Discovery 2x07 'Light and Shadows' [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Inviere

Inviere wrote: »

How do we define 'being watching' anyway? For me, it's 2 to 3 episodes in a row...not sure I could do a 4th.

I've done entire weekends to run through a show but I would more say that the show is hampered by a forced weekly release, as opposed to all episodes available to watching at the viewers discretion

Sad Professor

I can't remember the last show I binge watched. I've become suspicious of shows that encourage it and tend to give up on them. My Netflix profile is a graveyard of shows I abandoned after a few episodes. Watching Daredevil season 3 at the moment and still only watching one episode every 2 days.

Inviere

Sad Professor wrote: »

still only watching one episode every 2 days.

That's a nice pace though, it sits between 'binge!' and "I've to await another week for the next one??"

For me, if I'm really enjoying a show, I'll want to see lots of it. I only began a Game of Thrones watch there last year (first time watching it), and just couldn't get enough of it. If a show is well written enough that a week is a comfy gap, that's fine too. I feel though, for me anyway, Discovery S2 will benefit from a rewatch in a more condensed fashion. It worked for S1, I much more enjoyed it two eps per evening, as opposed to one per week.

pixelburp

This is getting away off topic, but I find 'binge friendly' shows can be a shorthand for 'frustratingly paced', where the absence of any kind of broadcasting timeslot or considerations towards commercial-breaks - and the presumption your audience will consume episodes in quick succession - means you get these baggy, lugubrious shows with almost zero forward momentum & just dawdle around for 13 episodes.

A lot of the Netflix Marvel shows were guilty of this: Luke Cage season 2 took it to the Nth degree and I gave up after 4 episodes of wheel spinning.

Goodshape

Sad Professor wrote: »

My Netflix profile is a graveyard of shows I abandoned after a few episodes.

Very much the same. I'll watch three or maybe four but then struggle to find another two or three hours in a row to do the next few, then it feels like a long time since, and everyone's moved on anyway, and I can't really remember where I left off because that forth episode was at like 3am... and I just forget about it until the next season "drops". By then, ugh... ~20 odd episodes in my queue? Nah. :shrug:

Also I'd miss all the craic and banter online after each episode. The time to digest and geek out over the canon references or rage at the destruction of my childhood (/s).

If it were all out in a day then it'd be a lot less fun. It'd be talked about for maybe a week or two, then it'd be totally gone again for another year or more.

And I'd miss yous guys


<on-topic-tax>

How about that Spock though, eh? Never warmed to Quinto at all to be honest. New guy shows promise! The voice was almost uncanny in a couple of brief scenes, although not so much in others. I wondered did they tweak it in post a bit!

</on-topic-tax>

fritzelly

So they're saying by series end everything will be back to canon again. Does that mean S31 gone

CramCycle

So I had been convincing myself that S31 could be talked out by some sort of need to know basis. As in Discovery is a starfleet intelligence ship, and S31 were assigned to their protection, and there were a load of NDAs signed. Now we hear the Ambassador and his wife talking about them as if they are as well known as the HSE in Ireland. No clue how they are going to write that out.

Inviere

CramCycle wrote: »

So I had been convincing myself that S31 could be talked out by some sort of need to know basis. As in Discovery is a starfleet intelligence ship, and S31 were assigned to their protection, and there were a load of NDAs signed. Now we hear the Ambassador and his wife talking about them as if they are as well known as the HSE in Ireland. No clue how they are going to write that out.

Yep, the handling of S31 has been probably the most annoying thing in season 2 for me. They've gone full 'Borg' on Section 31.

AMKC

CramCycle wrote: »

So I had been convincing myself that S31 could be talked out by some sort of need to know basis. As in Discovery is a starfleet intelligence ship, and S31 were assigned to their protection, and there were a load of NDAs signed. Now we hear the Ambassador and his wife talking about them as if they are as well known as the HSE in Ireland. No clue how they are going to write that out.

Maybe they will use the mind probe on them to make them forget or just say if you say or tell anyone about us we are watching you and will come and kill you but make it look like it was some accident.

nyarlothothep

I try to resist bingeing when I like a show as it's over all too soon. In fact the more I like a show the more I will deliberately space it out to savour it like a fine wine. BSG was like that. The Punisher and Daredevil are others. Watching shows colours my day, the world of the show in question overlaps to some extent with reality and this is why I don't binge.

CramCycle

AMKC wrote: »

Maybe they will use the mind probe on them to make them forget or just say if you say or tell anyone about us we are watching you and will come and kill you but make it look like it was some accident.

Still doesn't fly, they are talking about them as if they are-some sort of special ops team that everyone knows about but doesn't fully get. I thought they had done well to row back on a few over enthusiastic changes of season one but S31 is difficult to align with the rest of the show.
Im still enjoying it and if I didn't kNow about S31 before it would be easier to swallow

Brief_Lives

Blazer wrote: »

To me the story line is far inferior to Season 1. I'm actually trying to remember if the mirror universe was s1 or s2 it seems that long ago. I know now its S2 but once they got back my god the story sucked. And as for the Spock rubbish and Amanda.
Tilly is seriously annoying me now. Even Stammets is off-putting.
Suru for the last few 2-3 episodes has definitely seem off and his speech seems to be more stilted as if he's having difficulty remembering his lines.
I did like the Suru oriented episode. Hated the Tilly one.

agree with all this....

Rawr

Blazer wrote: »

Tilly is seriously annoying me now. Even Stammets is off-putting.

This is something I'm not enjoying either.
I really liked Tilly in S1, and I didn't really mind Stammets at all.

But here in Season 2, they've somehow wrecked Tilly and Stammets is indeed very offputing. And to boot, they are usual paired together to solve stuff for the plot.
When the whole time hole stuff started to happen in this episode, I was pretty much on board and looking forward to what was going to happen. (Let's ignore that boring Pike & Ash interaction for now).

Pike & Ash get into trouble in the time hole and then:

Tilly: Hey wait! Isn't the Mycelial Network a plot-resolving macguffin that is *exactly* what we need to resolve this and many other problems?

[Stammets suddenly magics himself onto the bridge]

Stammets: Diiiiiid somebody say Mycelial Network?

Bridge Crew: Yay!!!

As soon as that Mycelial Network got mentioned I was out of that plot thread. I just didn't care about it any more. Enough with the spore-drive stuff dammit...it's no fun no more

liamtech

it really is very polarized atm..

Im a very Pro Discovery Fan, but REALLY hated the last episode.. and i am dreading this weeks, as we see how the muck about with the Talosians - also section 31, is annoying the hell out of me! I can now imagine their recruitment as:

DO YOU CARE ABOUT THE FEDERATION AND ITS MORAL PRINCIPLES!!!
ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT FEDERATION SECURITY!!!
THEN FEAR NOT! JOIN SECTION 31!

A SUPER SECRET ORGANIZATION THAT WE ALL KNOW ABOUT, BUT PRETEND NOT TO, AND THAT DOESNT OFFICIALLY EXIST DESPITE BEING ADVERTISED ON THIS POSTER!

We at Section 31 fully believe in Freedom, Liberty, and Ethics, and will Disregard the above mentioned principles IN ORDER, to protect them!!! Do you have what it takes to join Section 31!!

ATTEND OUR SUPER TOP SECRET RECRUITMENT STAND, IN OUR ULTRA SENSITIVE HEADQUARTERS THAT DOESNT ACTUALLY EXIST ANYWHERE BUT IN THE MINDS OF OUR TOP AGENTS, AND, THE BUILDING AROUND THE CORNER FROM STARFLEET SECURITY!! (it says S31 on the door and features a logo of a man holding the federation charter in one hand, and a severed head in the other, you cant miss it, trust us )

ALL that aside.. i have a friend who HATED series one, and absolutely loves this season.. Pike.. the Talosians.. he is super stoked..

VERY polarized

I don't know how they can do any damage to that Talosians, as we have seen them in one (and highlights) episode. We know next to nothing about them. In fact we might find out why a death sentence order is place on going to that planet

pixelburp

It's probably Burnham; the two humans the Talosians have met were Burnham and Pike, humanity might be given the benefit of the doubt over Pike, but Burnhm's just the worst - I'd condemn the species too had I a bulbous brain

liamtech

pixelburp wrote: »

It's probably Burnham; the two humans the Talosians have met were Burnham and Pike, humanity might be given the benefit of the doubt over Pike, but Burnhm's just the worst - I'd condemn the species too had I a bulbous brain

Thats a good point in fairness - but i just dont get why you bring them in at all - If the point is that we get to se whats in spocks head, then why not have sarek meld with him?

It honestly feels a bit like 'what can we do to reference other series and episodes' -

See again, i am not a nay sayer, and im not one to moan on about how it isnt REAL star trek.. But that said, this really does feel very contrived

The reason i say opinion is polarized is that people are finding different faults and issues with the show.

Canon issues - holographic comms.. advanced technology, holodecks, etc etc - i honestly dont mind these - NX01 looked WAY too advanced by comparison to TOS era Constitution class ships - but i accept it times have changed.

Section 31 being as well known as the KGB or the CIA.. that to me is more serious

Character issues.. Some love Tilly some hate her - im the later at this stage

If there is one thing i have seen repeatedly that everyone seems to agree on its that Burnham is WAY WAY WAY too prominant, and many dont like her.

I am undoubtedly going to keep watching it, theres no question. Its way better than Enterprise was at this stage of its development - i just really hope the writers bring it together properly -

One interesting theory a mate has is that the red angels have something to do with romulans - from the future, who are mucking about in an effort to save their planet, as opposed to JJ TREKS 'Crazy Romulans' seeking revenge - the advanced 'EVIL' future probe did have visual similarities to the Nerada, or what ever that romulan future ship was called

Rawr

liamtech wrote: »

If there is one thing i have seen repeatedly that everyone seems to agree on its that Burnham is WAY WAY WAY too prominant, and many dont like her.

I am undoubtedly going to keep watching it, theres no question. Its way better than Enterprise was at this stage of its development - i just really hope the writers bring it together properly -

I have a strong dislike for Burnham's character which is partly born out of poor direction of the character, but also a sense of a horribly missed opportunity.

We are used to having Trek shows being ensemble-style Crew + Captain type shows. I can understand the appeal of trying something new with a character-centric show, focusing on one person and building the story around that person. Such a thing has the potential of being very awesome.

Michael could have actually been a really good window into the Star Trek universe, and provide a less polished experience of Starfleet life where she would have to earn the trust of those around her gradually while we got to know her better. But for any of that to work we'd have to like her first, and I think that's where they screwed up.

They tried to set her up as a Human-Vulcan...which just made her appear as some kind of jerk...not listening to her Captain...and starting a war where said Captain becomes Klingon-lunch. Nice...kind of hard to like her after that.

Alright then...maybe she feels sorry about the war and wants to learn from that experience? Nah...let's instead act all angry and off-putting, lashing out at anyone who tries to be nice to her....again, hard to like her....

Alright then...how about we follow her while she tries to rebuild her confidence and allow us empathise with that struggle (and egg her on...)...Nah! Let's fill out a few squares on the Mary Stu bingo-card and make her an automatic expert in loads of stuff!!! Ugh....hard to like a know-it-all...unless you already liked them to begin with (ala Spock or Data).

The list could go on...but hope it doesn't. Part of me hopes that they realised their error and will stop leaning into it. Luckily there is an ensemble in Discovery that can work, they just need to ditch the Main Character angle and go back into ensemble style writing. It was worth a shot...but think they need to just count their losses here and go with what is good.

FGR

If they can resolve the issues with a) constantly using the mycelial network makey uppy and spore drive as a plot device as it makes no sense in star trek canon. At least the warp drives attempted to have some sort of engineering mumbo jumbo to justify them as opposed to magic and b) they don't make the red angel Tilly/Burnham then we'll be doing well.

Otherwise I enjoy the show. Burnham is a plothole herself given the lack of any references by Sarek/Spock in the other series nor anyone else given her involvement in the Kingon War at both its beginning and end. You would think Sybok (another anomaly) would have referred to her at some stage when interacting with Spock but..ah well.

FGR

FGR wrote: »

Burnham is a plothole herself given the lack of any references by Sarek/Spock in the other series nor anyone else given her involvement in the Kingon War at both its beginning and end. You would think Sybok (another anomaly) would have referred to her at some stage when interacting with Spock but..ah well.

You call her a plothole then reference Spock's half brother who was not mentioned in canon TV/Animated shows or 4 previous films


Or even in any non canon material Comics/Books.

FGR

Deleted User wrote: »

You call her a plothole then reference Spock's half brother who was not mentioned in canon TV/Animated shows or 4 previous films


Or even in any non canon material Comics/Books.

Hence why I call him another anomaly! :pac:

FGR

FGR wrote: »

Hence why I call him another anomaly! :pac:

I get that but it just shows that Spock does not talk about his family all that much (or we have just not been privy to him mentioning Michael)
I never liked the idea that she was Spock's "sister" but it does not break anything in canon

pixelburp

Heck, IIRC the episode we originally meet Sarek in TOS, his introduction is a literal surprise and news to everyone; no one knew it was his father until Spock was forced to admit it.

Wedding itself to trappings of the Enterprise era is one thing, but Burnham being the unspoken sibling is entirely in keeping with a character who never bothered revealing personal history unless absolutely necessary.

And Sybok was just a mistake, one Trek is happy to pretend never happened. Including Discovery it seems. Though it'd be hilarious if he got namechecked in an episode, forever confirming his existence in canon.

FreudianSlippers

fritzelly wrote: »

It gets "worse and worse" and yet you still keep watching - boggles the mind that someone goes out of their way to spend 40-50 minutes watching something they don't abhor with a passion

They also go out of their way to ****post about Discovery on other threads. Nothing but a troll... a poor one at that.