Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

Muahahaha

retro:electro wrote: »

It’s not clear if it was reported or not.. although he was liaising with the INTO so it would seem he was concerned about something anyway

Thing is if it wasn't reported then why not? And if it was reported then why wasn't he immediately suspended with the Teaching Council, Gardai and Tusla informed as per the law under the Childrens Act? Surely that would be the protocol for any teacher caught masturbating on school grounds?

The schools timeline does not make any sense at all to me. We can be sure he was never suspended because then that in itself would have been all around the rural community yet it wasn't. Everything was hush hush for the entire summer holidays. He only finally did what he did when he realised his indiscretions were finally to be made public, his suicide note said as much.

The school had a duty to deal with this effectively and swiftly but they didn't, they dragged their feet for a full two months. All the while Hawe is going around with his head like a pressurised powder keg thinking of what to do. By the time the school were due to out his secret he already had his plans set in stone. If he had of been suspended and outed immediately at the start of the summer then events would likely be very different.

freshpopcorn

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thing is if it wasn't reported then why not? And if it was reported then why wasn't he immediately suspended with the Teaching Council, Gardai and Tusla informed as per the law under the Childrens Act? Surely that would be the protocol for any teacher caught masturbating on school grounds?

The schools timeline does not make any sense at all to me. We can be sure he was never suspended because then that in itself would have been all around the rural community yet it wasn't. Everything was hush hush for the entire summer holidays. He only finally did what he did when he realised his indiscretions were finally to be made public, his suicide note said as much.

The school had a duty to deal with this effectively and swiftly but they didn't, they dragged their feet for a full two months. All the while Hawe is going around with his head like a pressurised powder keg thinking of what to do. By the time the school were due to out his secret he already had his plans set in stone. If he had of been suspended and outed immediately at the start of the summer then events would likely be very different.

We don't know the date of the incident at the school it could have happened months previously or even a few days before in August.
We also don't know what the incident was. It could have being a minor incident that he blew out of proportion or it could have being something serious.
The incident could have being reported and steps carried out correctly or it may have being a failure on the school or the authorities or both.
It could have being witnessed by a teacher, parent, student, SNA. cleaner, etc. The person may have not reported and he thought they had and that's why he contacted INTO. They may have not reported it for various reasons.

Mrsmum

Tbh I think even outside of his final act, AH was imploding. You know the way an alcoholic or gambler can hide it for so long but eventually they persist in trying to function but can control it no longer and all kinds of negative stuff happens as the control slips. AH was a man whose byword was control for years and years, yet in the last few months we have him admitting to his wife he was watching porn (why do this?), taking the not inconsiderable step of seeing a counsellor, admitting to maybe the counsellor he was wearing women's underwear, masturbating somewhere inappropriate and as a result of that or separately getting into conflict with a colleague and seeing a doctor for stress. Imo if he was still in control his secrets would have been his alone and no one, including his family, would have been any the wiser but I think he was losing it while at the same time struggling to stay what he saw as 'respectable' and caring less and less every day which was why in act of self sabotage, he allowed himself to masturbate where he was caught. I really think he was on a path of destruction phase. Imo, one way or the other he was going to cause a scandal, he knew it and decided to leave the stage. If the fool had only gone alone, he actually would have kept his dignity as hardly anyone would know anything.

Muahahaha

freshpopcorn wrote: »

We don't know the date of the incident at the school it could have happened months previously or even a few days before in August.

Everything points towards him masturbating in the school a lot earlier than just a few days before they were due back. He said in his suicide letter that his councellor "knew everything" yet the last time he visited the councellor was June 21st.

We also don't know what the incident was. It could have being a minor incident that he blew out of proportion or it could have being something serious.
The incident could have being reported and steps carried out correctly or it may have being a failure on the school or the authorities or both.
It could have being witnessed by a teacher, parent, student, SNA. cleaner, etc. The person may have not reported and he thought they had and that's why he contacted INTO. They may have not reported it for various reasons.

We have pointers of what the incident was- he told Clodagh that he was caught masturbating somewhere. They think it was the school which was the reason he was so stressed, had ulcers and was prescribed sleeping tablets on the 21st of June.

As for someone seeing him and not reporting it- that in itself is a criminal offence under the Children First Act. Teachers and anyone else working with children are duty bound by that act to report anything that might be a danger to children. The defence of "I didn't think it was serious" no longer applies. All people who work with children know this as its drummed into them. Its unfathomable that someone working with children and knowing about the laws they are subject to would not report the Vice Principal of a school caught masturbating on school grounds. Not reporting it makes them guilty of a criminal offence, you just wouldn't put your entire career on the line over some wanker.

Airyfairy12

Mrsmum wrote: »

Tbh I think even outside of his final act, AH was imploding. You know the way an alcoholic or gambler can hide it for so long but eventually they persist in trying to function but can control it no longer and all kinds of negative stuff happens as the control slips. AH was a man whose byword was control for years and years, yet in the last few months we have him admitting to his wife he was watching porn (why do this?), taking the not inconsiderable step of seeing a counsellor, admitting to maybe the counsellor he was wearing women's underwear, masturbating somewhere inappropriate and as a result of that or separately getting into conflict with a colleague and seeing a doctor for stress. Imo if he was still in control his secrets would have been his alone and no one, including his family, would have been any the wiser but I think he was losing it while at the same time struggling to stay what he saw as 'respectable' and caring less and less every day which was why in act of self sabotage, he allowed himself to masturbate where he was caught. I really think he was on a path of destruction phase. Imo, one way or the other he was going to cause a scandal, he knew it and decided to leave the stage. If the fool had only gone alone, he actually would have kept his dignity as hardly anyone would know anything.

I can understand him imploding and the self sabotaging but it doesnt explain him murdering his family with hatchets and knives, he would have known without a doubt that would be public news so I really dont think he cared about what anyone else thought or felt. He wasnt thinking of Clodaghs mam or sister or his own family and what they would have to deal with in the aftermath but besides that, addiction doesnt turn people into murderers. Ive got alcoholics in my family, some of them drank themselves to death, sabotaged their entire lives and done some awful things as a result of their addictions but would never dream of killing anyone.

I dont think theres any explaining or rationalizing of what he did.

AudreyHepburn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Was the incident at the school even reported or was he just caught by somebody?

That’s unclear at the moment which in itself begs a question.

Mrsmum

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I can understand him imploding and the self sabotaging but it doesnt explain him murdering his family with hatchets and knives, he would have known without a doubt that would be public news so I really dont think he cared about what anyone else thought or felt. He wasnt thinking of Clodaghs mam or sister or his own family and what they would have to deal with in the aftermath but besides that, addiction doesnt turn people into murderers. Ive got alcoholics in my family, some of them drank themselves to death, sabotaged their entire lives and done some awful things as a result of their addictions but would never dream of killing anyone.

I dont think theres any explaining or rationalizing of what he did.

Ah no, I didn't mean to suggest addiction turns people into murderers. The country would be full of murderers in that case. Just that he was on a slippery slope, as a comparison, like when addiction is spiralling out of control. In the end I don't think he gave a sh1t about anyone.

Btw you said in other post he told Clodagh he was caught masturbating somewhere inappropriate. Did he ?? I thought the only info Clodagh shared about him with her mother was that he was watching porn.

strandroad

Mrsmum wrote: »

yet in the last few months we have him admitting to his wife he was watching porn (why do this?), taking the not inconsiderable step of seeing a counsellor

Quite possibly when he admitted to porn it was already the school laptop porn and getting caught he was obliquely referring to? He was only seeing the counselor until June, and he apparently worked with them on whatever it was that was going to come out already.

The way the timeline reads to me is that he was caught in school in March. He admitted to porn to his wife then, possibly to cover up any upset or agitation she may have observed. No formal steps were taken at the time other than possibly telling him to go to counselling which he did. Something happened again in June, perhaps he learned that there will be consequences after all, possibly no return to school for him in the new year? All comes crumbling down, he cancels his counselling and starts his plans to remove himself and the entire family.

Mrsmum

strandroad wrote: »

Quite possibly when he admitted to porn it was already the school laptop porn and getting caught he was obliquely referring to? He was only seeing the counselor until June, and he apparently worked with them on whatever it was that was going to come out already.

The way the timeline reads to me is that he was caught in school in March. He admitted to porn to his wife then, possibly to cover up any upset or agitation she may have observed. No formal steps were taken at the time other than possibly telling him to go to counselling which he did. Something happened again in June, perhaps he learned that there will be consequences after all, possibly no return to school for him in the new year? All comes crumbling down, he cancels his counselling and starts his plans to remove himself and the entire family.

Ok, that makes sense.

freshpopcorn

Muahahaha wrote: »

Everything points towards him masturbating in the school a lot earlier than just a few days before they were due back. He said in his suicide letter that his councellor "knew everything" yet the last time he visited the councellor was June 21st.



We have pointers of what the incident was- he told Clodagh that he was caught masturbating somewhere. They think it was the school which was the reason he was so stressed, had ulcers and was prescribed sleeping tablets on the 21st of June.

As for someone seeing him and not reporting it- that in itself is a criminal offence under the Children First Act. Teachers and anyone else working with children are duty bound by that act to report anything that might be a danger to children. The defence of "I didn't think it was serious" no longer applies. All people who work with children know this as its drummed into them. Its unfathomable that someone working with children and knowing about the laws they are subject to would not report the Vice Principal of a school caught masturbating on school grounds. Not reporting it makes them guilty of a criminal offence, you just wouldn't put your entire career on the line over some wanker.

Yes I know about the Children's first act. ( I have said this already) However strange things happen and people do silly things.
However whatever he did could have being seen by a parent/student/cleaner/etc.
The person could have being highly manipulated by him.
I just find it so strange that any teacher/SNA would keep their mouth closed about this and not report it straight away. I couldn't see them giving him a date of when they were going to report it. It would be done right away.
Wouldn't TUSLA/etc have being out at the school if it was so serious.
There's just something there and I can't put my finger on it.

Airyfairy12

Mrsmum wrote: »

Btw you said in other post he told Clodagh he was caught masturbating somewhere inappropriate. Did he ?? I thought the only info Clodagh shared about him with her mother was that he was watching porn.

I didnt say this?

Mrsmum

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I didnt say this?

So sorry, It wasn't you.

strandroad

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes I know about the Children's first act. ( I have said this already) However strange things happen and people do silly things.
However whatever he did could have being seen by a parent/student/cleaner/etc.
The person could have being highly manipulated by him.
I just find it so strange that any teacher/SNA would keep their mouth closed about this and not report it straight away. I couldn't see them giving him a date of when they were going to report it. It would be done right away.
Wouldn't TUSLA/etc have being out at the school if it was so serious.
There's just something there and I can't put my finger on it.

If he was indeed caught in March perhaps it was reported then but the board took their time investigating. Porn is not illegal as such so other than child abuse materials, what kind of consequences would watching some vanilla porn bring on a teacher? Perhaps it wasn't clear, he may have had allies on the board, perhaps unions became involved and it took months to achieve any outcome. Obviously inconvenient to admit it now.

freshpopcorn

strandroad wrote: »

If he was indeed caught in March perhaps it was reported then but the board took their time investigating. Porn is not illegal as such so other than child abuse materials, what kind of consequences would watching some vanilla porn bring on a teacher? Perhaps it wasn't clear, he may have had allies on the board, perhaps unions became involved and it took months to achieve any outcome. Obviously inconvenient to admit it now.

Well if we were to believe the rumours. It was worse than just watching a little bit of porn.
So, I don't understand why he wasn't suspended.
I just wonder will they ever find out what happened and is somebody sitting on a secret.

Muahahaha

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes I know about the Children's first act. ( I have said this already) However strange things happen and people do silly things.
However whatever he did could have being seen by a parent/student/cleaner/etc.
The person could have being highly manipulated by him.
I just find it so strange that any teacher/SNA would keep their mouth closed about this and not report it straight away. I couldn't see them giving him a date of when they were going to report it. It would be done right away.
Wouldn't TUSLA/etc have being out at the school if it was so serious.
There's just something there and I can't put my finger on it.

Neither can I. The Childrens First Act is clear- if you work with children and see anything that could endanger children then you report it immediately. Not reporting it is an offence so if you don't report it immediately then you leave yourself open to criminal conviction.

IMO it is most likely that it was reported immediatelty by whoever witnessed him masturbating. By that I mean reported to the school Principal be it by another teacher, a cleaner or otherwise. Under the Children First Act the school Principal (as a "mandated person" under the Act) is then legally bound to report it to Tusla and to the Gardai. There has been no evidence that this happened.

Instead what appears the most likely is there was a kind of institutional inertia within the school and between the Principal and the Board of Management. Their preference was to deal with it 'behind closed doors' hence he wasn't reported to the Gardai and Tusla, hence they all broke the law as proscribed in the Children First Act. No wonder they are remaining schtum to Clodagh, if they tell her the timeline of him being caught in June but nothing done about it then they are liable to incriminate themselves in breaking the law.

strandroad

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Well if we were to believe the rumours. It was worse than just watching a little bit of porn.
So, I don't understand why he wasn't suspended.
I just wonder will they ever find out what happened and is somebody sitting on a secret.

Right there was masturbation. But it's not illegal either. It doesn't sound as if he molested someone or watched child abuse.

I wonder if there was indeed a lengthy investigation happening due to relatively benign nature of the deed? If it was a corporate employee, a **** & porn adventure would probably earn them a warning and some humiliation; is it different enough for teachers to warrant someone being locked out of the classroom overnight
or sacked ? I don't know.

freshpopcorn

strandroad wrote: »

Right there was masturbation. But it's not illegal either. It doesn't sound as if he molested someone or watched child abuse.

I wonder if there was indeed a lengthy investigation happening due to relatively benign nature of the deed? If it was a corporate employee, a **** & porn adventure would probably earn them a warning and some humiliation; is it different enough for teachers to warrant someone being locked out of the classroom overnight
or sacked ? I don't know.

Masturbation and pornography is highly inappropriate on school grounds at any time of the day.
Kids can wonder into the school at any time of the afternoon to get a book/after an activity in the afternoon/etc.

iamwhoiam

strandroad wrote: »

Right there was masturbation. But it's not illegal either. It doesn't sound as if he molested someone or watched child abuse.

I wonder if there was indeed a lengthy investigation happening due to relatively benign nature of the deed? If it was a corporate employee, a **** & porn adventure would probably earn them a warning and some humiliation; is it different enough for teachers to warrant someone being locked out of the classroom overnight
or sacked ? I don't know.

Of course it's different for a teacher . He was in a position of trust in a school full of kids

donkeykong5

Why are posters so intrigued with his wearing his wife's underwear. And masturbating in school property. And watching porn in schools premises. Hes a filthy murdering bastard and I hope he rots in hell.

Muahahaha

strandroad wrote: »

Right there was masturbation. But it's not illegal either. It doesn't sound as if he molested someone or watched child abuse.

I wonder if there was indeed a lengthy investigation happening due to relatively benign nature of the deed? If it was a corporate employee, a **** & porn adventure would probably earn them a warning and some humiliation; is it different enough for teachers to warrant someone being locked out of the classroom overnight
or sacked ? I don't know.

Yes it is. So long as you view a Vice Principal who is masturbating on school grounds as a danger to children then he should have been suspended with pay pending the outcome of an investigation.

And that investigation can only be carried out by Tusla and the Gardai. The whole purpose of the Children First Act was to prevent instituitions investigating themselves when it comes to matters that could endanger children. We all remember the episode of Cardinal Brady swearing two children who were abused by a priest to secrecy. The Children First Act was brought into legislation precisely to prevent the likes of Cardinals conducting behind closed doors investigations than only serve to cover it up and to protect the institution at all costs. The very ethos of the Children First Act is to give only Tusla and the Gardai (as independent bodies) the only powers to investigate these matters in relation to children. A Vice Principal masturbating on school property is way beyind the remit of the Principal and the Board of Management to investigate. This is why a public enquiry is now needed, there are serious questions to be answered by the school and its management to as what they were doing not reporting it and letting it fester for months while Hawe planned the murder of his family.

tabby aspreme

strandroad wrote: »

Right there was masturbation. But it's not illegal either. It doesn't sound as if he molested someone or watched child abuse.

I wonder if there was indeed a lengthy investigation happening due to relatively benign nature of the deed? If it was a corporate employee, a **** & porn adventure would probably earn them a warning and some humiliation; is it different enough for teachers to warrant someone being locked out of the classroom overnight
or sacked ? I don't know.

Would masturbation be considered to be indecent exposure, if a teacher was caught having a tug at the school gate, should they be allowed to continue to work in the school

freshpopcorn

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Why are posters so intrigued with his wearing his wife's underwear. And masturbating in school property. And watching porn in schools premises. Hes a filthy murdering bastard and I hope he rots in hell.

Well to me it's important to know the chain of events in the lead up to that night.
So if there was something serious happening in the school we can see how it reported/dealt with. It will allow us to review how these incidents are dealt with.

tretorn

strandroad wrote: »

Right there was masturbation. But it's not illegal either. It doesn't sound as if he molested someone or watched child abuse.

I wonder if there was indeed a lengthy investigation happening due to relatively benign nature of the deed? If it was a corporate employee, a **** & porn adventure would probably earn them a warning and some humiliation; is it different enough for teachers to warrant someone being locked out of the classroom overnight
or sacked ? I don't know.

For goodness sake, he was working in a primary school and seemingly masturbating to porn more than likely in a classroom with children present.

There is no way in hell parents would accept an adult male like that around their children either in a classroom or a sports club. Parents would refuse to allow him to teach their children so there would be no role for him in the school even if he was allowed back.

No one would let their child near his house so his children would have to be told why friends wouldn’t call, he would have been known as a sexual deviant and probably charged with indecent behaviour and could never work as a teacher again. He couldn’t see anyway out of the mess he created so he cold bloodedly annilated his family.

Spanish Eyes

Wonder who the Principal is, if Hawe was second in command, ie vice principal.

freshpopcorn

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Wonder who the Principal is, if Hawe was second in command, ie vice principal.

Her name is on the website or others!

Spanish Eyes

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Her name is on the website or others!

Thanks. I don’t even know the name of the school!

Interesting that it’s a female since I’ve heard that most principals in primary schools are male.

tretorn

The idea of anyone masturbating to porn anywhere in public is horrible.

If someone did it say on public transport you would report them.

You would like to think that our primary schools would be able to weed out any staff so addicted to porn that they couldn’t contain themselves for a few hours, Jesus, how could he teach anything with his mind fixated on porn.

Poor Clodagh, she suspected nothing and there would have been people passing her in that town knowing what she was living with. I hope the family get their hands on the Garda files ASAP

Muahahaha

tretorn wrote: »

For goodness sake, he was working in a primary school and seemingly masturbating to porn more than likely in a classroom with children present.

tretorn I dont think there is anything to suggest that he was masturbating in front of school children. Others have suggessted he might have been looking at chiild porn in the school, again there is nothing to point towards this.

Theories on cross dressing or child porn are not helpful because at the end of the day all that matters is that a Vice Principal was caught on school grounds masturbating and that Tusla and the Gardai were not informed, as they should have been under the law.

Instead it seems that the members of the school management saw fit to ignore the law and try to deal with his masturbation incident internally and behind closed doors over the course of the summer of 2016. IMO the Board of Management and the Principal have questions to answer here about the timeline of events because as things stand they look either incompetent or complicit in their actions. Were they afraid to report this so-called 'pillar of the community' and thus blinded in their decision making? The eight week gap in the timeline definitely suggests that to me. We need a public enquiry to find out, this matter is so horrific that no stone should be left unturned.

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, but if Hawe was caught watching porn in school, and the school's authorities failed to take prompt action, that's probably negligence, but totally separate to the killing of Clodagh Hawe and her sons.

As far as we know, nobody in that school could possibly have foreseen the drastic and ridiculous actions that Alan Hawe subsequently took.

Theres no logical line of causation to draw there. The school definitely need to answer some questions about child protection, but they have nothing to answer for in terms of Hawe's own actions.

JP Liz V1

freshpopcorn wrote: »

They are going to meet the Garda commissioner next week.

https://m.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/were-confident-well-get-access-to-files-family-of-murdered-clodagh-hawe-to-meet-with-garda-commissioner-37865902.html?fbclid=IwAR1dzcSUox10-gt5-MS2ikKmE8RD1aB9lvVcyiqSkZvmbr94sxZcAJG2v_g

I do hope they get answers

iamwhoiam

Could it be that he was suspended at the end of June and told no one ? Is it possible he knew all summer that he wasn't going back and that Clodagh would then know
The timing of his cruel acts point to him knowing that the next day he was heading for his downfall ?

freshpopcorn

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Could it be that he was suspended at the end of June and told no one ? Is it possible he knew all summer that he wasn't going back and that Clodagh would then know
The timing of his cruel acts point to him knowing that the next day he was heading for his downfall ?

Unsure about this.
However since the area is small youd expect there to be alot of talk if a teacher was suspended.
If he was suspended in June. Wouldn't another staff member be taking over his role/duties. They'd have a good bit to do over the Summer.
If he was suspended had the school advertised any temporary posts/etc.

iamwhoiam

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Unsure about this.
However since the area is small youd expect there to be alot of talk if a teacher was suspended.
If he was suspended in June. Wouldn't another staff member be taking over his role/duties. They'd have a good bit to do over the Summer.
If he was suspended had the school advertised any temporary posts/etc.

Yes thats true I suppose , I wonder was Hawe in school over the summer and in the last week of the holidays ?

goat2

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

The porn addiction was clearly a central issue.

Why was he seeking counselling fro it?

I guess addiction, or depression

goat2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, but if Hawe was caught watching porn in school, and the school's authorities failed to take prompt action, that's probably negligence, but totally separate to the killing of Clodagh Hawe and her sons.

As far as we know, nobody in that school could possibly have foreseen the drastic and ridiculous actions that Alan Hawe subsequently took.

Theres no logical line of causation to draw there. The school definitely need to answer some questions about child protection, but they have nothing to answer for in terms of Hawe's own actions.

I am sure the education board had a legal person, and had to go on the advice of their legal person,

tretorn

Muahahaha wrote: »

tretorn I dont think there is anything to suggest that he was masturbating in front of school children. Others have suggessted he might have been looking at chiild porn in the school, again there is nothing to point towards this.

Theories on cross dressing or child porn are not helpful because at the end of the day all that matters is that a Vice Principal was caught on school grounds masturbating and that Tusla and the Gardai were not informed, as they should have been under the law.

Instead it seems that the members of the school management saw fit to ignore the law and try to deal with his masturbation incident internally and behind closed doors over the course of the summer of 2016. IMO the Board of Management and the Principal have questions to answer here about the timeline of events because as things stand they look either incompetent or complicit in their actions. Were they afraid to report this so-called 'pillar of the community' and thus blinded in their decision making? The eight week gap in the timeline definitely suggests that to me. We need a public enquiry to find out, this matter is so horrific that no stone should be left unturned.

We don’t know where he was masturbating but he quite possibly could have been the only adult in the classroom so it’s possible it was happening there. The school authorities know the details and it appears they weren’t available at the inquest. The inquest conclusions might have been different if the facts were known.
Give the family the information, it’s the right thing to do. They shouldn’t have to go on TV to get the support of the public, if they had known what Hawe was at they might have persuaded Clodagh to leave, they were left in the dark too.

Spanish Eyes

I know I am speculating, but the most dangerous part of leaving a controlling/abusive relationship is actually deciding to leave it.

Once the controller gets wind of this it is all over. Control is gone. So the end game approaches. If you don't believe me, read up on it.

Anyway, there is no evidence that Clodagh had any intention of leaving, but no one knows do they?

The fact that he perpetrated this despicable act the day before the schools re-opened is a very telling clue IMO regarding his employment situation though.

I would be livid if any of my children were attending that school with him performing these acts on school grounds. Jesus.

I often wonder how or why the community is not up in arms about it, given that their children could have been exposed to this. But we are talking about rural Ireland here, close ranks, bury him with his victims, have an anniversary mass etc. and so on.

And no one said NO.

Just saying.

freshpopcorn

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I know I am speculating, but the most dangerous part of leaving a controlling/abusive relationship is actually deciding to leave it.

Once the controller gets wind of this it is all over. Control is gone. So the end game approaches. If you don't believe me, read up on it.

Anyway, there is no evidence that Clodagh had any intention of leaving, but no one knows do they?

The fact that he perpetrated this despicable act the day before the schools re-opened is a very telling clue IMO regarding his employment situation though.

I would be livid if any of my children were attending that school with him performing these acts on school grounds. Jesus.

I often wonder how or why the community is not up in arms about it, given that their children could have been exposed to this. But we are talking about rural Ireland here, close ranks, bury him with his victims, have an anniversary mass etc. and so on.

And no one said NO.

Just saying.

It's hard to know to be honest.
They say Clodagh was researching holidays that night and that would have being unusual for somebody trying to get out of a relationship but then again I don't know.
Regarding the school,etc. We know very little about it. Maybe parents are up in arms about it with letters to the school, department of education,etc but maybe they didn't want media attention for various reasons.
Regarding the funeral. At the time the sister shared a link online that kind of stood up for Alan. It was a link that said he had mental health issues and she wrote above it eventually the truth at last. So they kind of looked like they were on board with it.
Then there's the anniversary mass. I honestly think somebody had to have organised it for him. I have never heard of a priest randomly saying a mass for somebody without it being organised by the family. This could have also happened in a city. A priest can't really say no to having a mass from my understanding.

Spanish Eyes

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's hard to know to be honest.
They say Clodagh was researching holidays that night and that would have being unusual for somebody trying to get out of a relationship but then again I don't know.
Regarding the school,etc. We know very little about it. Maybe parents are up in arms about it with letters to the school, department of education,etc but maybe they didn't want media attention for various reasons.
Regarding the funeral. At the time the sister shared a link online that kind of stood up for Alan. It was a link that said he had mental health issues and she wrote above it eventually the truth at last. So they kind of looked like they were on board with it.
Then there's the anniversary mass. I honestly think somebody had to have organised it for him. I have never heard of a priest randomly saying a mass for somebody without it being organised by the family. This could have also happened in a city. A priest can't really say no to having a mass from my understanding.

Thanks. Just hoping that there was no fear involved in the atrocity, meaning it was unexpected and hopefully quick, but it must have been horrific. I did not watch the RTE prog. I just could not do it. That woman and those lovely kids. Cannot get it out of my mind.

Imagine how awful it is for the relatives? How could you recover from that. It is not about me. I am just posting some things....

Bobtheman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The fact that there may be quite a few people out there that have the answers that this family so deserve and are entitled to imo is sickening. Its like they are supporting a dead murderer and letting the family suffer on unnecessarily without the last few bits of the puzzle is just wrong,someone needs to tell them the full story.

The problem would be if They came forward they might feel to blame for what happened

freshpopcorn

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thanks. Just hoping that there was no fear involved in the atrocity, meaning it was unexpected and hopefully quick, but it must have been horrific. I did not watch the RTE prog. I just could not do it. That woman and those lovely kids. Cannot get it out of my mind.

Imagine how awful it is for the relatives? How could you recover from that. It is not about me. I am just posting some things....

Yes it must be terrible for the relatives.
In some of my posts I may have sounded like I was defending him. I wasn't.
I was just trying to answer some of your questions/comments.

Spanish Eyes

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Yes it must be terrible for the relatives.
In some of my posts I may have sounded like I was defending him. I wasn't.
I was just trying to answer some of your questions/comments.

I know, and appreciate it.

It is still beyond belief though. There possibly will be more to come out in time.

Stacksofwacks

What gets lost in this is the collective narcissism that exists in Irish society and in particular rural communities regarding these so called pillars of society. I've seen it in my own life when you are often told by even close family members how you should aspire to be like Mr x or Miss Y. Some of them could be horrendous people but are looked up to regardless because of their status or their connections etc. That Hawe was about to lose this status hence he knew the shame that would come with this downfall. Of course he is 100% responsible for his actions but I think we need to change out thinking towards certain kinds of people and stop putting them up on pedastals etc.. If he had been a plumber at the school would this matter have been handled differently?

freshpopcorn

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

What gets lost in this is the collective narcissism that exists in Irish society and in particular rural communities regarding these so called pillars of society. I've seen it in my own life when you are often told by even close family members how you should aspire to be like Mr x or Miss Y. Some of them could be horrendous people but are looked up to regardless because of their status or their connections etc. That Hawe was about to lose this status hence he knew the shame that would come with this downfall. Of course he is 100% responsible for his actions but I think we need to change out thinking towards certain kinds of people and stop putting them up on pedastals etc.. If he had been a plumber at the school would this matter have been handled differently?

I think no matter where you live people look up to certain people. It may be a Doctor, principal, Guard, successful business owner, etc. Especially if you like them. I know people in the above professions and they are looked up to but equally some aren't looked up to if they do bad things or threat people bad.
If people knew the plumber and he was a nice guy and involved in the area some would look up to him. If was just the plumber who didn't people probably wouldn't or have much contact/known him.. It would be fairly similar with other professions.

tretorn

The GAA is the be all and the end all in these small towns. You are either in the GAA or you are a nobody, there is precious little else going on so you have the GAA, the local priest and then the acting vice principal who is the only male in the school and very friendly with the local priest and also has got himself into an important role in the GAA club, that of club treasurer, this is an officer role on any committee and the GAA being an important organisation this would give this person kudos in the town.

He would have been full of his own importance and he had full control at home, his in laws never got a chance to see their mother and sister on their own, himself would sit there thinking everyone wanted to listen to him wen the reality was the relatives would be hoping his car wasnt there when they called.

freshpopcorn

tretorn wrote: »

The GAA is the be all and the end all in these small towns. You are either in the GAA or you are a nobody, there is precious little else going on so you have the GAA, the local priest and then the acting vice principal who is the only male in the school and very friendly with the local priest and also has got himself into an important role in the GAA club, that of club treasurer, this is an officer role on any committee and the GAA being an important organisation this would give this person kudos in the town.

He would have been full of his own importance and he had full control at home, his in laws never got a chance to see their mother and sister on their own, himself would sit there thinking everyone wanted to listen to him wen the reality was the relatives would be hoping his car wasnt there when they called.

I have to say all this thing about being in the GAA or a nobody is dying out in most towns now in y experience. Almost every town now had a soccer,rugby, boxing,athlethicx, other groups and they are all seen as important. I have also seen local GAA people being hated and people wi do anything to get them off the committee.
Now from what I remember Alan Hawe was involved in the setting up on the GAA club in this area.. So he would have being highly involved.

tretorn

tretorn wrote: »

The GAA is the be all and the end all in these small towns. You are either in the GAA or you are a nobody

That's not quite fair. I'm not familiar with Castlerahan or the surrounding area, but I come from a small village where the GAA is a major talking point, and I don't think anyone who doesn't participate is excluded.

It's probably more of an issue for school students. I wasn't a great hurler, and definitely felt a bit sore about that during my teens. But I'm surprised to hear anyone suggest this is an issue among adults in rural Ireland. That certainly isn't my experience.

Spanish Eyes

I think the GAA has taken over from the Catholic Church these days.

Anyway, the GAA is great don't get me wrong, but I often wonder where the next scandal will be.

Why do people say this about the deceased's participation in the GAA anyway? So feckin what, it is not compulsory.

But maybe if you don't participate or volunteer, or whatever, you are excluded. I dunno, but I reckon so.

freshpopcorn

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think the GAA has taken over from the Catholic Church these days.

Anyway, the GAA is great don't get me wrong, but I often wonder where the next scandal will be.

Why do people say this about the deceased's participation in the GAA anyway? So feckin what, it is not compulsory.

But maybe if you don't participate or volunteer, or whatever, you are excluded. I dunno, but I reckon so.

I have never felt excluded in rural Ireland for not being part of the GAA.
Are you talking in general or in Alan Hawes case. If somebody is involved in a club they generally talk about it when your dead.
For example if he set up the local drama society they'd be talking about that.
Criminal examples would be Joe o Reilly was big into the GYM.
Graham Dwyer was into his toy planes and his cars.

Stacksofwacks

I live in a rural community and Im not involved in the GAA. To be honest I feel a bit of resentment from the local GAA heads that I never "togged out" little snide remarks and been excluded from certain things parties stag do's etc.. Maybe they just dont like me, I was a pretty good hurler when I was younger but never continued it on and i sense a bit of bitterness..But anyway it dosent really bother me but this kind of stuff does exist