Neighbour building extension-concerns

jomalone14

Hi all

I have a terraced 2 bed property. My next door neighbour, also terraced, wishes to put a single story extension at the back. No planning permission as extension will be under the size that would warrant planning permission.
He is planning on doing most of the building himself.

No previous terraced houses in the same development have been extended.

The back of the houses are all flush/in line with each other, with double doors on ground floor leading from the sitting room to the garden, one double bedroom window on the first floor.

The neighbour plans to extend to the full width of the house ie remove the existing fencing that boundaries our two properties (doing the same on the other side) and build his extension right on the boundary.
I have no intentions of ever extending my own house so this extension won't benefit me in any way.
I don't want to object for the sake of objecting however, I do have concerns.

My questions/concerns are:

1. Can he do this with or without my agreement?

2. Should I give him the go ahead to do this?

3. How will I know if this build is constructed correctly if he does it himself? Will I need to engage someone to ensure that my concerns are being met? Who would I go to?

4. Should the neighbour pay for anyone I engage? I feel I shouldn't be out of pocket.

5. Damage to my garden/fencing.......how do I ensure that everything is restored to its former condition?

6. Is this likely to impact on the resale value of my own house? How do I find this out?

Is there anything else I should be concerned about? Should I speak to the neighbour on the other side of him? I am meeting him sometime this week to discuss his proposals but I want to be fully prepared.

All opinions/advice gratefully received.

BryanF

What age is the estate? Is there any clause in the first principle planning application that removes such exemptions?

1. Probably yes
2. Not your place
3. You won’t; 3b:If you want; 3c: engineer
4. Not necessarily
5. There is laws governing boundary’s. It’s a civil mater. Neighbour should reinstate fence & garden. Talk to youre Neighbour about this.
6. Not really. Speak to an auctioneer.

average_runner

jomalone14 wrote: »

Hi all

I have a terraced 2 bed property. My next door neighbour, also terraced, wishes to put a single story extension at the back. No planning permission as extension will be under the size that would warrant planning permission.
He is planning on doing most of the building himself.

No previous terraced houses in the same development have been extended.

The back of the houses are all flush/in line with each other, with double doors on ground floor leading from the sitting room to the garden, one double bedroom window on the first floor.

The neighbour plans to extend to the full width of the house ie remove the existing fencing that boundaries our two properties (doing the same on the other side) and build his extension right on the boundary.
I have no intentions of ever extending my own house so this extension won't benefit me in any way.
I don't want to object for the sake of objecting however, I do have concerns.

My questions/concerns are:

1. Can he do this with or without my agreement?

2. Should I give him the go ahead to do this?

3. How will I know if this build is constructed correctly if he does it himself? Will I need to engage someone to ensure that my concerns are being met? Who would I go to?

4. Should the neighbour pay for anyone I engage? I feel I shouldn't be out of pocket.

5. Damage to my garden/fencing.......how do I ensure that everything is restored to its former condition?

6. Is this likely to impact on the resale value of my own house? How do I find this out?

Is there anything else I should be concerned about? Should I speak to the neighbour on the other side of him? I am meeting him sometime this week to discuss his proposals but I want to be fully prepared.

All opinions/advice gratefully received.

This happened to my parents and the council blocked our neighbour from building on the boundary as it is shared. So you can block that part.

Your neighbour cant come across your side with any of the roof also.

jomalone14

BryanF wrote: »

What age is the estate? Is there any clause in the first principle planning application that removes such exemptions?

1. Probably yes
2. Not your place
3. You won’t; 3b:If you want; 3c: engineer
4. Not necessarily
5. There is laws governing boundary’s. It’s a civil mater. Neighbour should reinstate fence & garden. Talk to youre Neighbour about this.
6. Not really. Speak to an auctioneer.

Thanks for your quick response.
The estate was built in 1999. Like any estate, a few 3 bed houses (semi detached/end of terrace) have been extended but none of the terraced houses have.

Is there any clause in the first principle planning application that removes such exemptions?

I've no idea, how would I find out?

jomalone14

average_runner wrote: »

This happened to my parents and the council blocked our neighbour from building on the boundary as it is shared. So you can block that part.

Your neighbour cant come across your side with any of the roof also.

Thanks average runner.
Was planning permission sought and refused in your parent's case with their neighbour?
This proposed extension won't require planning so I'm unsure how I could get the council involved.

BryanF

average_runner wrote: »

This happened to my parents and the council blocked our neighbour from building on the boundary as it is shared. So you can block that part.

Your neighbour cant come across your side with any of the roof also.

There must have been something more to this? Can you explain how the council ‘blocked’ this?

OP
Look up your planning authorities online system and check the planning conditions.

rayjdav

1: He can do it without your permission, even if it is exempted development.
2: Makes no difference. As above.
3: As said, engineer is best bet.
4: Heres the good news. Yes, he should pay.:D;) Have a look at Section 44 of the Land And Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec44.

5: As per S.44 above
6: Your call. Nothing to do with legislation. Auctioneer I suppose is best bet??

As BryanF said, look at the planning file as a lot of housing estates state that exempted works are not that in estates. As it is 1999, this is not an online jobby. You will have to go in and look at the file over the counter.

Calahonda52

average_runner wrote: »

This happened to my parents and the council blocked our neighbour from building on the boundary as it is shared. So you can block that part.

Your neighbour cant come across your side with any of the roof also.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/enacted/en/print#part8-chap3
as quoted earlier makes it clear that there is some other issue here:

Consent is NOT required/ In other works, access cannot be denied, for access to carry out building works as described in the legislation

jomalone14

Thanks rayjday and Calahonda52

So, just to clarify:

My neighbour CAN build/use the party wall for his extension and I CANNOT object? Really?? Is he then asking for my permission simply out of courtesy? I will be saying I'm not happy with him building on the boundary wall but he can ignore me and build anyway?

I would have to grant him access to my garden for the duration of the build for foundations, upwards build, rendering etc. Surely that would amount to trespass if I stated I'm not happy with him building on the boundary wall?

He will be self building so this extension could go on and on. The length of the build would also concern me if this is likely going to impact on me.

He must restore my garden to it's original condition at his cost.

He should pay all reasonable costs incurred for obtaining professional advice by me.

doug82

jomalone14 wrote: »

Thanks rayjday and Calahonda52

So, just to clarify:

My neighbour CAN build/use the party wall for his extension and I CANNOT object? Really?? Is he then asking for my permission simply out of courtesy? I will be saying I'm not happy with him building on the boundary wall but he can ignore me and build anyway?

I would have to grant him access to my garden for the duration of the build for foundations, upwards build, rendering etc. Surely that would amount to trespass if I stated I'm not happy with him building on the boundary wall?

He will be self building so this extension could go on and on. The length of the build would also concern me if this is likely going to impact on me.

He must restore my garden to it's original condition at his cost.

He should pay all reasonable costs incurred for obtaining professional advice by me.

You said in the original post that the boundary is a fence. Now you’re saying a wall. Can you clarify? Also is your neighbour intending for his extension wall to become the new boundary?

Calahonda52

jomalone14 wrote: »

Thanks rayjday and Calahonda52

So, just to clarify:

My neighbour CAN build/use the party wall for his extension and I CANNOT object? Really?? Is he then asking for my permission simply out of courtesy? I will be saying I'm not happy with him building on the boundary wall but he can ignore me and build anyway?

I would have to grant him access to my garden for the duration of the build for foundations, upwards build, rendering etc. Surely that would amount to trespass if I stated I'm not happy with him building on the boundary wall?

He will be self building so this extension could go on and on. The length of the build would also concern me if this is likely going to impact on me.

He must restore my garden to it's original condition at his cost.

He should pay all reasonable costs incurred for obtaining professional advice by me.

Not if he gets the district court order which will cost him north of 2,500 euro in legal fees
Thus your consent cannot be withheld unless the DC finds some reason for not granting the court order for the works if the two of you cannot agree and he goes to court.

Both parties have rights and responsibilities, you have only listed his responsibilities to you:)
Read it all, not just what you want to see:D

No, he can't build on the boundary. If he did that, his roof and/or guttering would overhang into your property. He also can't destroy your fence willy nilly.

If you go around daft or such and look at houses with rear extensions, you'll note a lot of rear (and front) extensions have about a 6 inch 'dead space' gap between the wall of the extension and the boundary wall. This is an unusable, dead space, and exists usually because the neighbours don't feel comfortable asking can they demolish the wall.

In my case of my rear extension, I asked my neighbour, and I demolished the wall that joins the two back properties, and built my wall on it. My gutter and fascia etc. overhang into her property as a result (but we all get on, so it's not an issue).


That said - I'm not saying that them building on the boundary is a bad thing. For example, if you fear this may block light, etc. you can let them build on the boundary, and paint the side of the extension white or cream and the light will bounce off it and illuminate the back of your house (you'd arguably get more light into your house this way).

Also, if you extended yourself (I realise you say you've no interest in that, but if you ever did) you could use his existing wall as part of your extension.


I believe all of this is covered in the Party Wall Act.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

No, he can't build on the boundary.

yes he can, that has been dealt with already in this thread.... and if you actually read the link you gave, youll see thats its possible.

Deleted User wrote: »

If he did that, his roof and/or guttering would overhang into your property.

it can be constructed so that neither of those happen

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

yes he can, that has been dealt with already in this thread.... and if you actually read the link you gave, youll see thats its possible.




it can be constructed so that neither of those happen

Perhaps I'm having an 'off moment', but I can't see where either state that you can simply remove an existing boundary wall/fence/whatever, and build the side of your house on it.

cruizer101

This is section 44 they are referring to, b which I've bolded I think would cover this case.
There is a bit further down which says they have to pay for any professional advice, I've bolded it too.

44.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), a building owner may carry out works to a party structure for the purpose of—

(a) compliance with any statutory provision or any notice or order under such a provision, or

(b) carrying out development which is exempted development or development for which planning permission has been obtained or compliance with any condition attached to such permission, or

(c) preservation of the party structure or of any building or unbuilt-on land of which it forms a part, or

(d) carrying out any other works which—

(i) will not cause substantial damage or inconvenience to the adjoining owner, or

(ii) if they may or will cause such damage or inconvenience, it is nevertheless reasonable to carry them out.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), in exercising any right under subsection (1) the building owner shall—

(a) make good all damage caused to the adjoining owner as a consequence of the works, or reimburse the adjoining owner the reasonable costs and expenses of such making good, and

(b) pay to the adjoining owner—

(i) the reasonable costs of obtaining professional advice with regard to the likely consequences of the works, and

(ii) reasonable compensation for any inconvenience caused by the works.

rayjdav

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps I'm having an 'off moment', but I can't see where either state that you can simply remove an existing boundary wall/fence/whatever, and build the side of your house on it.

The S.I. noted states what is required. I think I would have a little bit more faith in a Statutory Instrument than an image from daft.ie;)

Section 43 of the Act defines as such:

“party structure” means any arch, ceiling, ditch, fence, floor, hedge, partition, shrub, tree, wall or other structure which horizontally, vertically or in any other way—

(a) divides adjoining and separately owned buildings, or

(b) is situated at or on or so close to the boundary line between adjoining and separately owned buildings or between such buildings and unbuilt-on lands that it is impossible or not reasonably practical to carry out works to the structure without access to the adjoining building or unbuilt-on land,

and includes any such structure which is—

(i) situated entirely in or on one of the adjoining buildings or unbuilt-on lands, or

(ii) straddles the boundary line between adjoining buildings or between such buildings and unbuilt-on lands and is either co-owned by their respective owners or subject to some division of ownership between them;

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps I'm having an 'off moment', but I can't see where either state that you can simply remove an existing boundary wall/fence/whatever, and build the side of your house on it.

it says it here:

Are neighbours entitled to carry out these works?

Under the Act either party are entitled to carry out certain works. Both the works and any inconvenience are limited to being "reasonable". Any damage done during the course of the works, has to be made good.

and to be more detailed, it says it here in the actual legislation (read the bolded bits):

44.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), a building owner may carry out works to a party structure for the purpose of—

(a) compliance with any statutory provision or any notice or order under such a provision, or

(b) carrying out development which is exempted development or development for which planning permission has been obtained or compliance with any condition attached to such permission, or

(c) preservation of the party structure or of any building or unbuilt-on land of which it forms a part, or

(d) carrying out any other works which—

(i) will not cause substantial damage or inconvenience to the adjoining owner, or

(ii) if they may or will cause such damage or inconvenience, it is nevertheless reasonable to carry them out.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), in exercising any right under subsection (1) the building owner shall—

(a) make good all damage caused to the adjoining owner as a consequence of the works, or reimburse the adjoining owner the reasonable costs and expenses of such making good, and

(b) pay to the adjoining owner—

(i) the reasonable costs of obtaining professional advice with regard to the likely consequences of the works, and

(ii) reasonable compensation for any inconvenience caused by the works.

(3) The building owner may—

(a) claim from the adjoining owner as a contribution to, or deduct from any reimbursement of, the cost and expenses of making good such damage under subsection (2)(a), or

(b) deduct from compensation under subsection (2)(b)(ii),

such sum as will take into account the proportionate use or enjoyment of the party structure which the adjoining owner makes or, it is reasonable to assume, is likely to make.

so essentially..... anyone can do works to a party wall so long as they reimburse the adjoining neighbour appropriately.

It should also understood that a rendered concrete wall as the new party wall, may be interpreted as reasonable reimbursement in the first instance..... and not only this, but the person carrying out works on the party wall can also claim damages against the adjoining neighbour for the costs of making good any damages in accordance with section (3) if its deemed the adjoining neighbour profits from the new party structure.

I'm not trying to be deliberately difficult, but it still doesn't say you can remove it anywhere there. From reading the above you can do work to the wall, or work to it, but not remove and build on it, without the permission of the adjoining owner.

This is why, as i mentioned in my 'daft' example, you often see the party wall stay where it is and the extension built a few inches away from it. Also, as per the OP, you can't just wander in and out of someone's garden, or you're there illegally.

sydthebeat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not trying to be deliberately difficult, but it still doesn't say you can remove it anywhere there. From reading the above you can do work to the wall, or work to it, but not remove and build on it, without the permission of the adjoining owner.
.

I'm sorry but no where on that daft site, or within the legislation I have posted about does the words "without the permission of the neighbour" appear.......

You're reading something that isn't there.

So to clarify, an owner CAN carry out works to a party structure without the permission of the adjoining neighbour once the conditions I've shown above are met.

A neighbour can always say no to the offer of reimbursement, which will lead both parties to the courts to sort out.... Usually with the original owner obtaining a works order to carry out the world once reasonable.

Edit:
The definition of "works" in the legislation include—

(a) carrying out works of adjustment, alteration, cutting into or away, decoration, demolition, improvement, lowering, maintenance, raising, renewal, repair, replacement, strengthening or taking down,

Calahonda52

Deleted User wrote: »

...

In my case of my rear extension, I asked my neighbour, and I demolished the wall that joins the two back properties, and built my wall on it. My gutter and fascia etc. overhang into her property as a result (but we all get on, so it's not an issue).....

In fact it is an issue as you can't sell without her written consent.
Strange but true

rayjdav

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not trying to be deliberately difficult, but it still doesn't say you can remove it anywhere there. From reading the above you can do work to the wall, or work to it, but not remove and build on it, without the permission of the adjoining owner.

This is why, as i mentioned in my 'daft' example, you often see the party wall stay where it is and the extension built a few inches away from it. Also, as per the OP, you can't just wander in and out of someone's garden, or you're there illegally.

Not been smart here but when an extract to legislation is shown, it rarely is stand alone. To understand the context of the wording in a section usually requires reading a lot of different sub sections to understand definitions, like above, S.34 requires S.33 to be read to understand definitions etc etc.. It may not spell out in black and white straight in front of you but in the context of the complete Instrument, usually one (sub)-section links to another to give you the information required.

Above is general comment for the many on here who can't get their heads around S.I.'s as they can be extremely confusing to follow bed time reading...

jomalone14

doug82 wrote: »

You said in the original post that the boundary is a fence. Now you’re saying a wall. Can you clarify? Also is your neighbour intending for his extension wall to become the new boundary?

It's currently a fence with concrete posts between the 2 properties.
Yes, the neighbour intends for the extension wall to become the new boundary ie build where the fence currently is.

antiskeptic

jomalone14 wrote: »

Hi all

I have a terraced 2 bed property. My next door neighbour, also terraced, wishes to put a single story extension at the back. No planning permission as extension will be under the size that would warrant planning permission.
He is planning on doing most of the building himself.

No previous terraced houses in the same development have been extended.

The back of the houses are all flush/in line with each other, with double doors on ground floor leading from the sitting room to the garden, one double bedroom window on the first floor.

The neighbour plans to extend to the full width of the house ie remove the existing fencing that boundaries our two properties (doing the same on the other side) and build his extension right on the boundary.
I have no intentions of ever extending my own house so this extension won't benefit me in any way.
I don't want to object for the sake of objecting however, I do have concerns.

My questions/concerns are:

1. Can he do this with or without my agreement?

2. Should I give him the go ahead to do this?

3. How will I know if this build is constructed correctly if he does it himself? Will I need to engage someone to ensure that my concerns are being met? Who would I go to?

4. Should the neighbour pay for anyone I engage? I feel I shouldn't be out of pocket.

5. Damage to my garden/fencing.......how do I ensure that everything is restored to its former condition?

6. Is this likely to impact on the resale value of my own house? How do I find this out?

Is there anything else I should be concerned about? Should I speak to the neighbour on the other side of him? I am meeting him sometime this week to discuss his proposals but I want to be fully prepared.

All opinions/advice gratefully received.

I'd take a positive attitude to it, if I were you. It is a neighbour and retaining a good relationship is paramount. And you can get out of it ahead if you play your cards right

1. Let the neighbour build on the party line. It makes the best use of limited space (and so you're contributing to space efficiency - something which people will get the benefit of for years to come). Whether he builds inside his garden or on the party line doesn't alter the impact on you all that much.

2. Ensure the foundations are properly sized for full two storey building - even if the neighbour only intends to go single and you intend to do nothing. Sometimes people cut corners here and do less-than-they-ought foundations simply because it's single storey. You future proof with proper foundations

3. Ensure the new party wall is 4" solid block on flat. A solid block wall will meet fire regs for building separation should you (or a future owner) ever decide to extend and want to use the party wall as the side wall of your own structure. At present, the neighbour could simply use cavity but if you extend you'd have to build a new wall inside the party wall to meet fire regs. Suggest he do the same on the other side too.

I'd get the neighbour to build a parapet wall: his roof joists would run perpendicular to the rear of the house and if you were extending (single or double) it would minimise future disruption

4. Have a written agreement drawn up that grants you permission to utilise the new party wall for your own extension (exempted or one granted planning), if ever you decide to. This right attaching to title such that future owners of your property can avail of it.

5. Is he building over the sewer? You might ask for a cctv of the sewer pre works in order to ensure than any future problems are laid at his feet (especially if you are upstream). Co-opting other neighbours (especially those upstream of him) might help add a bit of pressure if he resist. Even downstream neighbours could be affected if concrete, tiling compound, plaster end up solidifying in the sewer. A cctv post works would be beneficial to ensure all is left well post works. They aren't that expensive.

tradesman

+1 for the above. Very good points & Preparing for future works. Everyone happy in the end

Calahonda52

antiskeptic wrote: »

...
3. Ensure the new party wall is 4" solid block on flat. A solid block wall will meet fire regs for building separation should you (or a future owner) ever decide to extend and want to use the party wall as the side wall of your own structure. At present, the neighbour could simply use cavity but if you extend you'd have to build a new wall inside the party wall to meet fire regs. Suggest he do the same on the other side too.

3a I'd get the neighbour to build a parapet wall : his roof joists would run perpendicular to the rear of the house and if you were extending (single or double) it would minimise future disruption

....

To clarify for the OP?

re 3, so if 4" on flat at right angles then will mean a 9" wide wall.
4" on flat as normal, without piers, would not work for a two storey extension

3a: Wall should finish horizontal with single slope capping stones throwing water back to him

Calahonda52

Calahonda52 wrote: »

In fact it is an issue as you can't sell without her written consent.
Strange but true

Where do you get that from, out of curiosity?


According to my builder, and a brief word with my solicitor, anyone buying either my house or the neighbours simply has to accept what they're buying, as it's already been built, and would be sold 'as seen'.


The property boundaries haven't moved.

Calahonda52

Deleted User wrote: »

Where do you get that from, out of curiosity?


According to my builder, and a brief word with my solicitor, anyone buying either my house or the neighbours simply has to accept what they're buying, as it's already been built, and would be sold 'as seen'.


The property boundaries haven't moved.

That may be your lawyer but I am sure you can find one who will take another view.


Okay, so roll on say 10 years and you want to clean your gutters that overhang or pair say a loose tile.
How will that work?
I know cherry pickers have been used to do this work: one man went to the High Court and got it stopped as it was his airspace:D

The letter of consent that I have seen covers that off


When I did planning stuff with Fingal, the conditions were very clear on no overhangs

Calahonda52

Calahonda52 wrote: »

That may be your lawyer but I am sure you can find one who will take another view.

You do raise some interesting points, to be fair, but I think you really must have two neighbours that absolutely despise each other before that kinda stuff becomes an issue?


Thankfully my estate in general doesn't seem like that (not that it's a great place, but most people are decent enough with trivial things like that).

Marcusm

Deleted User wrote: »

Where do you get that from, out of curiosity?


According to my builder, and a brief word with my solicitor, anyone buying either my house or the neighbours simply has to accept what they're buying, as it's already been built, and would be sold 'as seen'.


The property boundaries haven't moved.

Absent a legal agreement with the adjacent property owner, your gutters are trespassing and up to the point at which you get legal rights (whether through express agreement or adverse possession, ie squatters rights) you can be instructed to remove them or they can remove them without any recourse from you.

Marcusm

Deleted User wrote: »

You do raise some interesting points, to be fair, but I think you really must have two neighbours that absolutely despise each other before that kinda stuff becomes an issue?


Thankfully my estate in general doesn't seem like that (not that it's a great place, but most people are decent enough with trivial things like that).

You might think that but it’s very bad practice. I have an aunt who did not object to a neighbour’s gutters on a garden room. Now that his wife has died and there are poor relations between them, it has become a significant bone of contention as her pre existing creepers have invaded his gutters and he has tried to cut them despite his gutters “trespassing”. On a main part of your house, I think it’s naive (and frankly a little selfish) not to have the gutters within your own property boundary. You have effectively sterilised the neighbours property.

tradesman

It is always bettter to keep the gutters at least 25mm in from the boundary. In the grand scheme of things the approx. 200mm that you might gain by having your wall on the boundary is not worth the potential hassle with neighbours / future neighbours

antiskeptic

Calahonda52 wrote: »

To clarify for the OP?

re 3, so if 4" on flat at right angles then will mean a 9" wide wall.
4" on flat as normal, without piers, would not work for a two storey extension

I stand corrected.

Calahonda52

tradesman wrote: »

It is always bettter to keep the gutters at least 25mm in from the boundary. In the grand scheme of things the approx. 200mm that you might gain by having your wall on the boundary is not worth the potential hassle with neighbours / future neighbours

I see this differently
It is, IMHO, best to build on the boundary so both sides have equal access to the wall.

In any event, if building a 300 wide wall: cavity wall with 100mm gap
the the rule of thumb is that the foundation should be 900 wide wide wall in middle, otherwise u are into a trickier design

antiskeptic wrote: »

I stand corrected.

Neither required nor what I was after:)
I just was checking & calling for the OP.
Keep well:)

seamus

Tbh, you're better off avoiding fascias and gutters on the neighbour's side at all. Build the boundary above the roof of the extension and cap it off, leaving it as a parapet. Avoids any arguments over cleaning and repairing guttering, and it also means that the neighbour can build against the boundary wall (or even on top of it) without your permission and without having to remove parts of your house.

jomalone14

Thanks so much to everyone for all the comments.......really useful.

Just to update this thread:

I met with the neighbour last week. It was hard for me to fully understand him as he's a non national.

He had no plans down on paper and it's not likely he will have either before he builds. He is self building- himself and a few mates who work in construction. They will be building on a Saturday/Sunday as they work full time during the week.

He has stated that he wants to use the boundary for his extension ie remove the first 2 fence panels and concrete posts and build right on the line. The neighbour on the other side has given him permission to do this. He is building a permanent canopy for her at her cost so win/win here.
He said that the foundations will be double the width of the wall on both sides when built.
He has assured me that no roofing or guttering will overhang into my property.
I asked him to explain how this would be - he is putting all guttering at the back of his extension only, facing his back garden wall. The roof of the extension will be a sloping roof and roofed in some type of metal material. He pointed out a neighbouring large block built shed which had a similar roof.
Water flows down a slope under normal conditions but under windy conditions, water could be driven off the sides.....and into my property.

To clarify, I am not living in this property anymore, it was my former home (so a little more than an investment now) but is now rented out longterm. This extension will cause disruption to my tenant which is something I also have to consider.

Where I am at now is this:

He has no drawings nor will he have - he could put up anything at all.

I don't live there - I won't know how well he is building this extension

I don't know the guy - can I trust him and his friends to build a proper extension and not an eyesore?

Am I silly to take him at his word? If I get everything in writing, surely it's not worth the paper it's written on if I don't engage a solicitor at my own cost? I get the impression he won't want to incur solicitor's fees.

I don't want to be obstructive and say no to him building on the boundary but I'm very nervous of what may happen once building starts, without any plans on paper or any agreement in writing.

I have to meet him again this week where he's expecting an answer either way......I seriously don't know what to do.....

Marcusm

How can he obtain planning permission without drawings, plans and elevations?

antiskeptic

Marcusm wrote: »

How can he obtain planning permission without drawings, plans and elevations?

Exempted development? By the sounds of it he's single storey x 2 fence posts from the rear of house. No 40sqm there in a two bed terrace.

1874

seamus wrote: »

Tbh, you're better off avoiding fascias and gutters on the neighbour's side at all. Build the boundary above the roof of the extension and cap it off, leaving it as a parapet. Avoids any arguments over cleaning and repairing guttering, and it also means that the neighbour can build against the boundary wall (or even on top of it) without your permission and without having to remove parts of your house.

They are very horrible untidy looking extensions, a relative had one with a flat roof, and eventually got a sloped roof on it, the gutter was still parallel to the house and not over the neighbours. I can never understand why anyone would build one now, although I saw one being constructed recently.
It would still be possible for a neighbour to build on top of a wall built on the boundary too and probably better for watertightness to match the neighbours roof and connect into the same roof tiles/slates if they were doing the same work later.
If each neighbour built at different times (likely) then each could build on their own side of the boundary, any gap could be used to make sure the foundation was wide enough and any space filled with a solid insulation? less space efficient but better than someone having gutters or roof overhanging your property.

jomalone14

antiskeptic wrote: »

Exempted development? By the sounds of it he's single storey x 2 fence posts from the rear of house. No 40sqm there in a two bed terrace.

Yes, exempted extension, no planning required

t8010789

You only have to walk your local streets to find soffits/fascias/guttering infringing into the adjacent property. As a previous poster commented, draw a vertical line from your boundary wall and that is your 'airspace'. I read about a case in the UK where tree branches were overhanging this guys fence, he was allowed to cut the branches back to the boundary line as long as he threw the cuttings back over the fence to his neighbour as they were legally his property.

There is a law, of which I can't remember the name, but its goes along the lines of, if nothing has been done about an infringement/boundary move in 12 years then it can't be challenged.

We recently built a rear single storey extension with a flat pitched roof, under 40sqm, permitted development. We stepped the extension in off the boundary wall and left what is referred to as a leaf catcher, there will never be any issue when it comes to boundary concerns if were to move. Two edges of the roof have small upstands that keep rainwater heading to a hidden gutter that is stepped back off the front of the extension. We had a builder do the work, but still we had to instruct an engineer to sign off on the job.

antiskeptic

jomalone14 wrote: »

Thanks so much to everyone for all the comments.......really useful.

Just to update this thread:

I met with the neighbour last week. It was hard for me to fully understand him as he's a non national.

He had no plans down on paper and it's not likely he will have either before he builds. He is self building- himself and a few mates who work in construction. They will be building on a Saturday/Sunday as they work full time during the week.

He has stated that he wants to use the boundary for his extension ie remove the first 2 fence panels and concrete posts and build right on the line. The neighbour on the other side has given him permission to do this. He is building a permanent canopy for her at her cost so win/win here.
He said that the foundations will be double the width of the wall on both sides when built.
He has assured me that no roofing or guttering will overhang into my property.
I asked him to explain how this would be - he is putting all guttering at the back of his extension only, facing his back garden wall. The roof of the extension will be a sloping roof and roofed in some type of metal material. He pointed out a neighbouring large block built shed which had a similar roof.
Water flows down a slope under normal conditions but under windy conditions, water could be driven off the sides.....and into my property.

To clarify, I am not living in this property anymore, it was my former home (so a little more than an investment now) but is now rented out longterm. This extension will cause disruption to my tenant which is something I also have to consider.

Where I am at now is this:

He has no drawings nor will he have - he could put up anything at all.

I don't live there - I won't know how well he is building this extension

I don't know the guy - can I trust him and his friends to build a proper extension and not an eyesore?

Am I silly to take him at his word? If I get everything in writing, surely it's not worth the paper it's written on if I don't engage a solicitor at my own cost? I get the impression he won't want to incur solicitor's fees.

I don't want to be obstructive and say no to him building on the boundary but I'm very nervous of what may happen once building starts, without any plans on paper or any agreement in writing.

I have to meet him again this week where he's expecting an answer either way......I seriously don't know what to do.....

Have a look at mypartywall.ie. There's bit about your being entitled (under law) to have reasonable professional fees, arising out of your protecting your interest in the party boundary, paid for by your building-intent neighbour.

An enquiry to a solicitor conversant with same sounds like your next move.

Certainly you want some kind of formal agreement and if he can be made pay..

aceberg

If I build an extension 2 meters from my rear back door and it is only connected to the main property by/with 1 wall. Does this constitute an extension?

Gumbo

aceberg wrote: »

If I build an extension 2 meters from my rear back door and it is only connected to the main property by/with 1 wall. Does this constitute an extension?

No. Based on the limited info you’ve provided. It has to be physically connected and interlinked, so you have to be able to walk between the two internally.