Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121081979#Comment_121081979

A major re shuffle of buses will take place when these FINALLY start to enter traffic, Clontarf are set to receive a lone PA class bus for type training, so some interesting inter garage transfers ahead.. Interesting is that there are EW class buses in storage with mirrors and with camera mirrors so I don't know what the deal is there...

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121082576#Comment_121082576

I was talking to a lad in maintenance today in Summerhill, he said the PA'S won't be going to Clontarf as he said they won't make the turn after the wash, he said the SG's barely make it. But like everything in DB take it with a pinch of salt till it happens.

A1ACo

Below is a recent video of a test run of the new (hybrid – batteries/part overhead wires) trolleybus system in Prague (both videos below show that the new trolleybuses use only standard, single-decker length and not longer articulated types).

Trolejová zkouška na nové trolejbusové trati Letňany – Čakovice - YouTube

This first short video shows the new system’s relatively thin wires, including at some large junctions, and a large, green area roundabout that would not be unfamiliar in Ireland, and including dual-carriage way and QBC type lane route.

Comeback of trolleybuses to Prague. Through which places they will go? - YouTube

This second video (use subtitles) from a guy in Prague not a particular fan of anything other than overground trains as he makes clear(!) shows at 3:30 some comparison of noise (and vibration) of a Trolleybus vs. Diesel bus, at 2:36 note a narrowish road between low to tallish buildings with wires stated and shown to be partly hung off both existing, and new public light poles, and also stated that - at some junctions the batteries used to avoid a lot of wires.

p_haugh

Leo Varadkar was up in Ballymena yesterday for a photo op with the new EWs being made up there.

https://twitter.com/Wright_bus/status/1701293808271429765?t=PytRwy6WOKbiGyLvKJJTLA&s=19

Interesting to see that the Bus Eireann one in the photo has a fleet code of EWD. Assume it's going to be the same setup as with the PA/Ds - EW for Dublin bus, EWD for Bus Eireann.

Which makes it even more interesting is that the EA single deckers being used by Bus Eireann dont seem to have gotten this treatment!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121088548#Comment_121088548

What's any of this got to do with the thread subject?

Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100221#Comment_121100221

D is for double decker I think

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106301#Comment_121106301

Yeah I knew the logic, just surprised they didn't do EA/EAS (or similar) for the single deckers

mikeybhoy

Their Streetlites didn't get it either their WD and WL

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136654#Comment_121136654

They have been in service for some years already. The post you're replying to was made in 2019.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137290#Comment_121137290

Bot account which got nuked.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865729#Comment_120865729

The infrastructure argument doesnt even come into it IMO for PSVs. There is no way a PSV can use a public charger during the working day and lose 1-2 hours of productivity. Look at the reviews that Bjorn did, buses and trucks that are EV take 2 hours on a 800V charger due to the sheer size of the batteries.

The answer is, the same as it is currently for LPG/CNG buses and even diesel buses a lot of times. Refuel only at the depot. Have enough range for the days operation with some buffer spare so you're not hypermiling the last few stops on a cold winter day. Charge at night where there are excess renewables anyway.

Lets say you have a 300kwh battery in a bus. If you can get a 40-50kW charger at the depot it will charge overnight in 6-7 hours. You could even have a 30kW and charge in 9-10 hours overnight. They usually only charge on DC so you'd have the initial expense but commercial electricity is often very cheap or negative at night.

Imagine a city bus depot with 10 buses all charging overnight and the amount of carcinogens and fossil fuels that saves from being emitted in the local area.

Trouwe Ier

Is there any update on when the EWs may finally enter service on the streets of Dublin ?

The rollout in Dublin seems to have stalled repeatedly over the past few months and the electrification works at Roxboro Depot are moving at a steady but unspectacular pace, presumably influenced by the timeline for Hitachi to manufacture, install and commission its MV substation.

AX636

Late Oct early November is what I'm hearing in Dublin Bus with Summerhill being the first garage.

p_haugh

Going by Facebook and Tapatalk, there'll be a couple of EWs in service on the 123 from Monday.

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121163359#Comment_121163359

A driver said four buses will be out on Monday on the 123 that's the plan, but i think its only going to be one.

LXFlyer

EW2 is in service on the 123 this morning.

DaBluBoi

Video of it in service:

https://youtu.be/NAoVVXUcH20?si=7OwUTBKqAQg0n3WM

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185166#Comment_121185166

Looks good!

Liking the new stop announcement screens but they seem to be basic on the details for now. Hopefully they flesh them out a bit more over time, i.e. realtime for the next couple of routes for the given stop etc. Or even just have something similar to the BE style, a list of upcoming stops for that route and how far away they are.

mikeybhoy

Dublinbusstuff.com have a piece on them

https://www.dublinbusstuff.com/PhotoWeek/EWClass.html

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185273#Comment_121185273

Look very similar to the PAs inside

p_haugh

EW61 is the first of the Electric double deckers to start tracking on the api. It's up on bus times for those looking to spot one (has only been on one trip this morning, however).

https://bustimes.org/vehicles/ie-2410

NIMAN

Last few months has seen Derry get a selection of electric buses, both single and double deckers.

zg3409

Not my pic

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187241#Comment_121187241

This will be the standard interior going forward. Buses Trains and commuter coaches will have same fabric design.

bk

That is a fantastic picture, makes so much sense, easy to see if someone forgot to plug the bus in and charging.

thomasj

One of the new electric buses broken down halfway up the cabra road this morning. Traffic backed up behind it all the way back to cabra cross

dublinman1990

The report on the new electric buses on Prime Time was very interesting last night.

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2023/1107/1415097-dozens-of-electric-buses-not-in-use-due-to-lack-of-charge-points/

The NTA are still saying though that the charging points in Summerhill will go live later this month. Phibsboro's charging points will go live in December.

There has to be some action taken to get the electric charging points in the remainder of the depots to be built now while making them exempt under current planning legislation.

What could it take in legal terms to do that particular work?

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340000#Comment_121340000

It's also out of date. They say there's none of the new buses in service yet, yet there's been ones out in service since mid-October!

bk

Yes I found that prime time article poorly written and out of date. Clearly some of the new buses are already in service. Also they make a comparison with Norway already having a 100% electric bus fleet. But Norway uses all single decker buses, so it is an apples to orange comparison. It is far easier to electrify single decker buses, than double deckers. The battery technology has only matured enough to make it an option for double deckers in the past year or two.

Of course, we clearly have problems with the planning process in Ireland and that needs fixing, but this is a relatively small example of it versus the much more serious delays that the likes of Dart+, Metrolink and BusConnects face.

john boye

They also seemed to show a lot of pictures of the hybrids when talking about the electrics not being in service and then immediately showed clips of lots of hybrids in service!

devnull

Does it really surprise you though?

As stated the Norway comparison was completely illogical because it's a totally different city which has 5 metro lines (with another on the way), 6 tram lines etc which make for a far more developed non bus public transport network overall where people generally travel shorter distances on buses. so single decks would suffice. That is completely different to Dublin where the average bus passenger journey is much longer and Bus is the main mode of transport in the city where double decks are required and double deck electrical vehicles with appropriate range are far less established compared to single decks.

I have to say that the quote from the NBRU suggesting that exempting bus garages for planning legislation to deal with this problem is the kind of fanciful pie in the sky solution I'd come to expect from the NBRU. It's hard to take them seriously when they come out with statements like that. It's nowhere near as simple as they are suggesting and is populist nonsense. Now don't get me wrong, I do think that there is room for planning law reform in this country, but the idea that we can just start bypassing the whole planning system when we feel like it isn't something I could ever support.

The media in this country have a very poor understanding of public transport, infrastructure and the parts that make it up in general and it's sadly there generally are always more articles that suffer from poor research and ill-informed analysis than the ones which actually are able to do that properly. It's not just on TV though. I often squirm when I hear people from the industry be interviewed on the radio as it's normally quite apparent that the person interviewing them has no idea about the industry, the key optics or how it works.

This is a shame for us as a country as it also means that the powers that be, whether that is the Department for Transport, The NTA, the operators themselves or anyone else involved in the industry, do not get the level of scrutiny that they should do as the media are not properly able to hold them to account as they lack the understanding, don't care, or both.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343471#Comment_121343471

Not really for capacity reasons. The continental 12m single deckers are usually designed differently than Irish/UK single deckers. I was on a single decker in Italy with 3 doors which I noticed was plated to carry 90 pax which is very similar to a normal double decker in the UK/Ireland because there were few seats and plenty of room for standing pax and bendies generally carry about 150.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121344437#Comment_121344437

Yep, they have the same capacity, but much less seats, those sort of single deckers have about 30 seats, while a typical Dublin Decker would have over double the number of seats, high 60's to 70's seats depending on model (SG 67 seats for example).

Interestingly over time we have been slowly moving to less seats, the AV/AX had 76 seats while I think the EW class has 65. Of course mostly to make space for wheelchairs, buggies, etc. but when not in use leaves more standing space.

Now I'm curios how the O route single deckers will be configured, the single deckers in Cork were definitely configured for many seats and have poor capacity versus the double deckers.

The point still stands though, having so few seats on a single decker is acceptable when you are only travelling relatively short distances, mostly between Metro stations, etc. It wouldn't work for our current setup of very long bus routes, though I'd love to see us move that direction in time.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121345613#Comment_121345613

The buses to be used on the O Route are the same as the fleet used by Bus Éireann in Athlone.

donkey balls

Was talking to a truck driver who was delivering into our place his company has got some electric trucks? I asked him about charging and he said the rapid chargers take the truck about 45mins to charge and the slow charge a few hours.

He did mention that they spend most times on a low loader after technical issues.

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340000#Comment_121340000

Sunday 19 November for Summerhill launch

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121360445#Comment_121360445

https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews/status/1726276324111856018

EWs were meant to be out from today but according to AV415 on Tapatalk (they're a Summerhill driver), the buses were kept off duty for the photo op.

dublinman1990

As per the NTA press release today; Summerhill's charging infrastructure has the ability to charge 56 buses in the depot. Although releasing 20 buses into Summerhill over a few weeks seems a bit small. I thought there would be more than that stored in Ardee. Although some of the EW's are for Bus Eireann in Limerick.

Once the chargers are up & running in Phibsboro from December. It will charge 80 buses in the depot.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/transport-minister-nta-and-dublin-bus-unveil-electric-bus-charging-infrastructure/

Trouwe Ier

Hitachi charging stations, as is the case at Roxboro Depot, where rumour has it that the first of the EWDs may arrive towards the end of the coming week. I think that there are/will be chargers for 48 buses at Roxboro although there is plenty of room for more as it has a far bigger "footprint" than Summerhill.

p_haugh

Bit of an insight to the charging setup at Summerhill

https://twitter.com/CEO_DublinBus/status/1727618028811010156

p_haugh

At least 11 EWs have entered service now according to Bustimes (However EW2 hasnt tracked in over a month)

They've still mostly been restricted to the 122/123, but some of them have done some workings on the 15B, C1/2 and even the L59.

AX636

EW2 is back in Wrightbus

mikeybhoy

What garage will getting chargers next after Broadstone and Summerhill?

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121473426#Comment_121473426

Ringsend and Harristown I think

bk

Interestingly it seems the new EW's are out in force on the 123 route now. I was out walking today and noticed 4 EW's on the 123 in a few minutes. Looking on bustimes.org it seems of the 10 buses out at the time on the route, 9 were EW's and one SG.

Nice to see them appearing in large numbers like this now.

ELM327

Interesting. 75kW (not kV - sic- as dozo mentioned) DC charging for 48 buses. Probably some load sharing so let's say 2*24 75kW chargers. That's some setup. I assume it's cheaper than Derv.

AX636

Today they are all spread out on Summerhill routes, mainly SG' on the 123 today

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525321#Comment_121525321

Boooo… lol, most be reading boards and messing with us 👋😁

It was cool to see so many back to back, they look and sound great.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525321#Comment_121525321

Is that to keep the failures spread wide rather than having a load of them concentrated on one route and shredding reliability?

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525789#Comment_121525789

No idea, but at the end of the day they will be on every route in the garage anyway