Manchester United v Liverpool 24/2/2019 k/o 14.05 Sky

Rayne Wooney

I think if he wins nothing this season Liverpool fans will start to ponder “what could X manager do with this team” and that will be the beginning of the end for Kloppenball.

Some of those players will consider leaving whilst their stock is highest if they aren’t winning anything. Salah the main one.

gimli2112

I'm sensing we're passing the calm before the storm stage.

Kind of feel bad for the general premier league thread this week, might pop in and say hello

bennyineire

jayo26 wrote: »

Your dead right as I said at start of season klopps job is safe as houses because Liverpool have different standards to the rest of top clubs.

Pool just want to be up there in the reckoning at the end of the season because of where they come from they won't say a manager needs to win the league or a cup to progress this club.

I think it's just a fear of dropping back to where they were before klopp took over and as we see a few posts up any argument against nor winning the league is based on reminding people oh we were a Europa league club without klopp.

So yeah klopp is safe enough just keep them up there doesn't even need to win a cup because they just get in the way.

Versus the Man U model of sacking a manager every year and still finishing outside the top 4 most season

If you truly believe that Manchester United club has been better managed as a whole over the last few years then you sir are truly deluded. I'm looking forward to your meltdown and Pogba blaming come Sunday 15:50

jayo26

bennyineire wrote: »

Versus the Man U model of sacking a manager every year and still finishing outside the top 4 most season

If you truly believe that Manchester United club has been better managed as a whole over the last few years then you sir are truly deluded. I'm looking forward to your meltdown and Pogba blaming come Sunday 15:50

If you truly believe I mentioned or compaired Man United to Liverpool in that post then you sir truly cant read!!!!

I don't think you will find any United fan that thinks the club has been managed well in the past 5 years so that's pretty mute point eitherway.

Backstreet Moyes

yourdeadwright wrote: »

8-10 wrote: »

No chance he'd be sacked, think you're way off on that but maybe you don't follow the situation at Liverpool closely enough

Shows how out of touch United fans are,

Jurgen he has improved Liverpool every single season without fail since he took over,

I guess they can't remember how bad Liverpool have been since the Rafa days,

Champions league final in our first season back which no one seen coming,

Joint top in Feb this season which no one seen coming,

Fair enough no trophy yet but year on year improvement so far if it continues the trophies will come,

Pretty stupid commenting on all United fans based on 1 persons opinion

As a United fan I find the idea laughable he is doing a fantastic job

DARK-KNIGHT

bennyineire wrote: »

Versus the Man U model of sacking a manager every year and still finishing outside the top 4 most season

If you truly believe that Manchester United club has been better managed as a whole over the last few years then you sir are truly deluded. I'm looking forward to your meltdown and Pogba blaming come Sunday 15:50

We sack a manager every year??
We finish outside of the top 4 most seasons?

You a pool fan is calling anyone deluded?

Get off that high horse there will you

The levels of delusional crap talk outta you in this post could make you fall off and land on a ��

You lot have won nothing under klopp and thats not gonna change this season

Dont worry though next year and all that

yourdeadwright

Nuts102 wrote: »

Pretty stupid commenting on all United fans based on 1 persons opinion

As a United fan I find the idea laughable he is doing a fantastic job

Sorry I should have said "some " my bad

bennyineire

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

We sack a manager every year??
We finish outside of the top 4 most seasons?

You a pool fan is calling anyone deluded?

Get off that high horse there will you

The levels of delusional crap talk outta you in this post could make you fall off and land on a ��

You lot have won nothing under klopp and thats not gonna change this season

Dont worry though next year and all that

Last 5 season 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd
This season ?

Managers in the last 5 seasons = 5

yourdeadwright

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

We finish outside of the top 4 most seasons?

Strangely enough that part he said is true since Fergie left,

2 top four finishes and 3 outside of the top four

I'm not mathematician but 3 is greater than 2 so that means most season you finish out side of the top four ,

There have been four full season's since Ferige left , ( this one will make it 5 when its over)

Jose, Ole, Moyes , Van Gaal so one a full season so far

ebbsy

ebbsy wrote: »

Liverpool will envelop United in a cocoon of horror.

That's...beautiful Ebbsy.

I'm personally hoping that we seduce Liverpool into a quagmire of discomfiture.

fyfe79

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

You lot have won nothing under klopp and thats not gonna change this season

Dont worry though next year and all that

"Go City", eh?

gstack166

citytillidie wrote: »

When has a manager been sacked for improving a club?[/quote

Brendan Rodgers

gstack166

citytillidie wrote: »

gstack166 wrote: »

2nd - 6th is not improving a team

He didn’t finish 6th though did he? He got the road in October or November, he had 6 months of the season remaining.

You’re deluded if you think he didn’t improve that team in his 4 years. Don’t talk rot.

citytillidie

gstack166 wrote: »

Brendan Rodgers

2nd to 6th is not improving a team

citytillidie

gstack166 wrote: »

citytillidie wrote: »

He didn’t finish 6th though did he? He got the road in October or November, he had 6 months of the season remaining.

You’re deluded if you think he didn’t improve that team in his 4 years. Don’t talk rot.

He did finish 6th with a 6-1 loss to Stoke City, he was replaced on October 15th 2015, Liverpool finished 2nd in the 2013-14 season so he had another full season and finished 6th, crashing out of the Champions League at the group stage and getting knocked out in the round of 32 in the Europa League

gstack166

citytillidie wrote: »

gstack166 wrote: »

He did finish 6th with a 6-1 loss to Stoke City, he was replaced on October 15th 2015, Liverpool finished 2nd in the 2013-14 season so he had another full season and finished 6th, crashing out of the Champions League at the group stage and getting knocked out in the round of 32 in the Europa League

Did he or did he not improve that team, which was the original message I was replying to. Did he do a good job? Did he deserve another year?

If your answer is no, then the question asked about Klopp being under pressure for his job in the summer should they finish trophykess is a fair one, (even if I think there’s zero chance of it happening)

8-10

gstack166 wrote: »

citytillidie wrote: »

When has a manager been sacked for improving a club?

Brendan Rodgers

He wasn't sacked after finishing with 84pts and finishing 2nd in the league though. He stayed another season and finished on 62pts in 7th place. He improved the club and got that run to 2nd place in 2014 but there was a noticeable decline the following season.....and even then he wasn't sacked despite the drop in league places in 2015, losing in CL group stage, not qualifying in CL and losing 6-1 to Stoke on the final day of the season. He was still allowed another pre-season to turn it around, and it was only when it got to October in 2015/16 season that he was finally sacked in 10th position in the league.

Overall you might be right that he improved the team but you can't ignore the decline after finishing 2nd. That season was a win or bust in hindsight, there was no building upon a great season and we lost our best player. Think of his tenure like a bell curve, started low, brought us up high, but then went back down without any signs of being able to bring it back up again.

If Klopp finishes top 4 with 84pts this season, say, he won't be sacked. He'll still get next season same as Rodgers. My personal feeling comparing the 2 is that in 2014 it seemed like we had a chance and it fell into our lap, but that was driven by a crazy run of wins at the right time in a year when there was no team close to the current City team in the league so 84pts got you 2nd. With this team I feel this isn't our only chance. I don't think if we finish 2nd or 3rd this season that we've missed our chance and will regress to 7th next season. This looks to be a strong team, young, with key players on long contracts and really good morale around the club.

Rodgers improved the club overall and left it in decent shape. But you can't ignore the 18 months of decline and failure to replace key players as being key to his departure. It was a definite disimprovement and clear to everybody that the club was moving in the wrong direction. I'm still happy he was manager, and I still wish him well at Celtic as well as I wish Gerrard well at Rangers, but the time was right for him to leave because of the disimprovement. If in 2020/21 season Klopp is out of Europe and has us mid table and below having lost Alisson, Salah, VVD etc and replaced them terribly then we can assess exactly the same situation - he'll have improved us overall but it might be a better time to let somebody else try.

Rodgers definitely wasn't sacked despite improvements, it was a downward trajectory that had us in the same spot in the table we were before he arrived

TitianGerm

I think I speak for everyone here when I say - "quote posts properly". Jesus it's fecking annoying :pac:

mada999

fancy utd to go all out defend in this game and try to nick a goal.. then defend for the rest of the game.

Liverpool have to watch the hoof ball to Rashford or Martial...

The blueprint to stifle the new utd is to put a man on Pogba and watch out for the above...

the game can go either way imo... if utd score first Liverpool are in trouble....

citytillidie

gstack166 wrote: »

Did he or did he not improve that team, which was the original message I was replying to. Did he do a good job? Did he deserve another year?

If your answer is no, then the question asked about Klopp being under pressure for his job in the summer should they finish trophykess is a fair one, (even if I think there’s zero chance of it happening)

Looking back on it now, he got lucky in one season with so many rival teams making changes, and having the best strike partnership in the league carrying him in so many games. When the dust settled he did not improve the team and really should have been sacked after losing 6-1 to Stoke City never mind getting a summer transfer window and 3 extra months in charge.

TitianGerm

TitianGerm wrote: »

I think I speak for everyone here when I say - "quote posts properly". Jesus it's fecking annoying :pac:

I was literally about to post the same thing.
Yourdeadright, can I ask what way are you quoting posts for this to constantly happen!?

Like just click quote and type below the closed brackets, that's all :P

8-10

gstack166 wrote: »

Did he or did he not improve that team, which was the original message I was replying to. Did he do a good job? Did he deserve another year?

If your answer is no, then the question asked about Klopp being under pressure for his job in the summer should they finish trophykess is a fair one, (even if I think there’s zero chance of it happening)

He deserved what he got - a full preseason and a couple of months into the year to see if the previous season was a blip or if we would continue to decline. At 10th in the table we could have kept him on, but the board gambled on a change because Klopp became available. Given what we know now - no, he didn't deserve another year at the expense of Klopp coming in given that Klopp would have gone elsewhere and we would have had to get somebody in to replace Rodgers at some stage. Given what we knew at the time, I think it was the right time for him to go after a disappointing display in the derby and being 10th in the league.

I'm happy he's doing well now and he's won 2 league titles since leaving us. But do I think he'd be doing a better job than Klopp and would he have won trophies by now? I don't think so, I'm unbelievably happy that he left when he did because Klopp is the perfect manager for us right now and I can't wait to watch our next game after every game ends.

gstack166

citytillidie wrote: »

Looking back on it now, he got lucky in one season with so many rival teams making changes, and having the best strike partnership in the league carrying him in so many games. When the dust settled he did not improve the team and really should have been sacked after losing 6-1 to Stoke City never mind getting a summer transfer window and 3 extra months in charge.

Same can be said for Jurgen to a degree no? He got lucky Chelsea regressed so much last year & still only finished above them by 3 points was it? To clinch champions League & Liverpool bar drawing City in last seasons Champions League has a nice easy path to the finals too Porto & Roma?

Lady Luck has been good to Klopp also.

I like Klopp, like his football but there’s a serious over rating of him in England with having lost 3 finals at Liverpool.

I know Rodgers was there 4 years or so like Klopp but who before them have gone more than 4 years without winning a trophy at Liverpool? Going back a long time to find him I’d imagine.

citytillidie

gstack166 wrote: »

Same can be said for Jurgen to a degree no? He got lucky Chelsea regressed so much last year & still only finished above them by 3 points was it? To clinch champions League & Liverpool bar drawing City in last seasons Champions League has a nice easy path to the finals too Porto & Roma?

Lady Luck has been good to Klopp also.

I like Klopp, like his football but there’s a serious over rating of him in England with having lost 3 finals at Liverpool.

I know Rodgers was there 4 years or so like Klopp but who before them have gone more than 4 years without winning a trophy at Liverpool? Going back a long time to find him I’d imagine.

Liverpool may have finished higher in the league had they not been resting players in the league games for the Champions League games. League form was indifferent from reaching the Quarter Finals of the Champions League but then you would expect that from a small squad that Liverpool had.

Liverpool reached 3 finals under Klopp and in each final there were the underdogs come back to me and say it again if Liverpool reached 3 finals and were the favourites to win each of them.

Klopp has had 2 full seasons at Liverpool in both finishing 4th.

One season he did not have European football

2nd season 1st full season for Klopp in European football with Liverpool he reached the Champions League Final.

Currently in his 3rd full season. Still in the Champions League and with a chance of winning the Premier League with 12 games to go.

Utopia Parkway

Having avoided this thread for a couple days I come back to read Klopp might get the sack soon and all Liverpool's players might leave.

Seems reasonable.

gstack166

citytillidie wrote: »

Liverpool may have finished higher in the league had they not been resting players in the league games for the Champions League games. League form was indifferent from reaching the Quarter Finals of the Champions League but then you would expect that from a small squad that Liverpool had.

Liverpool reached 3 finals under Klopp and in each final there were the underdogs come back to me and say it again if Liverpool reached 3 finals and were the favourites to win each of them

Could of been against Sevilla I’d say. Not certain though, I’d imagine it was similar to the champions league final which was priced at PP Madrid 10/11 & Liverpool 11/10 so they weren’t massive underdogs, only slightly really but take your point

citytillidie

gstack166 wrote: »

Could of been against Sevilla I’d say. Not certain though, I’d imagine it was similar to the champions league final which was priced at PP Madrid 10/11 & Liverpool 11/10 so they weren’t massive underdogs, only slightly really but take your point

Sevilla side who had won the 3 previous Europa League in my eyes would have been favourites to win, same as Real who had won the 3 previous Champions Leagues

martyos121

One thing that stands out from our last two visits to Old Trafford is Pogba going AWOL when United are defending set pieces. I wonder if Ole has fixed this massive hole in his game in the last couple of months, that'll be an interesting one to watch out for.

Still think it ends 0-0, and I fully expect that result to be celebrated by the home side should it happen.

Thread is already messy, might as well throw my passive aggressive two cents in as well.

martyos121

martyos121 wrote: »

One thing that stands out from our last two visits to Old Trafford is Pogba going AWOL when United are defending set pieces. I wonder if Ole has fixed this massive hole in his game in the last couple of months, that'll be an interesting one to watch out for.

Still think it ends 0-0, and I fully expect that result to be celebrated by the home side should it happen.

Thread is already messy, might as well throw my passive aggressive two cents in as well.

Pogba was effectively marked out of the PSG game. He had a good showing at Stamford Bridge since then, but I'd still worry about his potential to go AWOL. This will be the one thing which decides whether United get something from this game or not IMO.

gstack166

citytillidie wrote: »

Sevilla side who had won the 3 previous Europa League in my eyes would have been favourites to win, same as Real who had won the 3 previous Champions Leagues

You’re wrong according to a goal.com article with previewed the betting. They had Liverpool 4/6 to lift the trophy & Sevilla 6/5 based on Paddy Power odds

https://www.goal.com/en/news/2994/betting/2016/05/18/23644762/liverpool-v-sevilla-betting-entertaining-europa-league-final

Skylinehead

ebbsy wrote: »

Liverpool will envelop United in a cocoon of horror.

Deleted User wrote: »

That's...beautiful Ebbsy.

I'm personally hoping that we seduce Liverpool into a quagmire of discomfiture.

These are class. The rest of yis are talking shite.

citytillidie

gstack166 wrote: »

You’re wrong according to a goal.com article with previewed the betting. They had Liverpool 4/6 to lift the trophy & Sevilla 6/5 based on Paddy Power odds

https://www.goal.com/en/news/2994/betting/2016/05/18/23644762/liverpool-v-sevilla-betting-entertaining-europa-league-final

And if you look at Spanish firms they may have had Sevilla as favourites.

DARK-KNIGHT

Moyes got less than a year

Van gaal got a full 2 years
Jose got 2 years 7 months

United change managers every year though 🤣

Absolute ****e talk from some in here

5starpool

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Moyes got less than a year

Van gaal got a full 2 years
Jose got 2 years 7 months

United change managers every year though 🤣

Absolute ****e talk from some in here

That's your go to thing to point out the ****e being talked in this thread?

OK.

ebbsy

Deleted User wrote: »

That's...beautiful Ebbsy.

I'm personally hoping that we seduce Liverpool into a quagmire of discomfiture.

:D:D:D:D:D

charolais0153

jayo26 wrote: »

Your dead right as I said at start of season klopps job is safe as houses because Liverpool have different standards to the rest of top clubs.

Pool just want to be up there in the reckoning at the end of the season because of where they come from they won't say a manager needs to win the league or a cup to progress this club.

I think it's just a fear of dropping back to where they were before klopp took over and as we see a few posts up any argument against nor winning the league is based on reminding people oh we were a Europa league club without klopp.

So yeah klopp is safe enough just keep them up there doesn't even need to win a cup because they just get in the way.

Cups are fairly worthless dont ya think, doesnt even stop managers being sacked

Morzadec

Huge game and a really tough one to predict.

Taking the season as a whole Liverpool have been far superior and look better on paper.

That said, Solkjaer's record and United's form is very good. Liverpool have not been at their best lately - not as bad as some are making out but not at their free-flowing best.

Pogba (and Fabinho's ability to handle him) may well be key - he's finally looking to be the player United paid for.

It will be fascinating to see a United vs Liverpool game where both teams will presumably be attacking, it's been a while.

I would predict a draw.

yourdeadwright

charolais0153 wrote: »

Cups are fairly worthless dont ya think, doesnt even stop managers being sacked

Lets not beat around the bush for top clubs its all about the League and the champions league , They are where the money is and are the bar for success ,

Fa Cup, Carling Cup and Europa are pretty worthless in this day and age ,

yourdeadwright

Morzadec wrote: »

Huge game and a really tough one to predict.

Taking the season as a whole Liverpool have been far superior and look better on paper.

That said, Solkjaer's record and United's form is very good. Liverpool have not been at their best lately - not as bad as some are making out but not at their free-flowing best.

Pogba (and Fabinho's ability to handle him) may well be key - he's finally looking to be the player United paid for.

It will be fascinating to see a United vs Liverpool game where both teams will presumably be attacking, it's been a while.

I would predict a draw.

Personally I think if anyone has the job to pick up Pogba it will be Gini ,

Rayne Wooney

gstack166 wrote: »

Same can be said for Jurgen to a degree no? He got lucky Chelsea regressed so much last year & still only finished above them by 3 points was it? To clinch champions League & Liverpool bar drawing City in last seasons Champions League has a nice easy path to the finals too Porto & Roma?

Lady Luck has been good to Klopp also.

I like Klopp, like his football but there’s a serious over rating of him in England with having lost 3 finals at Liverpool.

I know Rodgers was there 4 years or so like Klopp but who before them have gone more than 4 years without winning a trophy at Liverpool? Going back a long time to find him I’d imagine.

Rodgers was the first Liverpool manager since the 1950s to go over 3 seasons without a trophy

Klopp could surpass him by May.

Morzadec

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Personally I think if anyone has the job to pick up Pogba it will be Gini ,

I doubt he'll be man-marked by any one player, but I would see it mostly being a case of Pogba vs Fabinho because:

1: Pogba has been playing as an advanced midfielder of late and Fab is the main DM

2: Physically Fabinho would be best placed to deal with Pogba's physical power and strength

yourdeadwright

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Rodgers was the first Liverpool manager since the 1950s to go over 3 seasons without a trophy

Klopp could surpass him by May.

Possibly but he took us from a joke of a team to one that is feared, he also has us competing for the big Trophies,

If he can get to a Champions league final and have us battling for the title with our current squad which he is improving season on season than long may it continue,

Look at United 4 mangers have come in since Fergie and you haven't even challenged for the two big trophies,
You haven't even been in contention to win the Champions league or Premiere league not even close

yourdeadwright

Morzadec wrote: »

I doubt he'll be man-marked by any one player, but I would see it mostly being a case of Pogba vs Fabinho because:

1: Pogba has been playing as an advanced midfielder of late and Fab is the main DM

2: Physically Fabinho would be best placed to deal with Pogba's physical power and strength

1: Above is possible but Liverpool have also played a lot with 2 DM's and Salah moving CF with Bobby in behind , They may use this on Sunday ,

2: I think Gini is better suited quicker around the pitch and stronger that Fabhino ( if you watch Liverpool play he is way stronger than Fab ) , I personally think he is more disciplined than Fab ,

citytillidie

Want to know how Klopp can surpass him when this will be the end of his 3rd full season, so that will mean he equals him

ShooterSF

martyos121 wrote: »

One thing that stands out from our last two visits to Old Trafford is Pogba going AWOL when United are defending set pieces. I wonder if Ole has fixed this massive hole in his game in the last couple of months, that'll be an interesting one to watch out for.

Still think it ends 0-0, and I fully expect that result to be celebrated by the home side should it happen.

Thread is already messy, might as well throw my passive aggressive two cents in as well.

How?

Like sure big teams celebrate draws at home but always after a comeback. United against Burnley recently, Chelsea against United earlier in the season. And of course the famous Liverpool West Brom game. But when has a top 6 team celebrated a 0-0 at home ever?????

Liam McPoyle

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Lets not beat around the bush for top clubs its all about the League and the champions league , They are where the money is and are the bar for success ,

Fa Cup, Carling Cup and Europa are pretty worthless in this day and age ,

Versus the league or the the champions league, ultimately yes.

However United have been in a massive transitional period since (before even) the GOAT left so to see the team pick up all 3 of the lesser trophies while simultaneously being "The worst United team in a generation" is better than most other teams have managed.

We havnt been at the races in terms of the big two trophies but have won all of the ones we were involved in over the last 5 year's.

Winning everything that we could win at the level were were/are currently at is decent going, regardless of how many of our enemies poo poo the achievements.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

The Man U fans in here saying that Klopp should get sacked if we don't win the league this year must be cut from the same cloth as the united fans that were calling for Ferguson to be sacked after his first three years at the club.

Lads ye are fooling no one. Everyone but the blind can see what a steady upward trajectory Klopp has had on Liverpool. Rival fans would only love Klopp to leave and to see Liverpool only competing again to get into the top 4 and maybe one of the Mickey mouse trophies. We are challenging for the title this year against probably the greatest premier league side of all time and last year got to the final of the champions league.

It will be along time before Man U get to within an asses roar of this City team again. They are different gravy to whatever united came up against before make no mistake.

Pool have only lost one league game so far all season, still in the champions league but they should sack Klopp at the end if they win nothing. Instead of seeing if maybe he can improve on a possible 2nd place finish in the league the following year. Ya because fúck logic.

How long was it before Ferguson won the title at united? You know the lad ye all worship. 6 years wasn't it?

No one gives a crap by the way anymore about the Mickey mouse trophies. The game has changed. It's the PL and CL or nothing.

Sunday will probably be a score draw with united fans over the moon that they managed to dent Liverpool's title hopes in their seasons cup final.

dfx-

MD1990 wrote: »

I would like to meet the people putting on bets for Everton, Watford and Bournemouth to win the league at this point.

Liam McPoyle

dfx- wrote: »

I would like to meet the people putting on bets for Everton, Watford and Bournemouth to win the league at this point.

Odds are still less than what some people got on Leicester at the beginning of that season. Just shows how badly burned the bookies were. Always good to see them get a kick in the spuds.

yourdeadwright

Liam McPoyle wrote: »

Versus the league or the the champions league, ultimately yes.

However United have been in a massive transitional period since (before even) the GOAT left so to see the team pick up all 3 of the lesser trophies while simultaneously being "The worst United team in a generation" is better than most other teams have managed.

We havnt been at the races in terms of the big two trophies but have won all of the ones we were involved in over the last 5 year's.

Winning everything that we could win at the level were were/are currently at is decent going, regardless of how many of our enemies poo poo the achievements.

FA Cup and League Cup are worthless

But teams do aim to wins these once they hit quarter final stage but aren't to bother if they go out ,


Europa league is basically as winning the championship in Europe,
How can you celebrate it when the top teams are not even in it,
Only celebration of wining it for United was really cause they didn't finish in the top 4 that year, but to celebrate the actually trophy is sad,