Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

AndrewJRenko

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Don't be so sure.
I know of a fellow ( member of staff) caught masturbating in the library room of Dail Eireann, viewing porn on one of the computers.

Due to complaints from some of the female staff, the matter was quickly dealt with.
.............He got his own office .............

This didn't happen.

holliehobbie

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

retro:electro wrote: »

One of the most upsetting things I’ve ever watched. I’m glad we finally got to see a true representation of the man, a vile, abusive and narcissistic bully; and not the sympathetic portrayal that flooded the media in the aftermath. It didn’t even reference how he took his own life because who actually gives a shlt about what he did to himself. To take their lives is one thing, but what he did was overkill and savage slaughter. How anyone can take a hatchet to someone they claim to love, and he moved furniture weeks prior shows he had been planning it for a while. If there’s a hell I hope he’s rotting. Depression my hole. How insulting to many people who struggle with depression every day and don’t manage to annihilate their whole family.

And what about depressed people who jump in front of cars? Are they selfish?

Unfortunately they mostly jump in front of trains in Ireland. I really feel for the poor train drivers in that position.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

Would be interested to hear the majority opinion on this then. Would think most people who kill themselves would be pitied as they're "not in their right mind"

I don’t think many people were sympathetic of the Germanwings lad who decided to take 100+ people with him four years ago.

seamus

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

Would be interested to hear the majority opinion on this then. Would think most people who kill themselves would be pitied as they're "not in their right mind"

I think in general people are moving on from this caricature that suicidal people are distraight messes wandering down the middle of the road.

Suicidal thoughts and suicidal actions come in all shapes and sizes. For some (arguably a majority), it's a sudden irresistible impulse to end it. For others its the culmination of months or years of suffering. For others again it's a temporary state of mind brought on by external situations, or sometimes even pure chemical changes in the mind.

And for a very small number it comes about during a complete disconnection from reality and rational thought.

The majority of suicidal people are very much "in their right mind". They are thinking clearly and logically, they know exactly the impact of what they're about to do, but from their position it appears to be the lesser of two evils, even though its not.

It is possible to have sympathy for someone who commits suicide, without excusing the impact of those actions. They knew what the impact would be, but they did the act anyway. No more than a guy who gets into a drunken rage and beats someone up on a night out can be worthy of pity because he's having a tough time; that doesn't excuse the fact that he did it anyway.

Laois_Man

Spare a thought for the family of Rachel Callaly (O'Reilly) - she died in a simlar manner to Clodagh but the family face the prospect of seeing her killer walk free next week....if not then, some other time

They have also lost Rachel's sister since then too

The good thing about Alan Hawe is....at least the **** is dead and burned!

ohnonotgmail

Laois_Man wrote: »

Spare a thought for the family of Rachel Callaly (O'Reilly) - she died in a simlar manner to Clodagh but the family face the prospect of seeing her killer walk free next week....if not then, some other time

They have also lost Rachel's sister since then too

The good thing about Alan Hawe is....at least the **** is dead and burned!

He has only served 12 years so no chance of probation at this stage. He also still wont admit his guilt so he will be inside for a long time yet.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He has only served 12 years so no chance of probation at this stage. He also still wont admit his guilt so he will be inside for a long time yet.

If memory serves me correctly, 12 years is about the average duration for prisoners to serve in prison when a life sentence is imposed.

Not sure to what extent the Minister takes into account an admission of guilt or other factors though. I'm sure it does feature. But if that's the average figure, it's reasonable to assume that some people who get out after 12 years must still claim innocence. After all, some are apparently released considerably earlier.

ohnonotgmail

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If memory serves me correctly, 12 years is about the average duration for prisoners to serve in prison when a life sentence is imposed.

Not sure to what extent the Minister takes into account an admission of guilt or other factors though. I'm sure it does feature. But if that's the average figure, it's reasonable to assume that some people who get out after 12 years must still claim innocence. After all, some are apparently released considerably earlier.

It is much longer than that. the current average is 18.

Woke Hogan

It was a terribly tragic case but the speculation and the length of this thread really encapsulates the Irish's thirst for misery porn.

ohnonotgmail

Woke Hogan wrote: »

It was a terribly tragic case but the speculation and the length of this thread really encapsulates the Irish's thirst for misery porn.

I think it is more a case of people wanting to understand what happened. I haven't seen anybody here revelling in the case.

retro:electro

Woke Hogan wrote: »

It was a terribly tragic case but the speculation and the length of this thread really encapsulates the Irish's thirst for misery porn.

The programme only aired on Monday night, the thread isn’t even at 40 pages yet. Most people are posting their thoughts about the programme and airing sympathies to the family. Bear in mind that before this programme aired, nobody had any conclusive idea about just how much of a controlling narcissist Hawe actually was. A lot of presumptions about him were left up in the air, we now know the extent of his acts and how pre-meditated they were.
Your comment encapsulates the Irish thirst for begrudging what other people have interest in.

pawdee

Woke Hogan wrote: »

It was a terribly tragic case but the speculation and the length of this thread really encapsulates the Irish's thirst for misery porn.

Says himself. What are you doing here then?

DEFTLEFTHAND

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is much longer than that. the current average is 18.

Gone up to 22 now. 2016 statistics.

DEFTLEFTHAND

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If memory serves me correctly, 12 years is about the average duration for prisoners to serve in prison when a life sentence is imposed.

Not sure to what extent the Minister takes into account an admission of guilt or other factors though. I'm sure it does feature. But if that's the average figure, it's reasonable to assume that some people who get out after 12 years must still claim innocence. After all, some are apparently released considerably earlier.

It would be a huge black mark against a prisoner if they refused to admit guilt after doing a considerable stretch inside on a life sentence . Parole would be very unlikely.

I'd be looking at their case again if they were still steadfastly proclaiming their innocence.. Innocent people do end up in prison , the system is by no means perfect.

ohnonotgmail

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Gone up to 22 now. 2016 statistics.

You see, i had it in my head that it was 22 but i looked it up again very recently and found an article from 2018 where it says it was 18. But either way it is a lot more than 12.

Degringola

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

No you have it exactly right.

After Clodagh Hawe died, her assets passed in law to Alan Hawe, and since he was the last person alive, I'm pretty sure no will can even supersede the statutory provisions. So everything should pass to his next of kin.

He and his wife probably had a provision in their will that the kids should receive the assets but that's moot.

So as AH was the last to die, all assets would go to his next of kin. What was the point then in transferring a relatively small amount of money from the joint account to his own. It would also be held up in probate surely, and would not be accessible to pay for the funerals.

freshpopcorn

They are going to meet the Garda commissioner next week.

https://m.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/were-confident-well-get-access-to-files-family-of-murdered-clodagh-hawe-to-meet-with-garda-commissioner-37865902.html?fbclid=IwAR1dzcSUox10-gt5-MS2ikKmE8RD1aB9lvVcyiqSkZvmbr94sxZcAJG2v_g

iamwhoiam

Just on the news , they are hopeful they can access the Garda files
Two strong women and I hope they get all the help they need

dartboardio

Awful situation. I cant fathom how anyone could kill their own child/children/wife..

The people not telling them the full story are worse.

I seen this gofundme link on facebook the local church are raising funds for the mother i think

gf.me/u/q4waia

retro:electro

Two very graceful and dignified ladies who have shown amazing class and restraint when you wouldn’t blame them for being the opposite. I truly hope they get what they’re looking for.

donkeykong5

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Well, he called himself Liam when he married us, so that's what I know him as ....

http://www.inishmagrath.com/rededmass.html

2nd pic down

Front row. 2nd from right

Same guy?

Looks a bit like trump.

helimachoptor

Just watched. It there. I'm not an emotional person but jesus that's so sad.

Has it been released how he killed himself?

freshpopcorn

helimachoptor wrote: »

Just watched. It there. I'm not an emotional person but jesus that's so sad.

Has it been released how he killed himself?

From what I remember he hung himself.

had a **** in skewL and was caught parading around in womens undies.
he thought he'd save the family the shame of carrying his issues and do them the kind courtesy of murdering them in horrendous fashion..have i got it right?
all of this cloaked in a veil of the mental disease de jour, depression??
I said this before, in the dark ages, townsfolk would come upon similar scenes such as this..rather than admit the human condition, they'd blame were wolves and superstitious beings... that's how bad this is, calling it depression is the same fooking thing.. I cannot comprehend it, so I'll give it a name..it's savagery end of story..accept it.



so basically a fantasist like joe o Reily who did himself too??
a **** of the highest order... i wouldn't try mitigate him by saying he's misunderstood, or woe is he, what a burden to carry. it's a spit in the face of that family.

goat2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

No you have it exactly right.

After Clodagh Hawe died, her assets passed in law to Alan Hawe, and since he was the last person alive, I'm pretty sure no will can even supersede the statutory provisions. So everything should pass to his next of kin.

He and his wife probably had a provision in their will that the kids should receive the assets but that's moot.

I am sure that his family must be very hurt by all of this, his actions, they too knew his children and cherished them, and that they must feel awful for Clodagh and the children and her mother and sister

Elmer Blooker

gaius c wrote: »

Judging by what Kathleen Chada had to say, the family are unlikely to get any answers even if the information they seek is made public and she had the advantage that the murderer of her two boys is still alive.

Why should the information be made public? I saw the programme and that was enough information for me. If Clodagh's family want to release any information they receive that's up to them but I hope they don't.

Lets face it, this is manna from heaven for the grotty tabloids, it has everything- the cross dressing Jeckyl and Hyde monster, murder, porn, a primary school .... this is Catherine Nevin and the 'scissors sisters' multiplied by ten!
Like I said give Clodagh's family the information that they are entitled to and deserve but should the tabloids be encouraged to exploit this tragedy for all it's worth to sell 'papers'? Let Clodagh and her boys RIP.

jmayo

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

The porn addiction was clearly a central issue.

Why was he seeking counselling fro it?

People usually are forced to go for counselling often by employers.

TheDriver wrote: »

I think its probably the fact that its a professional file in a workplace that can't just be given out to anyone who asks. Its her family want it, not his family. And even at that, its a professional file that contains competency/grievances etc. I assume Gardai have checked and found nothing factual to report

Actually Tretorn raises interesting point.
If my kids were in that school I would definitely want to know what the the school authorities knew about this man and what steps they had been taking.

Hoboo wrote: »

Finally an intelligent and informed post. Kudos.

Unfortunately the masses really don't understand the complexities of mental health and the diverse and vast range of illnesses, symptoms and outcomes.

How a GP is meant to simply spot depression without the patient discussing it is beyond me. He could have been going to the GP for years for anything, and pretending to be fine.

I think the family would be better served receiving counselling themselves, not sure they'll get any kind of closure otherwise.

You have no right to basically tell the family to just put up with the appalling treatment they have received, as in not seeing the suicide note for 18 months, and just get on with counselling.

tretorn wrote: »

...
They still dont know what happened on the school premises, everyone one who had a child in the school needs to know what was going on and not just the Coll family.
All the schoolchildren were at risk too, he was a wslking time bomb and probably should have been in a mental hospital setting and not voluntarily attending a counsellor. A fully trained phychiatrist might have suspected he was a serious threat.

The school principal, board of management, Dept of Education and it seems his representative body, the INTO who are refusing to comment, have questions to answer on what was going on.

What did they know ?

What action was he facing ?

Not alone do her family need this information, but it should be a matter of urgency for the parents of all children in that school.

Refusing to disclose this information and trying to sweep this under the carpet as just being a "mental health issue of some sort" is typical of the shyte carried out in this country for far too long.

I am actually disappointed in the synopsis given by a leading expert Prof Harry Kennedy at the coroners inquest.
It is just too excusitory and there was no way in hell this was just a spur of the moment psychotic episode.

retro:electro

If anyone is interested in podcasts there is one called Mens Rea which deals with Irish cases, they covered this case a few episodes back. They’re not amazing by any stretch but decent if you’re looking for the basic info.

SoundsRight

Treating his sore toe with bleach was a bit of a red flag.

Is the response to this crime a reason why men are still reluctant to discuss mental health? You don't want people thinking you're slipping into psychosis.

Lollipops23

SoundsRight wrote: »

Treating his sore toe with bleach was a bit of a red flag.

Why? He had a fungal infection, prob thought it would kill it.

Muahahaha

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Or possibly a blind eye was turned to his behaviour for some reason, child protection protocols were ignored, and the school don’t want this to be revealed now?

tipptom wrote: »

Think the school has serious answers to give to parents about the timeline here.

What type of porn was this person accessing on a school computer and why was he still teaching from March up to the summer holidays and why was he going back after the holidays?

As said by others the timeline of the incidents are really troubling here.
What we know-
1. March- Alan Hawe admits to his wife that he watches porn and tells her he is seeking councelling
2. June 21st -Hawe goes to his GP and tells them that "he was having a conflict with a colleague". Hawe is stressed, has an ulcer and isn't sleeping properly. Sleeping tablets are prescribed. June 21st is also the day he cancels all his remaining councelling sessions and it is the last time he visits his GP

Now if the conflict with a colleague was due to him been caught watching porn in the school it raises serious questions about what the school did about it at the time. Surely Hawe should have been suspended immediately. The Teaching Council would have been informed, Tusla and the Gardai too. This does not seem to have happened and if anything it looks like he was only due to be suspended 8 weeks later on his return from summer holidays.

What I'm thinking now is that Hawe was caught red handed by a colleague who was below his position of Vice Principal of the school. This teacher informs on him but instead of him being immediately being suspended pending an investigation what followed was a political struggle at work as Hawe, in his position as Vice Principal battled to save his own skin. The INTO were part of this political struggle as they tried to save Hawe job. People involved on the Board of Management were in an argument about what to do. Because Hawe was seen as a pillar of the community, GAA coach and all round good Catholic at least some members of the Board of Management were trying to fob off his masturbation as a one off and that no further action was warranted. The Board of Management were incentivised to cover it up- after all think of the fallout for the school from a rural community at the revelation that the Vice Principal was caught masturbating at school. Parents would have been up in arms and taking their children out of the school. TDs would have been informed, it would have made national news. This is the last thing the Board of Managment would have wanted, the shame on them and the shame on the school in a small rural community would have been immense. Hence their instinct was to protect the institution of the school at all costs.

So for at least some of the summer the Board of Management were trying to keep a lid on it. But by the end of the summer something had changed. Someone found a conscience and said that if Hawe wasn't suspended then they were going to blow the whistle. This someone may well have been the colleague who initially caught Hawe masturbating.

All of the above is speculation of course but there is serious questions to be asked as to why it took the school the entire summer to take action against Hawe. All the while he was planning the murder of his Clodagh and the kids. If he had of just been suspended on the spot then his secret was out- he would have lost control. He said in the suicide note that it was all going to come out and that he would rather his entire family to be dead than to face the shame. This shame as he calls it should have come at the beginning of the summer, not eight weeks later on the eve of him returning to work in the school. If his secret had of been revealed and outed when he was actually caught then all control is removed from him and circumstances might have been very different.

This entire incident needs a public enquiry, not just into Alan Hawe but also all the other actors in the school and as to why they didn't act sooner.

The Coll family are meeting the Garda Commissioner shortly. Hopefully they'll get the answers they need. Sorry but speculation like the above is tittle-tattle; this isn't a soap opera.

JMNolan

There wouldn't be tittle-tattle and speculation if there was transparency

Paul Pogba

Has anyone a link to confirmation that he was caught watching porn in school by a colleague?? Not looking for a ‘source’ created by the red tops. Thanks.

clones1980

Paul Pogba wrote: »

Has anyone a link to confirmation that he was caught watching porn in school by a colleague?? Not looking for a ‘source’ created by the red tops. Thanks.

This is the transcript from Claire Byrne with Clodaghs mum:-

Claire: Did he say in that letter, why he did what he did?
Jacqueline: There were bits and pieces of information and as you know we went through and inquest and the law for the inquest is very limited so we only find out where, when, how it happened and who it happened to but we never found out the why and we were advised that that probably would never happen at the inquest.
But he has said in his own words that he was caught red-handed and we do know that he was looking at pornography on the school laptop and he never brought the school laptop home. We’ve had sight of the counselling notes and he had said he was masturbating somewhere that he shouldn’t have been, possibly at the school. So we have pieces of information but we don’t know who caught him.

freshpopcorn

Paul Pogba wrote: »

Has anyone a link to confirmation that he was caught watching porn in school by a colleague?? Not looking for a ‘source’ created by the red tops. Thanks.

I've seen links and it said claimed not confirmed!

zapitastas

A very impressive interview by clodagh's mother and sister. Must have been an incredibly difficult thing to do and is a shame that this is the route to go down in order to get the answers they need. Heart breaking story from the sister about having ring the garda liasion officer to find out if the media were correct in what they were reporting. Surely whatever Garda was leaking details to the media could see that the family should have the right to know first.

Paul Pogba

retro:electro wrote: »

The family have stated the are aware he was caught masterbating in work; they haven’t stated who caught him. People are assuming it was a colleague since he went on to divulge to a counsellor that he was having a “conflict” with a colleague around this time.
Looking through your posts it seems you set up your account to defend Hawe and only seem to post when his name crops up. Wrong’un.

I just base my opinions on facts and evidence rather than ‘sources’ ‘assumptions’ and the boards judge and jury. Does it offend you your honour.

retro:electro

Paul Pogba wrote: »

I just base my opinions on facts and evidence rather than ‘sources’ ‘assumptions’ and the boards judge and jury. Does it offend you your honour.

And the facts state that he murdered his family in the most heartless and savage of ways. That’s what matters here to most people. Do you have anything to say about that at all or are you just here to pick at people’s posts and seemingly defend this monster? A few days ago you corrected me for describing him as abusive, despite the fact he murdered his whole family in cold blood :rolleyes:

iamwhoiam

Paul Pogba wrote: »

I just base my opinions on facts and evidence rather than ‘sources’ ‘assumptions’ and the boards judge and jury. Does it offend you your honour.

I base my opinion on the words of two brave and dignified women who spoke out in their pain and hurt .

Paul Pogba

retro:electro wrote: »

And the facts state that he murdered his family in the most heartless and savage of ways. That’s what matters here to most people. Do you have anything to say about that at all or are you just here to pick at people’s posts and seemingly defend this monster? A few days ago you corrected me for describing him as abusive, despite the fact he murdered his whole family in cold blood :rolleyes:

Where did I defend him??

retro:electro

Had something written but deleted it cos can’t be bothered. This thread isn’t about you. You’re either ignorant of the facts or willfully obtuse. Either way you’re not worth speaking to.

This guy played "God" with the lives of his family.

What struck me throughout the week was one aspect of his note, where he said something like "why didn't people see the dark side of me?" I've reflected on that statement. I find it a very difficult statement to deal with. It's as if he's saying "I was hurting and no-one helped me"- "I was in difficulty and no-one could see it"- a "victim" statement in other words.

Again, controlling. Again, influencing what people might think of him, beyond the grave.

It doesn't wash with me.

He had perversions, fetishes or disorders, whatever way you want to label them. He displayed controlling behaviour from a very young age- only a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist could place him from a disorder perspective- but what makes someone play "God"? I don't think we'll ever know, but if there are professional medical people out there who feel they can contribute to such knowledge, then really, i'd love to see what they had to say.

We're terribly uncomfortable with such events as human beings- "Evil" is a word that arises often in this thread. Understandably so. But it does little to answer the question "why?" - "evil" as an answer just isn't enough for the family.

Of course the acts were evil.

But what drives someone to murder of their family? And then kill themselves? We're all searching for answers and the families of those affected deserve that answer the most- I hope they get something that will help them in their time of need, from the authorities, over the coming weeks.

retro:electro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What struck me throughout the week was one aspect of his note, where he said something like "why didn't people see the dark side of me?"

That strikes me as him trying to deflect responsibility for his actions, like it’s everyone else’s fault for not predicting that he was capable of murdering his whole family in the most horrific way possible. Beyond maddening but sadly not surprising that he would say something like that.

JMNolan

JMNolan wrote: »

There wouldn't be tittle-tattle and speculation if there was transparency

We're not the ones who deserve transparency.

When AGS hopefully share their information with the family, that should remain with the family.

It's great to support them, but blatant speculation doesn't help.


Anyway, just in case you've seen a GoFundMe page (or similar) supposedly raising money for the Coll and Connolly families, it's fake.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/family-of-clodagh-hawe-warn-of-fake-fundraising-page-1.3811451

The family of Clodagh Hawe has warned people not to donate to online fundraising pages that have no link to them.

Ms Hawe’s sister, Jacqueline Connolly urged the public not to donate to an online fundraising page and they would not accept money “on the back of our grief”.

“It has come to our attention that someone has set up a gofundme page in our name. Please ignore this as Mam and I would never in a million years accept money from anyone on the back of our grief. We have informed RTÉ and they are having it shut down!” tweeted Jacqueline Connolly.

AudreyHepburn

A horrific case, the details of which I can’t bring myself to read again.

The school have a lot to answer for imo. I would have to question the kind of people they have on their staff that they effectively let him get away with what they caught him doing.

Clodagh and her children might still be alive if the school has dealt with him properly.

AudreyHepburn

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

Would be interested to hear the majority opinion on this then. Would think most people who kill themselves would be pitied as they're "not in their right mind"

Anyone who goes off by themselves and dies a lonely death by their own hand deserves the upmost sympathy imo.

Anyone who takes others with them be it accidentally or on purpose not so much.

I feel for anyone who finds themselves in that dark a place but is it necessary to take others with you?

And if you bring innocent children with you you lose my sympathy completely.

Airyfairy12

I dont understand what him dressing in womens clothes has to do with anything and why its being used as evidence of how sick and twisted he was. Theres thousands of men in Ireland that wear womens clothes who don't go on killing sprees or have a **** in public schools. His fascination with porn and cross dressing shouldn't be used as an indication of something sinister imo, similarly to how depression and mental illness was used in the same way, to sort of explain why he did what he did.
His thinking was incredibly distorted, arrogant and entitled, when he questioned why people didn't see his 'dark side' in the note, id wonder if that's referring the literal dark/evil in him that he had to be aware of himself, he must have known he was different from other people in that he lacked the empathy and consideration that other people seemed to have.
As Clodaghs sister said, he murdered her like he hated her, that shows a frightening lack of compassion that he had to of been aware of.

If there was any ounce of compassion or empathy in him he would have discussed his feelings with his counselor, he would have wanted to stop himself from committing such an evil act and he would have discussed his thoughts of suicide and wanting to hurt other people but he didnt, he was so sure of what he was going to do that he said nothing, he wanted nothing to come between him and his sick plan. How nobody saw that evil in him is perplexing to say the least but that said, people like that are very good at putting on a show.

freshpopcorn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

A horrific case, the details of which I can’t bring myself to read again.

The school have a lot to answer for imo. I would have to question the kind of people they have on their staff that they effectively let him get away with what they caught him doing.

Clodagh and her children might still be alive if the school has dealt with him properly.

Was the incident at the school even reported or was he just caught by somebody?

retro:electro

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Was the incident at the school even reported or was he just caught by somebody?

It’s not clear if it was reported or not.. although he was liaising with the INTO so it would seem he was concerned about something anyway