

I really liked that episode. Felt like a mini movie almost. Saru getting superpowers is interesting. Hope they don’t just forget that now as he literally was ripping metal apart and then firing darts from his head.

I have to say it again this week, Burnham is doing my head in. She is also undermining Pike in every scene. Pike is coming across as an idiot who can’t make a decision without Burnhams direction. She spoon feeds him his course of action on everything.

There was some extreme conveniences with Saru building a communicator out of nothing and also the fast paced world wide puberty acceleration. I can overlook them from the point of annoyance but it still is just too convenient to ignore.

I’m fully expecting the Red Angel to be Burnham, or Burnhams mother, or something related to Burnham. The only way I’ll accept it as a good thing is if it somehow kills her off the show. I will never fully enjoy this show until they do something about Burnham. Having to watch her “confused thinking face” for everything that happens is annoying me now.

AtomicHorror

bluewolf wrote: »

Saru used the alien tech to call starfleet the very first time so i didnt mind him being able to do it again in their hq, he obv had experience.
I thought the camera was fine this time, and it did bother me a lot either last week or previous

Except maybe the spinny-rotaty map scene. That was some impressive CGI and really unpleasant to watch.

Rawr wrote: »

Micheal Sue:

For the love of god. People have to stop with this.

GSPfan wrote: »

I really liked that episode. Felt like a mini movie almost. Saru getting superpowers is interesting. Hope they don’t just forget that now as he literally was ripping metal apart and then firing darts from his head.

Wasn't he always super strong? Running at something like 80kph on Pahvo, taking multiple phaser stun shots, crushing communicators with his bare hands? His mirror counterpart killed someone in pretty spectacular fashion if I remember rightly.

The darts are new, though maybe not under his direct control just yet.

AtomicHorror

I really liked this episode.

The visual and audio design of the Ba'ul and their technology was great fun. Classically over-the-top evil bad guys with evil deep gravelly voices voices and an evil look. Somewhere between Armus and the girl from The Ring. I don't see the political outlook improving on Kaminar any time soon!

Burnham's scenes with Saru were good too- as with Tilly, Burnham's always most likeable when she's 1-to-1 with her friends.

Stamets and Culber- good scene. Stamets is misty-eyed and overjoyed, Culber has PTSD. Trouble ahead, I guess, but it doesn't feel heavy-handed.

Pike excellent as always. Those annoyed at how he took Saru's insubordination- I see Pike as very thoughtful pragmatic leader. He could see this was abnormal behaviour under unique conditions and was trying to get the measure of it before a potentially irreversible escalation.

pixelburp

Yeah the little Stamets-Culber scene was good, even managing to link with the thematic element of the main plot. Anthony Rapp did a great job, selling the scene with his face; you could really see the mix of emotions written on his face, that desperate, puppy like eagerness that everything was fine & back to normal.

corkie

GSPfan wrote: »

I have to say it again this week, Burnham is doing my head in. She is also undermining Pike in every scene. Pike is coming across as an idiot who can’t make a decision without Burnhams direction. She spoon feeds him his course of action on everything.

Captains getting advice from underlings and crew has long been a featured. TNG ready room meetings/dialogue for example.

corkie

corkie wrote: »

Captains getting advice from underlings and crew has long been a featured. TNG ready room meetings/dialogue for example.

I do agree, in part, they need to let the other crew members shine a bit more.
I used get annoyed with Data being that super answer character in TNG (or 7 in Voy).

Burnham can be the central character, I quite like her of late, just give us some of the others too.

TheValeyard

corkie wrote: »

Captains getting advice from underlings and crew has long been a featured. TNG ready room meetings/dialogue for example.

At least this season Discovery added seats to the ready room

AtomicHorror

TheOrville wrote: »

So we have both Burnham and Tyler being insubordinate to Pike this episode, Pike just stands there and takes it (after the disaster of Season 1 ,Pike is a idea of CBS bosses, SJW writers pissy so give him bad persona).

SJWs writing Star Trek? That would be unprecedented.

Burnham wasn't insubordinate, she was trying to give Pike an out that didn't involve putting Saru in the brig. That was clearly not what Pike wanted, and for good reason. Saru's been an excellent first officer to Pike to date, and his record prior to that would be well known to Pike too. Excessive escalation could destroy Saru's entire career over what Pike could clearly see was exceptionally odd behaviour from Saru.

Sure, a 1960's manager would've fired him on the spot, but it's not the 1960's anymore.

Tyler is not a member of Pike's crew and has his own agenda.

TheOrville wrote: »

Send Saru and Michael Burnham down to planet, do they not send redshirts anymore?

It was supposed to be a softly-softly approach. Landing on a planet inhabited by a species that is jumpy at the best of times, with a full security team? I can't imagine any Starfleet captain making a blunder like that.

TheOrville wrote: »

there like so secure they never send down security, I guess they don't need to because they have a superhero, Michael Burnham

You forgot to call her a Mary Sue!

TheOrville wrote: »

tso I don't understand that logic but why should I. its Star Trek Discovery

You don't like Discovery, that's evident. Loads of people recommended Peaky Blinders to me. I gave it 3 episodes and quit. It's a grand show, but just not for me, particularly when I barely have time to watch 1-2 shows in a week.

You've been watching Discovery for 21 episodes. What gives?

TheOrville wrote: »

Then we get a little back story, Saru picked up bits of pieces that fell of the baddies ship and Saru being basically from a stone age race was able to figure out the technology and put it together and send out signal to the galaxy, which starfleet picked up.

That's a synopsis of The Brightest Star, a short episode that is well worth a watch. If you feel like another 20 minutes of a show you hate.

TheOrville wrote: »

Michael Burnham figures out that if they use the spheres transmission from last episode, the sound waves can help the kelpie evolve.

She doesn't do that alone, very much a team effort along with Tilly and Airiam, and actually it is Saru who figures out how to transmit it.

TheOrville wrote: »

Alright well that all makes sense if you use the actual transmission if you're using light but if you're using the sound waves through space? I'm really not sure how that's gonna work, but maybe sound waves you know ……hey I'm not a scientist but neither is anybody working on Star Trek discovery!!! So those sound waves sent through space are gonna help the kelpian's evolve.

The signal was transmitted via communicator to Saru, who relayed it from the Ba'ul stronghold out to the obelisk network. The obelisks played the soundwaves.

TheOrville wrote: »

People love Star Trek, and because of that they want this to be a success, its not star trek, its rubbish.

Another arbiter of what real Star Trek is. That never gets old. And I suppose you can judge real Star Trek fans from the poseurs, too?

I think you're coming at Discovery with a massive prejudice. Panning an episode despite getting basic plot points wrong. You really need the rest of us to be wrong or delusional somehow, I guess because you feel left out of something the rest of us are enjoying.

liamtech

TheOrville wrote: »

The sound of Flatulence.
Anson Mount when he's given any time, which isn't much, I like him, except again he's kind of second captain to Michael Burnham, there was two instances in week's episode where she basically told him what to do.
So we have both Burnham and Tyler being insubordinate to Pike this episode, Pike just stands there and takes it (after the disaster of Season 1 ,Pike is a idea of CBS bosses, SJW writers pissy so give him bad persona)

Send Saru and Michael Burnham down to planet, do they not send redshirts anymore? there like so secure they never send down security, I guess they don't need to because they have a superhero, Michael Burnham, so they go down there and then the sister gets upset, she tells them to piss off! but that notifies the Baddies that they are there and the sisters pissed off that Saru left because she thought he was a coward. Since their whole species is based on fear I figured being a coward would be you know probably good, probably accurate to his character, so I don't understand that logic but why should I. its Star Trek Discovery

Then we get a little back story, Saru picked up bits of pieces that fell of the baddies ship and Saru being basically from a stone age race was able to figure out the technology and put it together and send out signal to the galaxy, which starfleet picked up.

Michael Burnham figures out that if they use the spheres transmission from last episode, the sound waves can help the kelpie evolve. Alright well that all makes sense if you use the actual transmission if you're using light but if you're using the sound waves through space? I'm really not sure how that's gonna work, but maybe sound waves you know ……hey I'm not a scientist but neither is anybody working on Star Trek discovery!!! So those sound waves sent through space are gonna help the kelpian's evolve.
Saru sees the Red Angel, its got a female body, thought it was going to be Spock and i was right, super woman Mikey Spock.
It looks like we're gonna get Spock somewhat in next episode but I don't think he's gonna be there in person I think we're gonna see him in flashbacks or visions, so they can drag it out a little longer.

People love Star Trek, and because of that they want this to be a success, its not star trek, its rubbish.

See i honestly dont mind criticism. I liked this episodes but i have criticized DISCO in the past. last two episodes were terrible in my mind

But your final statement is outrageous.

please do yourself and us a favor and acknowledge that 'IN YOUR OPINION' its not star trek.. 'In your opinion' its rubbish.. You are not the gatekeeper of canon or Reali-Trek..

Also given your user name its fairly obvious you like the Orville.. i have no problem with this its an ok show.. but please be advised that while Disco 'is not trek in your opinion'.. The Orville is not trek.. period

Greyjoy

Good episode overall but it didn't get off to a great start with the Saru narration. These monologues feel a bit too self-important and pretentious. To borrow a line from the "Greatest Discovery" podcast the show is starting to feel like "Star Trek : Grey's Anatomy" now. The spinning briefing room was another annoyance. It's an exposition scene - you can't inject tension just by spinning the camera like a merry-go-round.

But it was an interesting story otherwise. Even if it feels like the overall arc of the 'red angel' has only progressed by inches. I felt the Ba'ul design while it looked impressive was just a bit heavy handed sinister. It might have added a bit more mystery if the Ba'ul reveal was much more non-threatening (after all they were the original prey species on the planet).

CramCycle

Greyjoy wrote: »

But it was an interesting story otherwise. Even if it feels like the overall arc of the 'red angel' has only progressed by inches. I felt the Ba'ul design while it looked impressive was just a bit heavy handed sinister. It might have added a bit more mystery if the Ba'ul reveal was much more non-threatening (after all they were the original prey species on the planet).

I liked that we didn't see them, they could have just left it that way, wouldn't have affected the story at all. It was weird that they just left Saru alone after he broke free, lets just ignore him in that room, as he does stuff.

Greyjoy

CramCycle wrote: »

I liked that we didn't see them, they could have just left it that way, wouldn't have affected the story at all. It was weird that they just left Saru alone after he broke free, lets just ignore him in that room, as he does stuff.

Yeah not showing the Ba'ul at all might have worked better, just have them interact with Saru & his sister via the drones. It could have emphasised the fact that the Ba'ul still have that fear of the Kelpians. But i suppose the writers needed a way for Saru to activate his new head darts. I agree that it was odd that the Ba'ul let Saru smash up the drones and contact Discovery without reacting to him. It almost felt like Austin Powers "I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation that would allow an overly elaborate and exotic death".

AtomicHorror

Greyjoy wrote: »

It might have added a bit more mystery if the Ba'ul reveal was much more non-threatening (after all they were the original prey species on the planet).

For some reason I have in mind the "reveal" of the aliens at the start of Star Trek Beyond. Or Gaknar from Buffy.

Greyjoy wrote: »

Yeah not showing the Ba'ul at all might have worked better, just have them interact with Saru & his sister via the drones. It could have emphasised the fact that the Ba'ul still have that fear of the Kelpians. But i suppose the writers needed a way for Saru to activate his new head darts. I agree that it was odd that the Ba'ul let Saru smash up the drones and contact Discovery without reacting to him. It almost felt like Austin Powers "I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation that would allow an overly elaborate and exotic death".

I more read it that the Ba'ul wanted to show up to demonstrate how not afraid they are and then... you know, just go away and hide a bit- not afraid!

They were also dealing with an escalating political storm and someone hijacking their network, but I'm not sure the guy who's job it is to taunt prisoners is also responsible for those things.

Mind you the interrogator sounded identical to the voice over comms to Discovery. Maybe they all sound that way all the time.

The thing that bothers me most about super-menacing alien voices is how impractical they are. Does a Ba'ul tax clerk sound like that when he's asking for extra cheese in his wrap at lunchtime? Do they sound like that when they remind their Ba'ul life partner to pick up dishwasher tabs on the way home?