Clocked car

Bettyboop

have car 4 days and just found out it has 3 different odometer readings
1. When for sale on Donedeal 220kms
2. on car itself 179kms
3. from garage who has serviced it from 330kms.
Have informed guards but say its a civil matter engine is f@@ked too
wasnt given NCT cert as dealer/seller said it was lost but I checked on NCT site
and it is NCTed till November no odometer reading until i receive duplicate cert
Motorcheck had no mileage records either.
Can any advise me as to my next course of action?? Yeh I was stupid but
whats done is done . What will I say to the dealer/seller when I phone him??
as he has 5 cars for sale on Donedeal from outside his house I class him as a dealer.
Any help appreciated, please dont remind me of how stupid I was as I feel stupid enough

punisher5112

Bettyboop wrote: »

have car 4 days and just found out it has 3 different odometer readings
1. When for sale on Donedeal 220kms
2. on car itself 179kms
3. from garage who has serviced it from 330kms.
Have informed guards but say its a civil matter engine is f@@ked too
wasnt given NCT cert as dealer/seller said it was lost but I checked on NCT site
and it is NCTed till November no odometer reading until i receive duplicate cert
Motorcheck had no mileage records either.
Can any advise me as to my next course of action?? Yeh I was stupid but
whats done is done . What will I say to the dealer/seller when I phone him??
as he has 5 cars for sale on Donedeal from outside his house I class him as a dealer.
Any help appreciated, please dont remind me of how stupid I was as I feel stupid enough

Call him or go over.

If he doesn't sort, then you need to get a solicitor or bring a case against him.

Bettyboop

punisher5112 wrote: »

Call him or go over.

If he doesn't sort, then you need to get a solicitor or bring a case against him.

Just did and denies it was clocked and wont talk to me anymore and put phone
down cause of my attitude

punisher5112

Bettyboop wrote: »

Just did and denies it was clocked and wont talk to me anymore and put phone
down cause of my attitude

Well then you need to go legal.

Southdubin6

Legal route doesn't exist really. AGS are right in saying civil matter. Was it green lighted on Done deal?

enricoh

Bettyboop wrote: »

Just did and denies it was clocked and wont talk to me anymore and put phone
down cause of my attitude

Call to house- forget ringing , if no joy threaten revenue.

Bettyboop

Thank you all happy to report its all sorted now thank you all for the advice
much appreciated

punisher5112

Bettyboop wrote: »

Thank you all happy to report its all sorted now thank you all for the advice
much appreciated

What was the outcome?

Bettyboop

punisher5112 wrote: »

What was the outcome?

Refund

colm_mcm

Have you gotten the refund or just agreement to refund?

Bettyboop

I posted about a car I purchased been clocked and timing chain gone the next day after purchase. I got post closed as I thought my money was been refunded.
How wrong was I ?? Week 2 and despite promises of replacing the car which I was to receive today once again no further along with seeing money or any car.
All I have is a phone number he brought car to me in which I paid him for doing.All I know he is still donedealing in Dublin15 looking at the website. Oh I received log book he purposely make a joke of my name on it, not in my proper name at all. Least of my worries. I aint a young woman anymore I have grandchildren and retired due to illness. I cant beleive there are car scammers out there who would do such a deplorable act . He is such a smart ass that I wont ring or text him anymore. How do they sleep at night? Do they have no conscience at all? Would he like this to happen to his mother? I will do my upmost to get my money back. Maybe if he was dealing with a man things might be different. Anyway no car no money . Never again will I buy like that but I was sweet talked into it and was blind to see what was happening.

Lord Nikon

PM me his name, as I had a similar problem years back with a guy from Blanchardstown/Castle knock area.

Bettyboop

Lord Nikon wrote: »

PM me his name, as I had a similar problem years back with a guy from Blanchardstown/Castle knock area.

dont have his full name and address wish I did

Del2005

Bettyboop wrote: »

I posted about a car I purchased been clocked and timing chain gone the next day after purchase. I got post closed as I thought my money was been refunded.
How wrong was I ?? Week 2 and despite promises of replacing the car which I was to receive today once again no further along with seeing money or any car.
All I have is a phone number he brought car to me in which I paid him for doing.All I know he is still donedealing in Dublin15 looking at the website. Oh I received log book he purposely make a joke of my name on it, not in my proper name at all. Least of my worries. I aint a young woman anymore I have grandchildren and retired due to illness. I cant beleive there are car scammers out there who would do such a deplorable act . He is such a smart ass that I wont ring or text him anymore. How do they sleep at night? Do they have no conscience at all? Would he like this to happen to his mother? I will do my upmost to get my money back. Maybe if he was dealing with a man things might be different. Anyway no car no money . Never again will I buy like that but I was sweet talked into it and was blind to see what was happening.

How are you going to get your money back if you don't have a name or address?

Bettyboop wrote: »

dont have his full name and address wish I did

For Forks Sake

What checks did you have carried out on the car / it's history before you handed over cash?

Bettyboop

For Forks Sake wrote: »

What checks did you have carried out on the car / it's history before you handed over cash?

motorcheck.ie the fact hes been selling cars since 2010, NCT check

Stacksofwacks

Caveat emptor is a Latin term that means "let the buyer beware." Similar to the phrase "sold as is," this term means that the buyer assumes the risk that a product may fail to meet expectations or have defects.

Bettyboop

Del2005 wrote: »

How are you going to get your money back if you don't have a name or address?

I am looking into that he bought the car from a Dealership according to mechanic who serviced the car from brand new until it died and was used as a trade in

Bettyboop

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Caveat emptor is a Latin term that means "let the buyer beware." Similar to the phrase "sold as is," this term means that the buyer assumes the risk that a product may fail to meet expectations or have defects.

Does that include a clocked car ? Not fit for purpose and dangerous

Samuri Suicide

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Caveat emptor is a Latin term that means "let the buyer beware." Similar to the phrase "sold as is," this term means that the buyer assumes the risk that a product may fail to meet expectations or have defects.

Harsh. She's looking for help/advice albeit in the wrong forum.

endacl

Bettyboop wrote: »

Does that include a clocked car ? Not fit for purpose and dangerous

If I promised you a car and you accepted and paid for a tricycle it would apply. Up to you to check it’s not a tricycle before you drive away.

Stacksofwacks

Bettyboop wrote: »

Does that include a clocked car ? Not fit for purpose and dangerous

I'm afraid so. Private sale, no contracts etc. All you can do is let others know about this shady dealer or even threaten him that you will do so unless...

corner of hells

endacl wrote: »

If I promised you a car and you accepted and paid for a tricycle it would apply. Up to you to check it’s not a tricycle before you drive away.

Interested , how many wheels has the tricycle got ?

mickdw

Keep an eye on done deal, if you recognise a add that might be from him - (you would be surprised how it can sometimes to easy to pick out ads due to photo angles or text or location),
you could get a couple of rather large gentlemen to go view the car and ask him nicely for with your money back.

Bettyboop

mickdw wrote: »

Keep an eye on done deal, if you recognise a add that might be from him - (you would be surprised how it can sometimes to easy to pick out ads due to photo angles or text or location),
you could get a couple of rather large gentlemen to go view the car and ask him nicely for with your money back.

He has 4 ads selling cars as we speak. My son who is abroad mentioned his
friends paying him a visit but when you dont know who this guy could be associated with I would be fearful for them

Bettyboop

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Caveat emptor is a Latin term that means "let the buyer beware." Similar to the phrase "sold as is," this term means that the buyer assumes the risk that a product may fail to meet expectations or have defects.

most helpful

tuxy

Reporting him to revenue is about all you can do legally. I know loads of stupid illegal thing you could do though!
I know it doesn't help you get your money back.

Stacksofwacks

Bettyboop wrote: »

most helpful

I only quoted what a Judge would say about this in court but it looks like you have help on the case as it is, hopefully it turns out ok for you

Oops!

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Caveat emptor is a Latin term that means "let the buyer beware." Similar to the phrase "sold as is," this term means that the buyer assumes the risk that a product may fail to meet expectations or have defects.

Unfortunately OP this is the reality of your situation going by what you have posted if indeed it was a private sale. By the sounds of it the seller is not interested anymore.... Anybody threatening him will do nothing...

I'm in the motor trade and see this situation every week... Lesson learned and move on from the situation for your own sake.... It will only stress you out even more.

Stacksofwacks

Can I ask OP what make of car is it, how old, and how much did you pay for it? If it was an old car for couple grand then you are taking a chance anyway. If its a a fairly new car then you really should be going through a registered dealer with warranty etc

tuxy

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109417173

It would seem the OP knew of the risk involved and the need to have the car looked at by a mechanic.
The seller must be a real charmer when he wants to be to get you to go against your better judgement and of the people on here who you are once again asking for help.

Oops!

I'm starting to see a bit of a pattern here!

Del2005

Oops! wrote: »

Unfortunately OP this is the reality of your situation going by what you have posted if indeed it was a private sale. By the sounds of it the seller is not interested anymore.... Anybody threatening him will do nothing...

I'm in the motor trade and see this situation every week... Lesson learned and move on from the situation for your own sake.... It will only stress you out even more.

According to the OP he's got 4 cars for sale now. While he might not have a showroom he's definitely in the trade, so it's not a private sale. But he's most likely the type who doesn't care so there's still no come back for the OP.

Oops!

There's plenty of people selling 3 or 4 cars on donedeal and believe me they are not all in the trade!

They are chancers that give the genuine sellers and trades people a bad name..... But they will always be around, that's where people like the OP get it into their head that doing things on the cheap is the best way..... Everybody should befriend a good mechanic!

Oops!

I sell the odd car myself privately, but when i do the person knows what the are buying and are under no illusions or doubts..... And never had i anybody back complaining... It's just not worth the hassle from both sides....

It's scut mungers like this fella pawning off sh**e cars to the general public that f**ks it up for the genuine sellers.

Del2005

Oops! wrote: »

There's plenty of people selling 3 or 4 cars on donedeal and believe me they are not all in the trade!

They are selling multiple cars regularly so they are in the trade it's just that nobody in the trade wants to admit it.

joeguevara

Bettyboop wrote: »

He has 4 ads selling cars as we speak. My son who is abroad mentioned his
friends paying him a visit but when you dont know who this guy could be associated with I would be fearful for them

This is the worst thing that your son could do. It is admirable he wants to help his mother but unless his friends have experience in that sort of thing they will more than likely realize that they have bitten off more than they can chew.

I think go down the legal route would be your best bet. If there are numerous cars for sale on the website you should be able to prove it’s not a private sale but a business. This means you have way more protections and avenues for compensation. If he has a lot or a yard then simply parking there and saying your story to everyone who goes in might convince him to pay back to get you off his back. But don’t let your sons friends try and act heavy with him. Too many stories of car dealers with links to gangs who don’t care what they do.

Zubeneschamali

corner of hells wrote: »

Interested , how many wheels has the tricycle got ?

Swap for 3 legged hamster and empty soup tin?

kippy

No doubt the OP could have done more research before buying the car but this guy and others like him need to be regulated.
What exactly defines whether he is 'in the trade' or not? To me someone who is buying and selling cars without registering them in their own name is 'in the trade' and they need to be regulated and provide the same guarentees as those who are 'in the trade'. SIMI whose members are getting screwed by these types of traders or the Consumer Protection Agency (or whatever they are called now) need to do more to take these changers out of the loop.
There are not 'private' sales so should have more protection for the consumer.
Selling a clocked car is dangerous no matter the status of the sale and the OP should have some protection. Engaging the CPA and or solicitor may be required.

Henry Ford III

Oops! wrote:

There's plenty of people selling 3 or 4 cars on donedeal and believe me they are not all in the trade!

They are still trading imho.

joeguevara

Henry Ford III wrote: »

They are still trading imho.

There is no threshold of when they become a car dealer. It is to do with objective. If they buy and sell cars with a purpose of making a profit then that moves them from private seller to car dealer. However you would need to prove that in a court of law. Now if the car was bought forb30k it would probably be worth your while. If it is only a few thousand then the legal fees would outweigh anyvwin.

Avatar MIA

Henry Ford III wrote: »

They are still trading imho.

It's whether Revenue consider them trading is what matters. It's possible/probable this person is.

Rather than employing heavies, this is the "conversation" I'd have with the seller.

Question for OP.

How do you know now the car was clocked, but not before purchase?

Bettyboop

joeguevara wrote: »

There is no threshold of when they become a car dealer. It is to do with objective. If they buy and sell cars with a purpose of making a profit then that moves them from private seller to car dealer. However you would need to prove that in a court of law. Now if the car was bought forb30k it would probably be worth your while. If it is only a few thousand then the legal fees would outweigh anyvwin.

Going down the legal route not prepared just to let it go and let this
Scammer away with it. No matter what the outcome I am prepared for the long haul. Thank you all for the comments:)

joeguevara

Bettyboop wrote: »

Going down the legal route not prepared just to let it go and let this
Scammer away with it. No matter what the outcome I am prepared for the long haul. Thank you all for the comments:)

Just so you know the legal route could take years. Could cost upwards of 30 years. No guarantee you will win so may have to pay their costs. For what? How much are you out? Don’t let anger leads decision that could potentially bankrupt you.

Bigus

This government crowd take clocking seriously and will follow as it's now a criminal offence unlike up to relevantly recently .

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/cars/car-clocking/

Fr_Dougal

Take a screenshot of every car he has up for sale. It will strengthen your case that he’s a dealer. Dealers have a responsibility to ensure that cars are legitimate.

colm_mcm

Lads even if he’s the biggest scum bag going and you have all the records in the world and even if he’s prosecuted for something there isn’t a chance in hell of the OP getting a penny out of him.

Oops!

Correct...

Samuel T. Cogley

I thought they made clocking a criminal offence - it was certainly in Bill form in 2013.

Editr: Missed Biggus' post. Insist the Gardaí take it seriously.

colm_mcm

Road traffic act 2014

PART 5

Miscellaneous

Interference with odometer of mechanically propelled vehicle

14. (1) A person shall not interfere or attempt to interfere with the odometer of a mechanically propelled vehicle.

(2) A person who contravenes, or who procures another person to contravene, subsection (1) commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a class C fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months, or to both.

(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that a person is committing or has committed an offence under this section he or she may arrest the person without warrant.

(4) Where a person is charged with an offence under this section it shall be a defence to show that at the time of the alleged offence the person was acting in good faith in order to test, repair or replace the odometer of the mechanically propelled vehicle.

(5) In this section “odometer”, in relation to a mechanically propelled vehicle, means the device that measures and records the distance travelled by the vehicle but does not include an auxiliary device capable of being reset to measure and record individual journeys

Consumer protection act 2007

47.— A trader who engages in any misleading commercial practice described in section 43 (1) or (2) commits an offence and is liable on conviction on indictment or on summary conviction, as the case may be, to the fines and penalties provided in Chapter 4 of Part 5 .

Proving the seller knew about the clocking is the key thing.

Bigus

colm_mcm wrote: »

Lads even if he’s the biggest scum bag going and you have all the records in the world and even if he’s prosecuted for something there isn’t a chance in hell of the OP getting a penny out of him.

Not necessarily, there's at least one reported irish case where the victim got a full refund of about 15 k , the consumer affairs people leaned on the trader to give the refund to the customer in order to lessen potential prosecution consequences, i.e. Doing time was taken off the table.

And here's another one
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/motor-dealer-fined-500-for-car-clocking-1.3265918