Italy vs Ireland match thread, 24-2-2019.

ClanofLams

TimHorton wrote: »

So you think Carty is a better player than Madigan ?

He wasn’t good enough for Connacht a couple of seasons ago according to you. Yeah he’s better than Madigan right now without doubt. Madigan had disaster in France is on the verge of losing his spot at Bristol.

TimHorton

Clegg wrote: »

At this stage he probably is.

Probaby Not.

ClanofLams

What did Horgan and Jennings say about Conor O Shea after the game? Read tweets it was harsh

awec

ClanofLams wrote: »

What did Horgan and Jennings say about Conor O Shea after the game? Read tweets it was harsh

Basically questioned the notion that he was doing a good job with Italy, given he hasn't won a Six Nations match with them.

Akrasia

ClanofLams wrote: »

What did Horgan and Jennings say about Conor O Shea after the game? Read tweets it was harsh

Just a load of sh1te about how he isn't making progress because Italy still aren't regularly beating the Teams ranked in the top 5 Teams in the world

Dubinusa

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Can't say I understand this logic. If he were head of rugby development then maybe but the head coach of a national team should not be judged on the results of teams he doesn't coach. Benetton are going well because they are very well coached, by Kieran Crowley. They are very tough and well organised, Italy are neither.

He has input in the overall game in Italy. Grassroots and up.
I think the performance today and the previous against Wales were far better than expected.
It's noticeable that Italy appear fitter also.
C.O.S would make a good coach for Ireland down the road imo.

TimHorton

awec wrote: »

Basically questioned the notion that he was doing a good job with Italy, given he hasn't won a Six Nations match with them.

Horgan/Jennings are a pair of *****.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

Basically questioned the notion that he was doing a good job with Italy, given he hasn't won a Six Nations match with them.

Seems a pretty inescapable point at this stage unfortunately.

ClanofLams

Akrasia wrote: »

Just a load of sh1te about how he isn't making progress because Italy still aren't regularly beating the Teams ranked in the top 5 Teams in the world

Nonsense. Easy for the two boys sitting in Dublin who have never attempted a challenge close to what COS is doing.

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

He has input in the overall game in Italy. Grassroots and up.
I think the performance today and the previous against Wales were far better than expected.
It's noticeable that Italy appear fitter also.
C.O.S would make a good coach for Ireland down the road imo.

He doesnt have a role in the grassroots. He isnt involved in the club game over there or development sides be they age grade or otherwise.
Not sure he would make a good coach for Ireland yet.

molloyjh

Akrasia wrote: »

Just a load of sh1te about how he isn't making progress because Italy still aren't regularly beating the Teams ranked in the top 5 Teams in the world

That’s not what they were saying at all. They made no mention of regularly beating anyone. Joe Molloy made the point that it’s an improved Italian team, and they simply countered to say that it isn’t. That they haven’t really improved at all and from that perspective COS hasn’t done a great job. I’m not sure how that’s abything other than an accurate reflection of what his tenure has been like. Most of the good he’ll have done won’t be seen for a few years.

marieholmfan

Great result by Ireland. We had to dig deep and we did. The road to the championship has not been closed.

Henry Ford III

Pretty ordinary performance I'd say. A number of the big names are simply not playing well.

Stone Gossard

marieholmfan wrote: »

Great result by Ireland. We had to dig deep and we did. The road to the championship has not been closed.

True....It was closed in the last round

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Thought Cronin had a very bad game despite one or two of those galloping runs. Couldn't hit himself with the ball at the lineout.

The terrible timing in the lifting/jumping completely rocked his confidence.
Especially the one on the Italian 5 metre line. They completely fawked the lift.


Also, I ask again: Has the law changed that there need be no line gap anymore??

lbc2019

ClanofLams wrote: »

Nonsense. Easy for the two boys sitting in Dublin who have never attempted a challenge close to what COS is doing.

100

They talked out of both sides of their mouths re Joe and Conor

Dubinusa

Dubinusa wrote: »

Some lads did ok! Kilcoyne was fine.

Fine?? He played better than I have seen in a long time

Dubinusa

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fine?? He played better than I have seen in a long time

He was good! He has improved and deserved his shot!

DellyBelly

What did we learn from today. For me the following

Murray's looking very poor and I'm worried he's not going to find it for the world cup

Sexton is almost done. We may get a world cup out of him but that's a big maybe.

Cronin is not good enough for international rugby.

Sean O'Brien unfortunately is finished at this level

Clegg

DellyBelly wrote: »

What did we learn from today. For me the following

Murray's looking very poor and I'm worried he's not going to find it for the world cup

Sexton is almost done. We may get a world cup out of him but that's a big maybe.

Cronin is not good enough for international rugby.

Sean O'Brien unfortunately is finished at this level

Almost done in what respect?

Brewster

Cronin didn’t have his best day, it appeared to me that two balls were overthrown. He just doesn’t have the same impact in the tight as the big man. We need to keep him wrapped in cotton wool for the rest of the year.

Christy42

lbc2019 wrote: »

ClanofLams wrote: »

Nonsense. Easy for the two boys sitting in Dublin who have never attempted a challenge close to what COS is doing.

100

They talked out of both sides of their mouths re Joe and Conor

Why? They are some way off the pace.l of other teams. They are on a record streak of losses.

Today was a day everything went right for Italy and they still couldn't manage a bonus point loss. So many very basic errors every single game. Sure other teams have bad games but for Italy that is every game.

He does seem to be involved in the grass roots and the club game which is improvement. That seems to be a different role and they should just stick him there as he seems to be doing good work there.

I think he has been hurt by an improved Scotland not giving away the odd win. The six nations teams as a whole have improved over the last few years.

Shefwedfan

It was mentioned before that COS is not really a coach, he is a Director of rugby and then he has a coaching team who do all the work on the pitch.

He has done great work with Italian rugby as a whole. The underage is competitive and the Italian teams are a lot better than before. Maybe his coaching team are just not good enough for International rugby. I think he took the coachs he worked with at Quins.

So maybe the answer is to keep COS on as the Director because that part if working, but sack the coaching team and put a new team together to work with COS?

phog

Pretty poor performance from Ireland, way too many errors to allow us get any sort of momentum going, again our halfbacks were well below par. I was in Rome in 2013 for the game we lost and I had a similar sinking feeling today while watching us play

People can argue about who we're missing and other players not holding their hands up but today was 3rd game of the 6Ns where we played below a standard that we've come to expect

Wales beating England gave us some hope but today's points difference as good as says that the 6Ns is over for us though I hope we regroup and kick the living daylights out of France and Wales.

penybont exile

The good - away win .... bonus point .....

The bad - poor performance .....

The concerning - senior players ..... Sexton, Murray, O'Brien, Best, Kearney ......look laboured ..... well below par

The worrying - Schmidt ..... seems stubborn ...... might come back to bite everyone if you're not carefull.

DellyBelly

Clegg wrote: »

Almost done in what respect?

I think he's best days are behind him. Still a very good no 10 but not the greatest as he once once in my opinion. Time catching up with him

troyzer

penybont exile wrote: »

The good - away win .... bonus point .....

The bad - poor performance .....

The concerning - senior players ..... Sexton, Murray, O'Brien, Best, Kearney ......look laboured ..... well below par

The worrying - Schmidt ..... seems stubborn ...... might come back to bite everyone if you're not carefull.

Best was so laboured today it's almost like he wasn't even playing. Totally anonymous.

troyzer

DellyBelly wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

Almost done in what respect?

I think he's best days are behind him. Still a very good no 10 but not the greatest as he once once in my opinion. Time catching up with him

He won world player of the year less than three months ago.

penybont exile

troyzer wrote: »

Best was so laboured today it's almost like he wasn't even playing. Totally anonymous.

I know who played ......

DellyBelly

troyzer wrote: »

He won world player of the year less than three months ago.

Yes I know. Just my opinion. I hope I'm wrong

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

He won world player of the year less than three months ago.

Seemingly 3 months is a long time in rugby. He has gone from beating NZ to just a decent old 10, over the hill but decent???

I wonder what has changed since the NZ game?

Sexton is standing waiting for a ball that at times feels like it will never arrive.

It would be interesting to see that game with Cooney and Sexton playing. Murray looked pedestrian a lot of the time and the whole team is suffering. By the time Sexton gets the ball the team is on top of him.

For France they will not be able to drop both Sexton and Murray so at the moment the one in the worst form is Murray. I think swap and see how it goes.

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

He won world player of the year less than three months ago.

Seemingly 3 months is a long time in rugby. He has gone from beating NZ to just a decent old 10, over the hill but decent???

I wonder what has changed since the NZ game?

Sexton is standing waiting for a ball that at times feels like it will never arrive.

It would be interesting to see that game with Cooney and Sexton playing. Murray looked pedestrian a lot of the time and the whole team is suffering. By the time Sexton gets the ball the team is on top of him.

For France they will not be able to drop both Sexton and Murray so at the moment the one in the worst form is Murray. I think swap and see how it goes.

I agree. Murray is the critical weakness in the whole attack and needs time at Munster to get his body right. There was a noticable uptick when Cooney came in for each of the last three games.

Faugheen

DellyBelly wrote: »

I think he's best days are behind him. Still a very good no 10 but not the greatest as he once once in my opinion. Time catching up with him

He was named World Rugby Player of the Year less than three months ago.

He’s undercooked and out of form, but let’s relax a little bit.

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

I agree. Murray is the critical weakness in the whole attack and needs time at Munster to get his body right. There was a noticable uptick when Cooney came in for each of the last three games.

No idea how marmion got on at weekend so he could be option as well. Not like him and Sexton didn't have a good day last outing...


Give it a bash, if it doesn't work and Sexton has a mare then look at Murray/Carberry but from my point of view the ball is far far too slow. Munster even seen this in Exeter game and Murray was pulled. It has not improved.

martingriff

TimHorton wrote: »

So you think Carty is a better player than Madigan ?

Yes I do and given Madigan plays outside Ireland he will not be picked

Burkie1203

penybont exile wrote: »

The good - away win .... bonus point .....

The bad - poor performance .....

The concerning - senior players ..... Sexton, Murray, O'Brien, Best, Kearney ......look laboured ..... well below par

The worrying - Schmidt ..... seems stubborn ...... might come back to bite everyone if you're not carefull.

The lack of leadership today was very unexpected when you consider who was on the pitch. Another negative

Water John

Lip reading, Some one was a f***ing moron any way according to Sexton as he walked off the pitch.
POM played well but either the Italian scrum half or fullback should have been MOTM.

Hands Like Flippers

joseywhales wrote: »

I don't understand, if it's a ruck then you can't pick the ball unless you step over it and you can't tackle the scrum half if he is in the motion of passing. I don't understand how it is possible to legally rip the ball from the scrum half.

Nah. If he picks it up he is fair game

MadYaker

Water John wrote: »

Lip reading, Some one was a f***ing moron any way according to Sexton as he walked off the pitch.
POM played well but either the Italian scrum half or fullback should have been MOTM.

Maybe the ref? The ref was a disgrace.

Shefwedfan

MadYaker wrote: »

Maybe the ref? The ref was a disgrace.

I don’t know if 100% true but It was on another forum the ref was in Super rugby last week and had a stinker, a NZ fan was laughing that his punishment was to ref a 6 nations match

Dubinusa

This highlights Toner and his impact.
Until someone else can get the l/o under control, Toner is undroppable imo.

joseywhales

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Nah. If he picks it up he is fair game

Doesn't the tackler have to come from behind the hindmost foot of the ruck? I have seen players penalised for "playing the nine", I assume that is because they were engaged in the ruck. So the Italian nine started behind the ruck and only move once the ball had left the ground? I'm asking because this area genuinely confuses me. I also remember a law where the ball isn't out when the nine has hands on the ball, he has some imaginary five yard area to exit. I have played nine and even I don't know, I just move it fast or take a step to create space depending on what is going on.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

Doesn't the tackler have to come from behind the hindmost foot of the ruck? I have seen players penalised for "playing the nine", I assume that is because they were engaged in the ruck. So the Italian nine started behind the ruck and only move once the ball had left the ground? I'm asking because this area genuinely confuses me. I also remember a law where the ball isn't out when the nine has hands on the ball, he has some imaginary five yard area to exit. I have played nine and even I don't know, I just move it fast or take a step to create space depending on what is going on.

Rewatch, there was feck all depth in the ruck. Barely a ruck.
Murray should have been more aware

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

Doesn't the tackler have to come from behind the hindmost foot of the ruck? I have seen players penalised for "playing the nine", I assume that is because they were engaged in the ruck. So the Italian nine started behind the ruck and only move once the ball had left the ground? I'm asking because this area genuinely confuses me. I also remember a law where the ball isn't out when the nine has hands on the ball, he has some imaginary five yard area to exit. I have played nine and even I don't know, I just move it fast or take a step to create space depending on what is going on.

Rewatch, there was feck all depth in the ruck. Barely a ruck.
Murray should have been more aware

It's all on Murray, completely fair steal.

People are just surprised it was a 9 melting the ruck but there was no ruck. He came straight through the gate and nobody was in the way.

Murray throwing his hands up is unforgivable. I'd have hooked him then and there.

Water John

Am I wrong in thinking most defence lines at the ruck are offside and thus closing the gap, which makes the line difficult to break? They are not behind the hindmost foot.

troyzer

Water John wrote: »

Am I wrong in thinking most defence lines at the ruck are offside and thus closing the gap, which makes the line difficult to break? They are not behind the hindmost foot.

Yeah. Offside lately is so badly enforced.

I think World Rugby need to start looking at ARs being given the right to blow up when they see offside. The ref simply has too much to keep their eye on at once. How can they realistically officiate a mess at the breakdown and also watch what's going on in the defensive line at the same time? They're bound to miss something.

Water John

It's the linesman's role IWT. The guy next to the ruck on each side stay clearly on side and the outside players flat or behind him. Sorry for the derail but feel it's stifling the game.

Brewster

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah. Offside lately is so badly enforced.

I think World Rugby need to start looking at ARs being given the right to blow up when they see offside. The ref simply has too much to keep their eye on at once. How can they realistically officiate a mess at the breakdown and also watch what's going on in the defensive line at the same time? They're bound to miss something.

The ARs do pick up on offsides, they are in a very good position to do so. Quite often you will hear the referee communicating with his assistant about an offside.

troyzer

Brewster wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah. Offside lately is so badly enforced.

I think World Rugby need to start looking at ARs being given the right to blow up when they see offside. The ref simply has too much to keep their eye on at once. How can they realistically officiate a mess at the breakdown and also watch what's going on in the defensive line at the same time? They're bound to miss something.

The ARs do pick up on offsides, they are in a very good position to do so. Quite often you will hear the referee communicating with his assistant about an offside.

Well then the ARs are blind.

In any given game there are dozens of instances of blatant offside that are never called. If it's in the interests of "the flow of the game" then it's bollocks. Defenses have enough advantages as it is without being able to tackle the carrier a split second after they get the ball by cheating.

joseywhales

troyzer wrote: »

It's all on Murray, completely fair steal.

People are just surprised it was a 9 melting the ruck but there was no ruck. He came straight through the gate and nobody was in the way.

Murray throwing his hands up is unforgivable. I'd have hooked him then and there.

There had to have been a ruck at least, ever since they changed the definition of a ruck due to the England Italy game, you don't even need an opposing player to ruck against for it to be a ruck.

I'll watch it again, I remember it being very sparse.