Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

seamus

The school issue does smell like a cover up tbh.

As I say there is nothing stopping the school from issuing a statement about the incident with names redacted. Dead people have no right to privacy.

The most reasonable conclusion is that if the school were to do so, it would have questions to answer about its own processes, and failures of same.

SoundsRight

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Backwards and arrogant indeed, though it is worth noting that small town rural Ireland can be a backwards place, and teaching in Church-owned schools can be a very conservative environment.

Maybe in the woke schools of Dublin the male teacher's can walk about in women's clothes and masturbate at their desk to their heart's content, but in the rest of the country this behaviour would be seen as disturbing. He must have felt his world was falling apart around him.

SoundsRight

SoundsRight wrote: »

Maybe in the woke schools of Dublin the male teacher's can walk about in women's clothes and masturbate at their desk to their heart's content, but in the rest of the country this behaviour would be seen as disturbing..

ah leave it out, you just couldn't resist, could you?

It's clear the poster was referring to a small Conservative community where such activities would go through the community like wildfire and make participation in the community impossible.

There would obviously be more opportunity to get on with life in an urban setting where social life doesn't revolve around Church and GAA.

Wombatman

I found these bits interesting.

It's not an established fact that he was caught masturbating in school. Maybe he was caught with porn on the school laptop and was facing disciplinary proceedings over that.

In any case he admits to being suicidal for some time.

I wonder if the counselling notes can be obtained or are they covered by doctor-patient confidentiality.

“I have wanted to kill myself for a long time now and I could not bear the thought of leaving my mess and the anger and rejection Clodagh and the boys would have to live with forever.”

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3804100/alan-hawe-enjoyed-killing-family-note-clodagh-murder-suicide/

“But (Hawe) has said in his own words that he was caught red-handed and we do know that he was looking at pornography on the school laptop and he never brought the school laptop home.

“He had said he was masturbating somewhere that he shouldn’t have been, possibly at the school. So we have pieces of information. We don’t know why he was ringing the Irish National Teachers’ Organisation. We don’t know where it happened or when."

“We know, in the June, he cancelled all his counselling sessions and this all happened the day before he was to return to school so it was avoidance of the consequences he was about to face.”

Lollipops23

SoundsRight wrote: »

Maybe in the woke schools of Dublin the male teacher's can walk about in women's clothes and masturbate at their desk to their heart's content, but in the rest of the country this behaviour would be seen as disturbing. He must have felt his world was falling apart around him.

FFS, porn addiction and cross dressing (in private) are a lot more common than once thought.

If it had all come out, I'm sure it would have been mortifying until the next scandal came out. Certainly not something his wife and kids would "never" recover from.

Either AH grossly overreacted to possible embarrassment down the line (with his fragile ego) or something much, much worse was about to come out.

My money's on the former tbh, he sounds like the most arrogant, untouchable scumbag.

tretorn

Its not the porn addiction that is the question, its the allegation that he masturbated while watching porn on the school premises.

Now, I dont know about you lollipops and your tolerance but I most certainly wouldnt want my children alone in a classroom for hours everyday with someone whose addiction to porn was so strong he couldnt even contain himself from 9 Am to 2 PM. I think most parents would want a teacher like that to be sacked.

Beechwoodspark

The cross dressing. Was that part of what happened in the school also? All part of the same incident?

I’d like to know why the school havnt been more forthcoming in private with the 4 victims family.

I would hate to think that people on the board of management in the school would be covering up something for some unknown reason.

TCM

Beechwoodspark wrote:

The cross dressing. Was that part of what happened in the school also? All part of the same incident?

tretorn wrote:

I doubt if he was caught watching porn and masturbating in school that nothing would have been done at that point. If the parents found that out there would have been hell to play. He seriously couldnt have carried on teaching until the end of June in those circumstances.

Very true. I wonder had he been to the school during the summer break and been caught then?

Beechwoodspark

TCM wrote: »

Very true. I wonder had he been to the school during the summer break and been caught then?

Or possibly a blind eye was turned to his behaviour for some reason, child protection protocols were ignored, and the school don’t want this to be revealed now?

NIMAN

Look, we are all just speculating and guessing at this stage.

Its going round in circles.

TCM

hawley wrote:

I would presume that he was suspended from school. That's probably why he carried out the murders on that night; he had no job to go to in the morning and couldn't deal with the shame.

Yes that could be possible. Could this scenario (suspension) have played out during the summer and without his wife knowing about it?

I see now they've gone public the minister of the day is "meeting them" on Friday. It's like as soon as the Cervical smear mess got out into the public domain and the shortcomings were revealed, the first thing they do is roll Michael D down to Emma Mhic mhathuna, how disingenuous can they get the scumbags.

It shouldn't take Claire byrne to get this poor family exactly what they need.
This is you...and this is us on national TV showing we really care!!! now smile everyone.:rolleyes:

freshpopcorn

TCM wrote: »

Very true. I wonder had he been to the school during the summer break and been caught then?

A lot of vice principals would be in the school in the first week of July for certain and maybe the during the Summer in my experience.
He lived near enough to the school also. Often this staff member living locally would be in charge of taking in post/etc(Before an post might redirect the school mail to a teacher/principals house they stopped this tough).

TCM

valoren wrote:

Now there's nothing wrong with that at all, needs must. It must have been understandably embarrassing for him. I didn't even know his name, this being an office of 400 people, he was on a different team. What was interesting was how rapidly this spread around the office. Clearly the person who caught him told other people, who told other people and this spread around the office i.e. "Did ya hear about the fella on the third floor who got caught having a **** in the jacks?"

valoren wrote:

I work in an office building. Last November word went around about how someone was caught having a **** in one of the disabled toilets. The disabled toilet allows for some private time but this guy forgot to lock the door and someone barged in catching him in flagrante delicto

valoren wrote:

I work in an office building. Last November word went around about how someone was caught having a **** in one of the disabled toilets. The disabled toilet allows for some private time but this guy forgot to lock the door and someone barged in catching him in flagrante delicto

valoren wrote:

Now there's nothing wrong with that at all, needs must. It must have been understandably embarrassing for him. I didn't even know his name, this being an office of 400 people, he was on a different team. What was interesting was how rapidly this spread around the office. Clearly the person who caught him told other people, who told other people and this spread around the office i.e. "Did ya hear about the fella on the third floor who got caught having a **** in the jacks?"

valoren wrote:

I work in an office building. Last November word went around about how someone was caught having a **** in one of the disabled toilets. The disabled toilet allows for some private time but this guy forgot to lock the door and someone barged in catching him in flagrante delicto

valoren wrote:

Now there's nothing wrong with that at all, needs must. It must have been understandably embarrassing for him. I didn't even know his name, this being an office of 400 people, he was on a different team. What was interesting was how rapidly this spread around the office. Clearly the person who caught him told other people, who told other people and this spread around the office i.e. "Did ya hear about the fella on the third floor who got caught having a **** in the jacks?"

Are you for real saying that going into a work toilet and masturbating is ok? Get a grip.

NIMAN

TCM wrote: »

Are you for real saying that going into a work toilet and masturbating is ok? Get a grip.

I'd say its more common than you think it is

(and no, never done it:cool:)

Franz Von Peppercorn

Lollipops23 wrote: »

FFS, porn addiction and cross dressing (in private) are a lot more common than once thought.

If it had all come out, I'm sure it would have been mortifying until the next scandal came out. Certainly not something his wife and kids would "never" recover from.

In a small community? Also public mastrubation is a whole different ball game.

Either AH grossly overreacted to possible embarrassment down the line (with his fragile ego) or something much, much worse was about to come out.

My money's on the former tbh, he sounds like the most arrogant, untouchable scumbag.

I think you’re right.

tretorn

Also if he was caught masturbating to porn in the school Tusla would or should have been notified because he was the father of a six year old. This may have meant him being asked to leave the family home while investigations took place and maybe Clodagh might have thought enough.

His whole artificial life would have come down around his ears so he wasnt hanging around for that.

nice_guy80

tretorn wrote: »

Also if he was caught masturbating to porn in the school Tusla would or should have been notified because he was the father of a six year old. This may have meant him being asked to leave the family home while investigations took place and maybe Clodagh might have thought enough.

His whole artificial life would have come down around his ears so he wasnt hanging around for that.

Teaching Council would then have got involved
That is where professional misconduct would have been brought

Mrsmum

Another things that strikes me, is that as a teacher, he more than most random people in a community, would be privy to the behind closed doors secrets of lots of his pupils homes and situations over his teaching career. You would think he should have enough experience of life to know that troubles come and go, situations change but life always goes on. Such a shame he took that from Clodagh and the boys.

mattser

NIMAN wrote: »

Look, we are all just speculating and guessing at this stage.

Its going round in circles.

That's what happens with every thread in this slurry tank called AH.

freshpopcorn

Mrsmum wrote: »

Another things that strikes me, is that as a teacher, he more than most random people in a community, would be privy to the behind closed doors secrets of lots of his pupils homes and situations over his teaching career. You would think he should have enough experience of life to know that troubles come and go, situations change but life always goes on. Such a shame he took that from Clodagh and the boys.

Yes, that's true.
One thing I find is teachers can try and live in this perfect bubble and push it onto there family to.
I know a good few teachers.For example If a teacher makes a simple comment in parent teacher meeting. It's amazing the stuff they can have thrown in there face about there own family from a parent.

tipptom

Think the school has serious answers to give to parents about the timeline here.

What type of porn was this person accessing on a school computer and why was he still teaching from March up to the summer holidays and why was he going back after the holidays?

freshpopcorn

tipptom wrote: »

Think the school has serious answers to give to parents about the timeline here.

What type of porn was this person accessing on a school computer and why was he still teaching from March up to the summer holidays and why was he going back after the holidays?

Is there confirmation he was viewing porn on the school computer in March and that the school knew about it?

tretorn

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Teaching Council would then have got involved
That is where professional misconduct would have been brought

And that is when calls would be put into the INTO and the Colls know he rang the INTO.

Rubberchikken

i cant see how tusla should be involved because a man who also happens to be a father and a teacher is maybe caught masturbating.
if that was the case Tusla staff would hardly get a chance for a coffee break.

yes i agree its unacceptable behaviour at work but this man seems ti have had a seriously over inflated opinion of himself and his place in the community.

freshpopcorn

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i cant see how tusla should be involved because a man who also happens to be a father and a teacher is maybe caught masturbating.
if that was the case Tusla staff would hardly get a chance for a coffee break.

yes i agree its unacceptable behaviour at work but this man seems ti have had a seriously over inflated opinion of himself and his place in the community.

It would depend on the conditio the incident.
I know now that teachers have to get in contact with them a lot more compared to before and if they don't they'll get in trouble.
If they were contacted social workers would have being involved.
As far as I know with one of the cases a few years ago. It was said early on that social services were in contact with the family.

Nekarsulm

tretorn wrote: »

Its not the porn addiction that is the question, its the allegation that he masturbated while watching porn on the school premises.

Now, I dont know about you lollipops and your tolerance but I most certainly wouldnt want my children alone in a classroom for hours everyday with someone whose addiction to porn was so strong he couldnt even contain himself from 9 Am to 2 PM. I think most parents would want a teacher like that to be sacked.

Don't be so sure.
I know of a fellow ( member of staff) caught masturbating in the library room of Dail Eireann, viewing porn on one of the computers.

Due to complaints from some of the female staff, the matter was quickly dealt with.
.............He got his own office .............

tretorn

Rubberchikken wrote: »

i cant see how tusla should be involved because a man who also happens to be a father and a teacher is maybe caught masturbating.
if that was the case Tusla staff would hardly get a chance for a coffee break.

yes i agree its unacceptable behaviour at work but this man seems ti have had a seriously over inflated opinion of himself and his place in the community.

He allegedly was caught masturbating to porn in a primary school. This raises questions about his suitability for the teaching profession and would raise questions about his behaviour in front of his six year old at home. This is where Tusla would come in. And yes, Tusla do respond to concerns and pretty quickly, I know to families who were visited after childcare staff reported bruising, Tusla staff were at the door within twenty four hours and the bruises were from accidents.

I would consider this unacceptable behaviour if he was teaching my children, for Gods sake, how would anyone thing this behaviour wouldnt raise red flags.

I dont think its comparable at all to adults in a workplace witnessing someone masturbating themselves but its unacceptable in any office or public place.

Its about the innocence of children and their right not to have an adult their parent trusts behaving inappropriately.

Beechwoodspark

tipptom wrote: »

Think the school has serious answers to give to parents about the timeline here.

What type of porn was this person accessing on a school computer and why was he still teaching from March up to the summer holidays and why was he going back after the holidays?

Does father Felim Kelly have any involvement in this I wonder?

Rubberchikken

i agree the workplace is no place for this behaviour and a school, prehaps with kids around, is even worse.
does a school not have unsuitable sites blocked on their wifi?

as he's dead, why can't her family be given access to the information their want? defending his supposed rights is another way of allowing him to continue his control.

freshpopcorn

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Does father Felim Kelly have any involvement in this I wonder?

I can't find anything on their website about who's on the BOM. It's not in there whole school evaluation either.(Only some schools list these tough).
The Board of Management consists of 8 members: Chairperson, 2 parent representatives, 2 teacher representatives, 2 members of the local community and a nomimee of Bishop Leo O’Reilly.

Nekarsulm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Does father Felim Kelly have any involvement in this I wonder?

Its Father Liam Kelly who pushed for AH to be buried with the victims " to keep the family together".
He's a Monsignor now....

Nekarsulm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

That’s English version of felim

Well, he called himself Liam when he married us, so that's what I know him as ....

Beechwoodspark

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Well, he called himself Liam when he married us, so that's what I know him as ....

http://www.inishmagrath.com/rededmass.html

2nd pic down

Front row. 2nd from right

Same guy?

Rubberchikken

Rubberchikken wrote: »

as he's dead, why can't her family be given access to the information their want? defending his supposed rights is another way of allowing him to continue his control.

The only one I can vaguely understand citing professional privilege is the Counsellor.

Once the Counsellor releases the notes, there's a strong risk their name will become public in the process, and impugn their professional reputation for having broken client confidentiality.

But the biggest risk here isn't even to the Counsellor themselves, and certainly not to Alan Hawe - but to the possibility that releasing client files might deter others from seeking counselling, or being fully honest with counsellors, when contemplating suicide or having intrusive thoughts that might cause them to harm others.

Mrsmum

Liam is irish for William. No connection to Felim as far as I know.

Nekarsulm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

http://www.inishmagrath.com/rededmass.html

2nd pic down

Front row. 2nd from right

Same guy?

Different guy, that lad is twenty years older at least.

https://www.catholicbishops.ie/2019/01/02/monsignor-liam-kelly-elected-diocesan-administrator-of-kilmore/

Beechwoodspark

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/memorial-mass-go-ahead-warped-11079307.amp

This is the fr felim Kelly I refer to. A “great friend” of the murderer.

“Fr Felim Kelly, who was a great friend of Hawe, helped arrange the funeral for the family and the joint burial. It took him until the month’s mind to say what Hawe did had been evil."

JonnyMarbles

retro:electro wrote: »

One of the most upsetting things I’ve ever watched. I’m glad we finally got to see a true representation of the man, a vile, abusive and narcissistic bully; and not the sympathetic portrayal that flooded the media in the aftermath. It didn’t even reference how he took his own life because who actually gives a shlt about what he did to himself. To take their lives is one thing, but what he did was overkill and savage slaughter. How anyone can take a hatchet to someone they claim to love, and he moved furniture weeks prior shows he had been planning it for a while. If there’s a hell I hope he’s rotting. Depression my hole. How insulting to many people who struggle with depression every day and don’t manage to annihilate their whole family.

And what about depressed people who jump in front of cars? Are they selfish?

Rubberchikken

certain information such as counsellor name could be withheld but her family should be given as much information as possible to help them deal with what must be a living nightmare .

if the dead cant be libeled then any conversations they had with a professional should be available to family.

retro:electro

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

And what about depressed people who jump in front of cars? Are they selfish?

Yes, anyone who puts the lives of innocent people at risk in order to justify their own ends is selfish. If you want to do away with yourself then do it in a way where you don’t take innocent people minding their own business and going about their lives away with you.

JonnyMarbles

retro:electro wrote: »

Yes, anyone who puts the lives of innocent people at risk in order to justify their own ends is selfish. If you want to do away with yourself then do it in a way where you don’t take innocent people minding their own business and going about their lives away with you.

Would be interested to hear the majority opinion on this then. Would think most people who kill themselves would be pitied as they're "not in their right mind"

Nekarsulm

Beechwoodspark,
I think the Mirror got the wrong name, tbh.
Liam Kelly was PP in Cross and Killenkere at the time he married us, and moved to Castlerahan before the Hawe murders took place.
These places are all within 8 or 9 miles of Ballyjamesduff where the Hawes lived.
He's still a youngish man, does a bit of 5k running and a bit of lake swimming for local tri events.
We were disgusted at the time of the funerals that he had pushed for them all to be buried together.

retro:electro

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

Would be interested to hear the majority opinion on this then. Would think most people who kill themselves would be pitied as they're "not in their right mind"

Of course I have sympathy for those who die by suicide. I’ve had members of my own family take their lives. My sympathy somewhat ceases however when you do it in a manner which puts the lives of others at risk, like in the example you mentioned. That opinion might not be popular but it’s how I feel. Anyway, what has this got to do with Alan Hawe?

iamwhoiam

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

And what about depressed people who jump in front of cars? Are they selfish?

Yes . They are self absorbed at that moment in time . My son witness a girl jump from a motorway bridge right in front of his car . He is still traumatised by the vision but he was lucky as two seconds later who knows the outcome for him .

RIP young lady

TCM

JonnyMarbles wrote:

And what about depressed people who jump in front of cars? Are they selfish?

They don't drag 4 other people with them.

lolie

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Beechwoodspark,
I think the Mirror got the wrong name, tbh.
Liam Kelly was PP in Cross and Killenkere at the time he married us, and moved to Castlerahan before the Hawe murders took place.
These places are all within 8 or 9 miles of Ballyjamesduff where the Hawes lived.
He's still a youngish man, does a bit of 5k running and a bit of lake swimming for local tri events.
We were disgusted at the time of the funerals that he had pushed for them all to be buried together.

Beachwoodpark is correct.
The person he pointed out in the picture is Fr Felim Kelly who was the PP in Castlerahan up until last year.

iamwhoiam

TCM wrote: »

They don't drag 4 other people with them.

They could well do though

Nekarsulm

Well Lolie and Beechwood, I apologise and stand corrected.
I've also harboured a grudge/ measure of contempt for the wrong man this last two years.
PS, feck, just realised I've also mixed up Castlerahan and Castletara...

zapitastas

lolie wrote: »

Beachwoodpark is correct.
The person he pointed out in the picture is Fr Felim Kelly who was the PP in Castlerahan up until last year.

Felim Kelly is now retired. Was pretty old when the events occurred.