Skint Britain Channel 4

Idbatterim

Wibbs wrote: »

I've paid a shit ton of tax in my life and a chunk of that went towards social welfare payments of all kinds("dole heads" are a minority of such payments) and yes while I have major issues in how government and public service types spend/waste that money in quite a few areas and yes there are lifetime scroungers, I would still prefer all that than the UK setup, or god forbid the American one. It might impact me as an individual at times, but it's far better for the society.

that attitude is no doubt easier to adopt if you arent young or are already a homeowner! working people on low incomes struggling to pay for this **** show, will have a totally different perspective. Commuting past generational families of wasters on a miserable commute, from the back arse or nowhere down to the docklands for instance, where you have generations of wasters living in prime locations, paying miniscule rent with the free money they get from the taxpayer. Throwing a life time of free money at them, isnt a solution or one the uk, germany, us accept and Id agree with it.

They were no doubt failed by their parents, then the state in a way. But I dont think just saying, "here, have hundreds of thosands of taxpayer money for the rest of your life" while workers struggle is an option. For the total lost causes, give them a once of tens of thousands while young, if they have the snip!

4068ac1elhodqr

Whilst the uk has low unemployment, it's worth noting that many of these 'new jobs' are either zero-hours contracts, temporary or part-time (gig-economy).

As Jezza Corbyn tells May each week, the rich get richer (generous property relief and trust funds to avoid any meaningful inheritance tax), and the poor get poorer, in the world's 5th economy.




Guess world rank really means very little, the #1 (US) NW region is still in the grip of a drugs epidemic, 100,000 users in Chicago on horse 'n crack. Plenty of no-go areas, then there's Detroit...

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

that attitude is no doubt easier to adopt if you arent young or are already a homeowner!

or someone who isn't a home owner and who is young, but is pragmatic.

Idbatterim wrote: »

working people on low incomes struggling to pay for this **** show, will have a totally different perspective.

some indeed will. others won't because they realise there is little alternative. at least not one that costs less and delivers a better society.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Commuting past generational families of wasters on a miserable commute, from the back arse or nowhere down to the docklands for instance, where you have generations of wasters living in prime locations, paying miniscule rent with the free money they get from the taxpayer.

nothing can be done to change that. even if all wellfare dependants in dublin or other cities were socially cleansed from the cities to the back arse of nowhere with all that brings, this would still continue to happen due to the housing market.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Throwing a life time of free money at them, isnt a solution or one the uk, germany, us accept and Id agree with it.

it may not be something the US and uk accept, but unlike germany they don't implement an actual workable alternative and their societies show it with the rampent poverty and crime.
you can agree with the uk and US away, that is your problem and ultimately doesn't matter, but the thing is, it's not about you but aboute the cost to society and in that regard, the uk and especially the us system is a complete failure which does nothing for society

Idbatterim wrote: »

They were no doubt failed by their parents, then the state in a way. But I dont think just saying, "here, have hundreds of thosands of taxpayer money for the rest of your life" while workers struggle is an option. For the total lost causes, give them a once of tens of thousands while young, if they have the snip!

if there were other viable options they would be implemented. the state isn't giving such people money for the hell of it. they are doing it, because they believe that while it does cost a bit, the monitary cost outweighs the likely costs of not doing so.

Wibbs

Idbatterim wrote: »

that attitude is no doubt easier to adopt if you arent young or are already a homeowner! working people on low incomes struggling to pay for this **** show, will have a totally different perspective.

Well I was young once and not a homeowner and coming of age in the 1980's with high taxation, feck all jobs, much higher unemployment and low wages and expensive and hard to access credit and a rush to the ports and airports to get out of the place among my peers and still I didn't begrudge genuine cases, of which there are many, if not most. And I was never on the dole, was paying taxes to beat the band and didn't take social welfare until I ended up being a carer and that was only for the last three years of ten where I supported myself and the person in need and all the expense of that until my savings ran out and I was in the red. And I wouldn't have begrudged someone who had gone to the social welfare for help earlier than I did. Indeed I was a bit of a fool not to(not just the money, such as it was, more the extra supports that come with it. Homecare and such).

Idbatterim

Wibbs I respect your posts and you as a poster. But I and many people I know, are taking a hit to my standard of living, to pay for this. The politicians here just do what they think is easiest. I don’t agree with letting people just rot on the dole, they should be retrained or upskilled etc. it’s buying the problem off and sweeping it under the rug. I don’t morally agree with it.

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

Wobbs I respect your posts and you as a poster. But I and many people I know, are taking a hit to my standard of living, to pay for this.

the thing is, even if the wellfare system did change to something like the uk or US, you wouldn't be getting a reduction in taxes. so unfortunately you would still be taking a hit, as would i, and everyone else.

Idbatterim wrote: »

The politicians here just do what they think is easiest.

in a lot of cases yes, however i am not sure that is the case for wellfare. the government are likely doing what is pragmatic given the funds we have available.

Idbatterim wrote: »

I don’t agree with letting people just rot on the dole, they should be retrained or upskilled etc. it’s buying the problem off and sweeping it under the rug. I don’t morally agree with it.

the thing is, there are only so many that can be retrained or upskilled given that there are only a certain amount of jobs that are availible in a country, and there will be competition for those from existing candidates. we certainly do need to do better at attracting more companies, but as it is, our unemployment rate seems to be falling. those who want to work will do so, even if they are out of the work place for a long time. the few who actually don't want to work, who would want them working with them or for them anyway?
we'd all love to live in a society where there is a job for everyone but unfortunately those days are gone. mechanisation finished that off and who knows what automation will ultimately bring.
there is no way the problem is being swept under the rug, we know the problem exists. however unless we can find a way with a guaranteed good return at reasonable cost, and which causes no problem but solves the actual problem, then it seems the government are just doing what is felt is the most viable and practical option given our limited funding. so nothing is being bought off here, just that the type of wellfare system you would like isn't workable or achievable and we have the fallout from countries like the UK and US to show this from what i can see.

fritzelly

Just seen the last episode - what struck me, throughout the three episodes, is that it didn't show anyone even trying to find a job, just bemoaning how bad the welfare state is and other more seriously bad behaviour like showing your face on camera then going to rob drug dealers, or get a loan off loan shark then threaten them with knives when it was payment day or not bothering to pay your rent even tho you had been given the money to pay it.
Whilst the program highlighted the difficulties with the system it certainly didn't focus on the best of society rather the habitual benefitters (bar the blind mand and the one woman who had always worked and then was out of a job)

fin12

fritzelly wrote: »

Just seen the last episode - what struck me, throughout the three episodes, is that it didn't show anyone even trying to find a job, just bemoaning how bad the welfare state is and other more seriously bad behaviour like showing your face on camera then going to rob drug dealers, or get a loan off loan shark then threaten them with knives when it was payment day or not bothering to pay your rent even tho you had been given the money to pay it.
Whilst the program highlighted the difficulties with the system it certainly didn't focus on the best of society rather the habitual benefitters (bar the blind mand and the one woman who had always worked and then was out of a job)

Because they are not employable, why is it that society thinks everyone can work? They can’t even understand what they are suppose d to do to keep their universal credit? Even when they get a letter saying ur payment is €6 for the month they don’t even try to figure out why? I’m not talking about the blind man but the couple, they just f*ck off and go robbing instead and ye think these people can be in paid employment.

fritzelly

Anyone under 40 even 50 who is unemployable is such because they have made themselves so
Fine if there is no jobs, like Hartlepool, but don't make excuses for knackers
Everyone gets education for free and in the uk and Ireland it's not a choice, you go to school. Unless you have a mental disability then no excuse. Some of the shows participants were far from stupid

ChikiChiki

I think our system is far too generous and the British system far too harsh. There is a middleground there somewhere. Incentives to not work in Ireland are fairly attractive.

klaaaz

Idbatterim wrote: »

Wibbs I respect your posts and you as a poster. But I and many people I know, are taking a hit to my standard of living, to pay for this. The politicians here just do what they think is easiest. I don’t agree with letting people just rot on the dole, they should be retrained or upskilled etc. it’s buying the problem off and sweeping it under the rug. I don’t morally agree with it.

So you ignore the OPFP claimants with their "freebies" , ignore the high welfare pension payments and keep lashing out at the dole as the cause of all your misery, you'd be an excellent writer for the tabloids!

As for your standard of living and assuming you made the right choices in life, the recent cost of the childrens hospital, a couple of billion spent on Irish Water and god knows what on the forthcoming broadband plan, repaying the banking debt and our beloved politicians pay rises all play a part. Let's begrudge the dole recipient trying to fee themselves though, easier target.

fritzelly wrote: »

Anyone under 40 even 50 who is unemployable is such because they have made themselves so
Fine if there is no jobs, like Hartlepool, but don't make excuses for knackers
Everyone gets education for free and in the uk and Ireland it's not a choice, you go to school. Unless you have a mental disability then no excuse. Some of the shows participants were far from stupid

Some people who worked all their lives do get redundant in their 40's and 50's and find it very difficult to get another job due to ageism in the hiring process. Education is not free in Ireland, ask any parents about school and college fees. And a good education depends on which school a child attended, flash the cash and your child can attend a privileged private school and end up qualifying to be a doctor or a solicitor.

fritzelly

Not talking about peple who have worked the past 20/30 years

Idbatterim

“So you ignore the OPFP claimants with their "freebies" , ignore the high welfare pension payments and keep lashing out at the dole as the cause of all your misery, you'd be an excellent writer for the tabloids!

As for your standard of living and assuming you made the right choices in life, the recent cost of the childrens hospital, a couple of billion spent on Irish Water and god knows what on the forthcoming broadband plan, repaying the banking debt and our beloved politicians pay rises all play a part. Let's begrudge the dole recipient trying to fee themselves though, easier target.”

I said the off the wall welfare state. Of course that includes the most pampered demographic of pensioners. Why are rte never doing any documentaries on the welfare state here ? Why can’t this be discussed in the open here ! The ajh brigade bemoaning everything here. They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

No tds etc will challenge their bs either. Ive heard the tories tear into them over there. I think it’s fine to question the welfare state with our massive national debt, joke infrastructure, not enough prison spaces to lock up dangerous scum etc ...

end of the road

Idbatterim wrote: »

“So you ignore the OPFP claimants with their "freebies" , ignore the high welfare pension payments and keep lashing out at the dole as the cause of all your misery, you'd be an excellent writer for the tabloids!

As for your standard of living and assuming you made the right choices in life, the recent cost of the childrens hospital, a couple of billion spent on Irish Water and god knows what on the forthcoming broadband plan, repaying the banking debt and our beloved politicians pay rises all play a part. Let's begrudge the dole recipient trying to fee themselves though, easier target.”

I said the off the wall welfare state. Of course that includes the most pampered demographic of pensioners. Why are rte never doing any documentaries on the welfare state here ? Why can’t this be discussed in the open here ! The ajh brigade bemoaning everything here. They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

No tds etc will challenge their bs either. Ive heard the tories tear into them over there. I think it’s fine to question the welfare state with our massive national debt, joke infrastructure, not enough prison spaces to lock up dangerous scum etc ...

presumably rte aren't doing programs on the wellfare state because there is little demand for them? that wouldn't surprise me tbh. people have better things to watch and do then some agenda driven wellfare program. especially when the likes of channel 5 have plenty of those on offer all be it about the uk wellfare state. mind you for someone who wants to watch a program and to get angry at those on wellfare, any wellfare system and program should surely do?
as for this myth that wellfare can't be discussed in the open. who exactly is stopping us from discussing it in the open? certainly not the media given wellfare is discussed across talk radio programs from time to time and you will find wellfare stories from time to time within the papers where relevant.
the tories in the uk rip into everyone. britain is in the mess it is in because of much of their policies. from 1979 to 1997 and after 2010 when they got back in. they are a party which have no credibility.
like i said, even if we were to change the wellfare system to a UK or US style one, there would be no tax reductions and all other issues would remain. you can only have tax reductions or improved infrastructure, you can't have both.

ToddyDoody

Idbatterim wrote: »

I said the off the wall welfare state. Of course that includes the most pampered demographic of pensioners. Why are rte never doing any documentaries on the welfare state here ? Why can’t this be discussed in the open here ! The ajh brigade bemoaning everything here. They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

TV3 kindof did a few:

https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2056735264?

https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2057692457#102253613

In many ways they're the television equivalent of trolling.

klaaaz

Idbatterim wrote: »

They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

No tds etc will challenge their bs either. Ive heard the tories tear into them over there. I think it’s fine to question the welfare state with our massive national debt, joke infrastructure, not enough prison spaces to lock up dangerous scum etc ...

The low paid do not pay the marginal rate of income tax, where did you spring that from?
And if you want more prison spaces(and public services), that will cost more in income tax to put it up on the same rate our continental cousins. You really do need to look at income tax rates in Euroland, it's quite high compared to here.

fin12

Idbatterim wrote: »

“So you ignore the OPFP claimants with their "freebies" , ignore the high welfare pension payments and keep lashing out at the dole as the cause of all your misery, you'd be an excellent writer for the tabloids!

As for your standard of living and assuming you made the right choices in life, the recent cost of the childrens hospital, a couple of billion spent on Irish Water and god knows what on the forthcoming broadband plan, repaying the banking debt and our beloved politicians pay rises all play a part. Let's begrudge the dole recipient trying to fee themselves though, easier target.”

I said the off the wall welfare state. Of course that includes the most pampered demographic of pensioners. Why are rte never doing any documentaries on the welfare state here ? Why can’t this be discussed in the open here ! The ajh brigade bemoaning everything here. They should be fckuing thankful, the ignorant morons live in a country where low paid are Paying a marginal tax rate fit for the wolf of Wall Street and they have the gall to complain about the world class welfare state and every bloody effort and change the state gives them here? I don’t have an ounce of sympathy.

No tds etc will challenge their bs either. Ive heard the tories tear into them over there. I think it’s fine to question the welfare state with our massive national debt, joke infrastructure, not enough prison spaces to lock up dangerous scum etc ...

There are plenty welfare bashing threads on here to talk about it to your hearts content.

To be honest those welfare programs are actually very depressing. Would definitely not like to see an Irish one beeen made.

fin12

klaaaz wrote: »

The low paid do not pay the marginal rate of income tax, where did you spring that from?
And if you want more prison spaces(and public services), that will cost more in income tax to put it up on the same rate our continental cousins. You really do need to look at income tax rates in Euroland, it's quite high compared to here.

Ya I couldn’t understand that, was he trying to say low paid workers pay 40% tax.??